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Contract Extension

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Moose

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #200 on: March 07, 2014, 05:27:40 PM »
Quote from: SJUFAN on March 07, 2014, 04:00:27 PM
Quote from: Moose on March 07, 2014, 09:32:38 AM
Quote from: TONYD3 on March 07, 2014, 09:24:14 AM
Serious question. Are Dieaollo, Richards, govan, and briscoe better prospects then our current players? If not how can we expect better results?

Diallo, Govan and Briscoe are all Top 50 players in 2015.  Now rankings are a crapshoot many times.  You need to build the right team and work around deficiencies in certain players games.  They are deserving of their ranking.  How it translates at the next level is the other side of the sword.

Its not a question of if they are more talented, although a case could be made that they are. The point is they will not have to carry the load from day one and will have upper classmen to play with. JK, CO, Hooper will be seniors. Jordan, Jones, Felix will be Juniors. This years class will be sophmores. I haven't seen anything out of JS to think he is not a four year player. Ofcourse that could change, but right now until they declare, they will be here for four years. Jordan I could see leaving after his junior year.

Think about our 2015 team if JK, CO, and Jordan are still here. Thats is what good programs builds toward, and its a real good chance that may happen. Begining next year going forward we finally get to see our upper classmen lead the way. 

Karr a senior?
Ha
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bball purist

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #201 on: March 07, 2014, 05:32:44 PM »
Quote from: goredmen on March 07, 2014, 03:41:39 PM
Quote from: Moose on March 07, 2014, 03:38:46 PM
Good job HNK.  Congrats on the deal.  What is the agent cut?  Is it still 5%?

I was just going to post something similar. HNK must be Purnell's agent too. He's a miracle worker
Oliver is the new Norm.  He will ride off in the sunset to his retirement because DePaul does not want to buy him out.
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paultzman

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #202 on: March 07, 2014, 06:22:49 PM »
"Lavin made a little more than $2 million in total compensation between June 2011 and June 2012, according to the University’s most recent tax return" - See more at: http://www.torchonline.com/sports/2014/03/07/lavin-extension-talks-ongoing/#sthash.ppjgh7ip.dpuf
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desco80

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #203 on: March 07, 2014, 09:18:23 PM »
"Moving in the right direction", means he shouldn't get fired.   You should have to actually accomplish something to get an extension.    An extension is essentially a raise.   

Our fans want Lavin to succeed so badly that they regularly defend him by pointing to his media friendly personality and recruiting success with Briscoe/Diallo/Govan.   Think about how telling that is.   If he deserved an extension there would be concrete accomplishments to point at.


Coaching SJU must be the least pressurized coaching job in D1.   They're giving the coach an extension before he's done anything.
If this goes through Lavin is getting a Participation Award that comes with a $2.5mil/yr prize.
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redstorm212

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #204 on: March 07, 2014, 09:46:16 PM »
Quote from: desco80 on March 07, 2014, 09:18:23 PM
"Moving in the right direction", means he shouldn't get fired.   You should have to actually accomplish something to get an extension.    An extension is essentially a raise.   

Our fans want Lavin to succeed so badly that they regularly defend him by pointing to his media friendly personality and recruiting success with Briscoe/Diallo/Govan.   Think about how telling that is.   If he deserved an extension there would be concrete accomplishments to point at.


Coaching SJU must be the least pressurized coaching job in D1.   They're giving the coach an extension before he's done anything.
If this goes through Lavin is getting a Participation Award that comes with a $2.5mil/yr prize.

He actually got us our first tournament appearance in a decade. And has us in the hunt for another. Considering where SJU was before he took over, I'd say that's an accomplishment.

I had almost forgot what a 20 win season was before Lavin took over.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 09:47:23 PM by redstorm212 »
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rdstr25

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #205 on: March 07, 2014, 09:52:59 PM »
The extension goes above and beyond what Lavin has done on the court record wise.  I don't have exact numbers but I would bet attendance is up and so are ticket sales.  Now I know a lot will argue attendance stinks, which it mostly does, but we can all agree it's better than what we have had with the regime before him.. I will also bet sju  is the most watched college basketball team in big east on fox sports.  That says a lot in the eyes of the guys cutting his checks.  Sju basketball has forever carried the university sports funding wise and forever will, and Lavin has reinvented the program, not only with talent but with good kids as well.

