Creighton Game Thread

I just watched it. Heard Doug was outscoring us 28-27 and was expecting to see a rout. What I saw was a team who for the most part looked like the better team who just lost to a better player. That kid made play after play. Now that doesnt mean I dont have some gripes. The first with the reffs; they took jordan from us right from the get go and he was looking like he was going to have a great game from the tip. Two really questionable fouls and one drive in which creighton slapped his arm so hard you could hear it on TV. No call. McDermott was getting away with elbows all night and that hook in the last minute was unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE. The reff was standing right there. That was followed by a bogus offensive foul call and a easily spotted illegal screen on the mcDermott three to win it. Now we did get some calls our way while we made our run but nothing which was game changing worthy.

Now for Lavin, why have Obekpa guarding him in that spot? 11 seconds left and they wont have time to set up a post play having to go the full court. Obekpa played great on him in the second but you dont want him following him full court. He was the one guy you cant leave and he did just that. That falls on Chris too.  Secondly, what was that play he drew up with 3 seconds left? No body moved. You set up a play where rysheed gets the ball on the run and he realistically can get to the 3 point line and put up a decent look. Instead he was sitting underneath the far rim.

Tough one to lose. Believe it or not, we win that game and we were back on the bubble.

I just watched it. Heard Doug was outscoring us 28-27 and was expecting to see a rout. What I saw was a team who for the most part looked like the better team who just lost to a better player. That kid made play after play. Now that doesnt mean I dont have some gripes. The first with the reffs; they took jordan from us right from the get go and he was looking like he was going to have a great game from the tip. Two really questionable fouls and one drive in which creighton slapped his arm so hard you could hear it on TV. No call. McDermott was getting away with elbows all night and that hook in the last minute was unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE. The reff was standing right there. That was followed by a bogus offensive foul call and a easily spotted illegal screen on the mcDermott three to win it. Now we did get some calls our way while we made our run but nothing which was game changing worthy.

Now for Lavin, why have Obekpa guarding him in that spot? 11 seconds left and they wont have time to set up a post play having to go the full court. Obekpa played great on him in the second but you dont want him following him full court. He was the one guy you cant leave and he did just that. That falls on Chris too.  Secondly, what was that play he drew up with 3 seconds left? No body moved. You set up a play where rysheed gets the ball on the run and he realistically can get to the 3 point line and put up a decent look. Instead he was sitting underneath the far rim.

Tough one to lose. Believe it or not, we win that game and we were back on the bubble.

Winning that game wouldn't have put us on the bubble. It would have given us a chance to play our way onto the bubble where as now we have no chance

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 29, 2014, 12:17:14 AM

I just watched it. Heard Doug was outscoring us 28-27 and was expecting to see a rout. What I saw was a team who for the most part looked like the better team who just lost to a better player. That kid made play after play. Now that doesnt mean I dont have some gripes. The first with the reffs; they took jordan from us right from the get go and he was looking like he was going to have a great game from the tip. Two really questionable fouls and one drive in which creighton slapped his arm so hard you could hear it on TV. No call. McDermott was getting away with elbows all night and that hook in the last minute was unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE. The reff was standing right there. That was followed by a bogus offensive foul call and a easily spotted illegal screen on the mcDermott three to win it. Now we did get some calls our way while we made our run but nothing which was game changing worthy.

Now for Lavin, why have Obekpa guarding him in that spot? 11 seconds left and they wont have time to set up a post play having to go the full court. Obekpa played great on him in the second but you dont want him following him full court. He was the one guy you cant leave and he did just that. That falls on Chris too.  Secondly, what was that play he drew up with 3 seconds left? No body moved. You set up a play where rysheed gets the ball on the run and he realistically can get to the 3 point line and put up a decent look. Instead he was sitting underneath the far rim.

Tough one to lose. Believe it or not, we win that game and we were back on the bubble.