I, like everyone else want this team in tourney, and still think they have enough in tank to make it this yr.  I also believe, whatever presentation lavin did for the powers at be in their contract discussions, had to do with who he believes will be on this team come next august and beyond.  Which tells me Lavin has preached, their will be even better talent suiting up for us in the upcoming years.
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desco80

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #206 on: March 07, 2014, 10:35:10 PM »
Quote from: redstorm212 on March 07, 2014, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: desco80 on March 07, 2014, 09:18:23 PM
"Moving in the right direction", means he shouldn't get fired.   You should have to actually accomplish something to get an extension.    An extension is essentially a raise.   

Our fans want Lavin to succeed so badly that they regularly defend him by pointing to his media friendly personality and recruiting success with Briscoe/Diallo/Govan.   Think about how telling that is.   If he deserved an extension there would be concrete accomplishments to point at.


Coaching SJU must be the least pressurized coaching job in D1.   They're giving the coach an extension before he's done anything.
If this goes through Lavin is getting a Participation Award that comes with a $2.5mil/yr prize.

He actually got us our first tournament appearance in a decade. And has us in the hunt for another. Considering where SJU was before he took over, I'd say that's an accomplishment.

I had almost forgot what a 20 win season was before Lavin took over.

True, and that is something.  But I think that's proof that he hasn't failed.  It offsets the past 2 subpar seasons.    But that puts him at about even now, no?  He hasn't been bad, maybe a little above average.  But it doesn't scream "oh wow, this guy definitely is pushing the right buttons".
He might be, but I don't know how anyone can tell that yet. 


And rdstr25 I think you're giving him credit for not being His predecessor.
There are other people who are not Norm Roberts, and could get 7k people to goto games at MSG.    And if you think Lavins argument in contract discussions was that there will be better talent suiting up in years ahead, isn't that a problem?  Shouldn't he be arguing what he's actually accomplished?    Again, you're giving reasons why he shouldn't be fired - that's not the same as winning, which gets you a raise and extension. 

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redstorm212

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #207 on: March 07, 2014, 10:41:24 PM »
Quote from: desco80 on March 07, 2014, 10:35:10 PM
Quote from: redstorm212 on March 07, 2014, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: desco80 on March 07, 2014, 09:18:23 PM
"Moving in the right direction", means he shouldn't get fired.   You should have to actually accomplish something to get an extension.    An extension is essentially a raise.   

Our fans want Lavin to succeed so badly that they regularly defend him by pointing to his media friendly personality and recruiting success with Briscoe/Diallo/Govan.   Think about how telling that is.   If he deserved an extension there would be concrete accomplishments to point at.


Coaching SJU must be the least pressurized coaching job in D1.   They're giving the coach an extension before he's done anything.
If this goes through Lavin is getting a Participation Award that comes with a $2.5mil/yr prize.

He actually got us our first tournament appearance in a decade. And has us in the hunt for another. Considering where SJU was before he took over, I'd say that's an accomplishment.

I had almost forgot what a 20 win season was before Lavin took over.

True, and that is something.  But I think that's proof that he hasn't failed.  It offsets the past 2 subpar seasons.    But that puts him at about even now, no?  He hasn't been bad, maybe a little above average.  But it doesn't scream "oh wow, this guy definitely is pushing the right buttons".
He might be, but I don't know how anyone can tell that yet. 


And rdstr25 I think you're giving him credit for not being His predecessor.
There are other people who are not Norm Roberts, and could get 7k people to goto games at MSG.    And if you think Lavins argument in contract discussions was that there will be better talent suiting up in years ahead, isn't that a problem?  Shouldn't he be arguing what he's actually accomplished?    Again, you're giving reasons why he shouldn't be fired - that's not the same as winning, which gets you a raise and extension. 



I see where you're coming from. But, I just think when you look at what SJU basketball was the decade before Lavin got here, and where it is now, an extension was warranted.
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desco80

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #208 on: March 07, 2014, 10:55:17 PM »
Quote from: redstorm212 on March 07, 2014, 10:41:24 PM
Quote from: desco80 on March 07, 2014, 10:35:10 PM
Quote from: redstorm212 on March 07, 2014, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: desco80 on March 07, 2014, 09:18:23 PM
"Moving in the right direction", means he shouldn't get fired.   You should have to actually accomplish something to get an extension.    An extension is essentially a raise.   