Winning that game wouldn't have put us on the bubble. It would have given us a chance to play our way onto the bubble where as now we have no chance

20 on the road. Think we would have been low 60's RPI. Maybe your right and that isnt the bubble but I think thats where we would have been.

Last shot easily could have been a 4-point play too.

Last shot easily could have been a 4-point play too.

Or a moving screen.

No call was probably the right call.

Even though we lost still a saw positives.  Jordan's play getting so much better, a 20-2 run to tie the game and CO putting in some minutes and showing some offense.  Again the one thing that really bothers me is the 9% shooting from 3 point range.  You are just not going to compete at this level only making 1 three point shot.  Somehow, somewhere next yr, we need to find a consistent 3 point shooter.  This is what college basketball has become I hate what if but if we shot 25% from 3's tonite we win

I just watched it. Heard Doug was outscoring us 28-27 and was expecting to see a rout. What I saw was a team who for the most part looked like the better team who just lost to a better player. That kid made play after play. Now that doesnt mean I dont have some gripes. The first with the reffs; they took jordan from us right from the get go and he was looking like he was going to have a great game from the tip. Two really questionable fouls and one drive in which creighton slapped his arm so hard you could hear it on TV. No call. McDermott was getting away with elbows all night and that hook in the last minute was unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE. The reff was standing right there. That was followed by a bogus offensive foul call and a easily spotted illegal screen on the mcDermott three to win it. Now we did get some calls our way while we made our run but nothing which was game changing worthy.




Now for Lavin, why have Obekpa guarding him in that spot? 11 seconds left and they wont have time to set up a post play having to go the full court. Obekpa played great on him in the second but you dont want him following him full court. He was the one guy you cant leave and he did just that. That falls on Chris too.  Secondly, what was that play he drew up with 3 seconds left? No body moved. You set up a play where rysheed gets the ball on the run and he realistically can get to the 3 point line and put up a decent look. Instead he was sitting underneath the far rim.

Tough one to lose. Believe it or not, we win that game and we were back on the bubble.

Upstate see above. Here is the correct view. Obekpa is our best bid defender in the paint, not in a full court last second going the length of the floor situation. Had creighton had Doug take the ball up the court when they saw obekpa on him he would have easily dribbled past obekpa into the lane where you are now hoping a help defender can somehow stop him without fouling.

Why is the logic of this so hard to comprehend?  You're right about one thing though, I would've rather seen dom on him in that specific situation.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 29, 2014, 12:17:14 AM

I just watched it. Heard Doug was outscoring us 28-27 and was expecting to see a rout. What I saw was a team who for the most part looked like the better team who just lost to a better player. That kid made play after play. Now that doesnt mean I dont have some gripes. The first with the reffs; they took jordan from us right from the get go and he was looking like he was going to have a great game from the tip. Two really questionable fouls and one drive in which creighton slapped his arm so hard you could hear it on TV. No call. McDermott was getting away with elbows all night and that hook in the last minute was unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE. The reff was standing right there. That was followed by a bogus offensive foul call and a easily spotted illegal screen on the mcDermott three to win it. Now we did get some calls our way while we made our run but nothing which was game changing worthy.




Now for Lavin, why have Obekpa guarding him in that spot? 11 seconds left and they wont have time to set up a post play having to go the full court. Obekpa played great on him in the second but you dont want him following him full court. He was the one guy you cant leave and he did just that. That falls on Chris too.  Secondly, what was that play he drew up with 3 seconds left? No body moved. You set up a play where rysheed gets the ball on the run and he realistically can get to the 3 point line and put up a decent look. Instead he was sitting underneath the far rim.

Tough one to lose. Believe it or not, we win that game and we were back on the bubble.

Upstate see above. Here is the correct view. Obekpa is our best bid defender in the paint, not in a full court last second going the length of the floor situation. Had creighton had Doug take the ball up the court when they saw obekpa on him he would have easily dribbled past obekpa into the lane where you are now hoping a help defender can somehow stop him without fouling.

Why is the logic of this so hard to comprehend?  You're right about one thing though, I would've rather seen dom on him in that specific situation.

I guarantee if Dom was on him we would've lost on a foul.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 29, 2014, 12:17:14 AM

I just watched it. Heard Doug was outscoring us 28-27 and was expecting to see a rout. What I saw was a team who for the most part looked like the better team who just lost to a better player. That kid made play after play. Now that doesnt mean I dont have some gripes. The first with the reffs; they took jordan from us right from the get go and he was looking like he was going to have a great game from the tip. Two really questionable fouls and one drive in which creighton slapped his arm so hard you could hear it on TV. No call. McDermott was getting away with elbows all night and that hook in the last minute was unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE. The reff was standing right there. That was followed by a bogus offensive foul call and a easily spotted illegal screen on the mcDermott three to win it. Now we did get some calls our way while we made our run but nothing which was game changing worthy.




Now for Lavin, why have Obekpa guarding him in that spot? 11 seconds left and they wont have time to set up a post play having to go the full court. Obekpa played great on him in the second but you dont want him following him full court. He was the one guy you cant leave and he did just that. That falls on Chris too.  Secondly, what was that play he drew up with 3 seconds left? No body moved. You set up a play where rysheed gets the ball on the run and he realistically can get to the 3 point line and put up a decent look. Instead he was sitting underneath the far rim.

Tough one to lose. Believe it or not, we win that game and we were back on the bubble.

Upstate see above. Here is the correct view. Obekpa is our best bid defender in the paint, not in a full court last second going the length of the floor situation. Had creighton had Doug take the ball up the court when they saw obekpa on him he would have easily dribbled past obekpa into the lane where you are now hoping a help defender can somehow stop him without fouling.

Why is the logic of this so hard to comprehend?  You're right about one thing though, I would've rather seen dom on him in that specific situation.

Haha...because someone else agreed with you, I'm wrong?  You won't be able to convince me that Lavin was in the wrong for having CO on Dougie.  Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. 

Playing devils advocate with your logic....what has Jakarr shown on defense in his entire carreer at St.John's that would give you confidence that he should have been on Dougie?

There was no denying of Doug tonite.  Even if Jordan scores with no call at the end of the game, Doug would've came down and drained a 3 with 5 guys on him. 

Probably the right assignment. Jakaar played good defense on mcd all night, but he still managed to shoot over him.  With little time on the clock, I like the idea of obekpa's hand in his face or potentially blocking the shot (which he did earlier in the game). Obekpa just drifted inexplicably.  That said, very little chance any sort of defense stops mcd in that spot, if they did he would probably get a foul call. The real killer was the charge call on rysheed. He had the defender on his heels and out of control. Clear block.  (Also, I don't like the whole "well, all we had to do was make threes or score earlier in the half." We have no idea what happens if we do, butterfly effect and all. However, there is a very direct impact on our chances of winning if that call does not go against rysheed. That was the game.)

(Also, I don't like the whole "well, all we had to do was make threes or score earlier in the half." We have no idea what happens if we do, butterfly effect and all.

Really?  So if we scored more points (i.e., made more than 69% of our FT's, or hit more than 1 out of 10 3's), it would have had no impact on our chance of winning at the end of a tight game because of the "butterfly effect"?  Sorry, but I don't buy that at all.  We went almost 9 minutes in the second half without scoring a single bucket.  We created a huge hole against an excellent team on their court that we almost dug ourselves out of, and we picked up a few breaks along the way (no travel call against Obekpa), but we came up short in the end.  Yes, the Jordan charge call was bs, but we still could have overcome that if we covered McD on the last shot.  FWIW, I watched the post-game interview with McDermott, and even he said he was shocked that he was open on the last play.  He was not alone.     

So often folks reference the fact we can beat anybody on a given day. Is the reverse not true? We could lose to any BE opponent and have proven that. As a passionate fan, I must also accept that our margin of error in any game is razor thin. Our ineptitude in the areas of perimeter shooting & half court offense always presents itself and results in scoring droughts. If we can only generate offense through turnovers and steals,  we remain very vulnerable and a team that is easy to prepare for. Take away our uncontested lay ups and we may be shooting at a scary %.