Our fans want Lavin to succeed so badly that they regularly defend him by pointing to his media friendly personality and recruiting success with Briscoe/Diallo/Govan.   Think about how telling that is.   If he deserved an extension there would be concrete accomplishments to point at.


Coaching SJU must be the least pressurized coaching job in D1.   They're giving the coach an extension before he's done anything.
If this goes through Lavin is getting a Participation Award that comes with a $2.5mil/yr prize.

He actually got us our first tournament appearance in a decade. And has us in the hunt for another. Considering where SJU was before he took over, I'd say that's an accomplishment.

I had almost forgot what a 20 win season was before Lavin took over.

True, and that is something.  But I think that's proof that he hasn't failed.  It offsets the past 2 subpar seasons.    But that puts him at about even now, no?  He hasn't been bad, maybe a little above average.  But it doesn't scream "oh wow, this guy definitely is pushing the right buttons".
He might be, but I don't know how anyone can tell that yet. 


And rdstr25 I think you're giving him credit for not being His predecessor.
There are other people who are not Norm Roberts, and could get 7k people to goto games at MSG.    And if you think Lavins argument in contract discussions was that there will be better talent suiting up in years ahead, isn't that a problem?  Shouldn't he be arguing what he's actually accomplished?    Again, you're giving reasons why he shouldn't be fired - that's not the same as winning, which gets you a raise and extension. 



I see where you're coming from. But, I just think when you look at what SJU basketball was the decade before Lavin got here, and where it is now, an extension was warranted.

You're right, I may overlook that.   And I'm sure that's part of the school's thinking, they know how bad things were and are glad we are out of the wilderness.

And at the end of the day I think this could be a moot point if the team can pickup where they were a few weeks ago.   Because my big problem is that Lavin can't say "I've done X, Y, and Z, that's why I deserve an extension. ". Well, as you point out, he does have those secondary accomplishments - an appearance, good recruiting classes etc.   and if they could pull off a conference tournament title, or win a few games and get a sweet 16 banner to hang...then hey, the picture looks much more complete.   Because I think hes done a lot of good stuff, but the big piece is missing - the winning part.   

Hope the Marquette game is the start of something special.
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rdstr25

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #209 on: March 07, 2014, 11:07:00 PM »
I agree, winning does get you the extension but at what degree for a school like sju? Is it his winning percentage, cause that's pretty good or is it based on tourny appearances, big east titles or record against rivals?  Now the latter 3 have a lot to be desired but no one actually knows what the president of university criteria is.. My guess is this was more about a business decision as opposed to just wins and losses.

Like any good presentation, a person leads with their strengths and finishes with how they can they can make the product better now and in the future, which is where I was going with the future players and recruiting...

I will also say that lavin can most certainly talk about the development of kids maturity under his wing and graduation rate of players that were seniors in his first year all the way to Marco, gift and Sanchez.   Not to mention, he is liked in community, by players and peers at university.  However like I said, at the end of day, IMO, I think the school feels at best with decision on more of a business standpoint than wins and loses.
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cjfish

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #210 on: March 07, 2014, 11:11:24 PM »
Quote from: redstorm212 on March 07, 2014, 10:41:24 PM
Quote from: desco80 on March 07, 2014, 10:35:10 PM
Quote from: redstorm212 on March 07, 2014, 09:46:16 PM
Quote from: desco80 on March 07, 2014, 09:18:23 PM
"Moving in the right direction", means he shouldn't get fired.   You should have to actually accomplish something to get an extension.    An extension is essentially a raise.   

Our fans want Lavin to succeed so badly that they regularly defend him by pointing to his media friendly personality and recruiting success with Briscoe/Diallo/Govan.   Think about how telling that is.   If he deserved an extension there would be concrete accomplishments to point at.


Coaching SJU must be the least pressurized coaching job in D1.   They're giving the coach an extension before he's done anything.
If this goes through Lavin is getting a Participation Award that comes with a $2.5mil/yr prize.

He actually got us our first tournament appearance in a decade. And has us in the hunt for another. Considering where SJU was before he took over, I'd say that's an accomplishment.