Quote from: redmen not storm on January 29, 2014, 01:19:08 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 29, 2014, 12:17:14 AM

I just watched it. Heard Doug was outscoring us 28-27 and was expecting to see a rout. What I saw was a team who for the most part looked like the better team who just lost to a better player. That kid made play after play. Now that doesnt mean I dont have some gripes. The first with the reffs; they took jordan from us right from the get go and he was looking like he was going to have a great game from the tip. Two really questionable fouls and one drive in which creighton slapped his arm so hard you could hear it on TV. No call. McDermott was getting away with elbows all night and that hook in the last minute was unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE. The reff was standing right there. That was followed by a bogus offensive foul call and a easily spotted illegal screen on the mcDermott three to win it. Now we did get some calls our way while we made our run but nothing which was game changing worthy.




Now for Lavin, why have Obekpa guarding him in that spot? 11 seconds left and they wont have time to set up a post play having to go the full court. Obekpa played great on him in the second but you dont want him following him full court. He was the one guy you cant leave and he did just that. That falls on Chris too.  Secondly, what was that play he drew up with 3 seconds left? No body moved. You set up a play where rysheed gets the ball on the run and he realistically can get to the 3 point line and put up a decent look. Instead he was sitting underneath the far rim.

Tough one to lose. Believe it or not, we win that game and we were back on the bubble.

Upstate see above. Here is the correct view. Obekpa is our best bid defender in the paint, not in a full court last second going the length of the floor situation. Had creighton had Doug take the ball up the court when they saw obekpa on him he would have easily dribbled past obekpa into the lane where you are now hoping a help defender can somehow stop him without fouling.

Why is the logic of this so hard to comprehend?  You're right about one thing though, I would've rather seen dom on him in that specific situation.

I guarantee if Dom was on him we would've lost on a foul.

Probably before the ball was inbounded. Man he may play hard, but if Dom was an opponent we would call him a chippy thug who doesn't play smart.

Quote from: apesNapes on January 29, 2014, 07:33:48 AM

(Also, I don't like the whole "well, all we had to do was make threes or score earlier in the half." We have no idea what happens if we do, butterfly effect and all.

Really?  So if we scored more points (i.e., made more than 69% of our FT's, or hit more than 1 out of 10 3's), it would have had no impact on our chance of winning at the end of a tight game because of the "butterfly effect"?  Sorry, but I don't buy that at all.  We went almost 9 minutes in the second half without scoring a single bucket.  We created a huge hole against an excellent team on their court that we almost dug ourselves out of, and we picked up a few breaks along the way (no travel call against Obekpa), but we came up short in the end.  Yes, the Jordan charge call was bs, but we still could have overcome that if we covered McD on the last shot.  FWIW, I watched the post-game interview with McDermott, and even he said he was shocked that he was open on the last play.  He was not alone.     

Obviously if we score more points than them we win, that's not the point.  If we score more early in the half and hit threes, who's to say we don't then have a drought at the end of the half or that our defense suffers as a result or that they push things on offense and score more?  Too many variables to point to one facet of the game and say "if we change x then y."  They might increase our chances, but the effect isn't as strong/predictable.  However, as you get later in the game those "if x then y" become much more predictable.  I know some people don't like math/logic in sports, but that's just how it is.

This one still stings this morning.

Cant shoot foul shots, cant shoot 3's - this team has to work way too hard for its points. The lack of a pure shooter is such a detriment to this team.

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on January 29, 2014, 01:21:09 AM

Quote from: redmen not storm on January 29, 2014, 01:19:08 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 29, 2014, 12:17:14 AM

I just watched it. Heard Doug was outscoring us 28-27 and was expecting to see a rout. What I saw was a team who for the most part looked like the better team who just lost to a better player. That kid made play after play. Now that doesnt mean I dont have some gripes. The first with the reffs; they took jordan from us right from the get go and he was looking like he was going to have a great game from the tip. Two really questionable fouls and one drive in which creighton slapped his arm so hard you could hear it on TV. No call. McDermott was getting away with elbows all night and that hook in the last minute was unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE. The reff was standing right there. That was followed by a bogus offensive foul call and a easily spotted illegal screen on the mcDermott three to win it. Now we did get some calls our way while we made our run but nothing which was game changing worthy.




Now for Lavin, why have Obekpa guarding him in that spot? 11 seconds left and they wont have time to set up a post play having to go the full court. Obekpa played great on him in the second but you dont want him following him full court. He was the one guy you cant leave and he did just that. That falls on Chris too.  Secondly, what was that play he drew up with 3 seconds left? No body moved. You set up a play where rysheed gets the ball on the run and he realistically can get to the 3 point line and put up a decent look. Instead he was sitting underneath the far rim.

Tough one to lose. Believe it or not, we win that game and we were back on the bubble.

Upstate see above. Here is the correct view. Obekpa is our best bid defender in the paint, not in a full court last second going the length of the floor situation. Had creighton had Doug take the ball up the court when they saw obekpa on him he would have easily dribbled past obekpa into the lane where you are now hoping a help defender can somehow stop him without fouling.

Why is the logic of this so hard to comprehend?  You're right about one thing though, I would've rather seen dom on him in that specific situation.

I guarantee if Dom was on him we would've lost on a foul.

Probably before the ball was inbounded. Man he may play hard, but if Dom was an opponent we would call him a chippy thug who doesn't play smart.

Couldnt agree more Paultz. It is getting ridiculous.

Quote from: redmen not storm on January 29, 2014, 01:19:08 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 29, 2014, 12:17:14 AM

I just watched it. Heard Doug was outscoring us 28-27 and was expecting to see a rout. What I saw was a team who for the most part looked like the better team who just lost to a better player. That kid made play after play. Now that doesnt mean I dont have some gripes. The first with the reffs; they took jordan from us right from the get go and he was looking like he was going to have a great game from the tip. Two really questionable fouls and one drive in which creighton slapped his arm so hard you could hear it on TV. No call. McDermott was getting away with elbows all night and that hook in the last minute was unbelievable. UNBELIEVABLE. The reff was standing right there. That was followed by a bogus offensive foul call and a easily spotted illegal screen on the mcDermott three to win it. Now we did get some calls our way while we made our run but nothing which was game changing worthy.




Now for Lavin, why have Obekpa guarding him in that spot? 11 seconds left and they wont have time to set up a post play having to go the full court. Obekpa played great on him in the second but you dont want him following him full court. He was the one guy you cant leave and he did just that. That falls on Chris too.  Secondly, what was that play he drew up with 3 seconds left? No body moved. You set up a play where rysheed gets the ball on the run and he realistically can get to the 3 point line and put up a decent look. Instead he was sitting underneath the far rim.

Tough one to lose. Believe it or not, we win that game and we were back on the bubble.

Upstate see above. Here is the correct view. Obekpa is our best bid defender in the paint, not in a full court last second going the length of the floor situation. Had creighton had Doug take the ball up the court when they saw obekpa on him he would have easily dribbled past obekpa into the lane where you are now hoping a help defender can somehow stop him without fouling.

Why is the logic of this so hard to comprehend?  You're right about one thing though, I would've rather seen dom on him in that specific situation.

Haha...because someone else agreed with you, I'm wrong?  You won't be able to convince me that Lavin was in the wrong for having CO on Dougie.  Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. 

Playing devils advocate with your logic....what has Jakarr shown on defense in his entire carreer at St.John's that would give you confidence that he should have been on Dougie?

The fact that Obekpa left the best senior in the country open for a three cant convince you? That is the one thing you cannot do. You stick to him like glue.

Last shot easily could have been a 4-point play too.

In fairness, it could've been a moving screen against the offense as well.