I had almost forgot what a 20 win season was before Lavin took over.

True, and that is something.  But I think that's proof that he hasn't failed.  It offsets the past 2 subpar seasons.    But that puts him at about even now, no?  He hasn't been bad, maybe a little above average.  But it doesn't scream "oh wow, this guy definitely is pushing the right buttons".
He might be, but I don't know how anyone can tell that yet. 


And rdstr25 I think you're giving him credit for not being His predecessor.
There are other people who are not Norm Roberts, and could get 7k people to goto games at MSG.    And if you think Lavins argument in contract discussions was that there will be better talent suiting up in years ahead, isn't that a problem?  Shouldn't he be arguing what he's actually accomplished?    Again, you're giving reasons why he shouldn't be fired - that's not the same as winning, which gets you a raise and extension. 



I see where you're coming from. But, I just think when you look at what SJU basketball was the decade before Lavin got here, and where it is now, an extension was warranted.
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cjfish

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #211 on: March 07, 2014, 11:18:40 PM »
Lavin may have been at the helm for the first torney in a decade but Roberts was the one who developed the team and handed it over to Lavin.  Do any of you really believe that in a 1/2 season Lavin developed the Kennedy team.....hardly....it was 3 years of hard work by Roberts who took a program in shambles and developed third tier players into a potential torney team.  Roberts is much maligned but, considering where Jarvis left SJU, he did a good job with mediocre players.  He got a raw deal and most of the people on this site continue to give him a raw deal.   
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SJUFAN

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #212 on: March 07, 2014, 11:22:44 PM »
Quote from: Moose on March 07, 2014, 05:27:40 PM
Quote from: SJUFAN on March 07, 2014, 04:00:27 PM
Quote from: Moose on March 07, 2014, 09:32:38 AM
Quote from: TONYD3 on March 07, 2014, 09:24:14 AM
Serious question. Are Dieaollo, Richards, govan, and briscoe better prospects then our current players? If not how can we expect better results?

Diallo, Govan and Briscoe are all Top 50 players in 2015.  Now rankings are a crapshoot many times.  You need to build the right team and work around deficiencies in certain players games.  They are deserving of their ranking.  How it translates at the next level is the other side of the sword.

Its not a question of if they are more talented, although a case could be made that they are. The point is they will not have to carry the load from day one and will have upper classmen to play with. JK, CO, Hooper will be seniors. Jordan, Jones, Felix will be Juniors. This years class will be sophmores. I haven't seen anything out of JS to think he is not a four year player. Ofcourse that could change, but right now until they declare, they will be here for four years. Jordan I could see leaving after his junior year.

Think about our 2015 team if JK, CO, and Jordan are still here. Thats is what good programs builds toward, and its a real good chance that may happen. Begining next year going forward we finally get to see our upper classmen lead the way. 

Karr a senior?
Ha

You don't think its possible? Just because he was BE rookie of the year doesn't mean he can't stay four years. He will need to come on very strong next year. He didn't improve his draft status this year.
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Poison

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #213 on: March 07, 2014, 11:34:35 PM »
Quote from: cjfish on March 07, 2014, 11:18:40 PM
Lavin may have been at the helm for the first torney in a decade but Roberts was the one who developed the team and handed it over to Lavin.  Do any of you really believe that in a 1/2 season Lavin developed the Kennedy team.....hardly....it was 3 years of hard work by Roberts who took a program in shambles and developed third tier players into a potential torney team.  Roberts is much maligned but, considering where Jarvis left SJU, he did a good job with mediocre players.  He got a raw deal and most of the people on this site continue to give him a raw deal.   

I really believe that Norm Roberts is a complete nice person. I give him almost zero credit for the class that he recruited that danced. Clearly, the only thing he had to do with their success was inviting them to play at STJ.

In terns of taking over a program in shambles, when he was fired, he was fired off of a 6-12 season loaded with upperclassman. He should never have been hired in the first place. Each season he was here, he continued to prove that he was unable to do anything well as a head coach.

And yes, I absolutely believe that a new staff came in, and recognized that Norm's horrendous judgement was what was holding the team back-more than anything. Any other BE coaches bury two all BE players on the bench for a year?

No, only Norm was that stupid.
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Poison

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #214 on: March 07, 2014, 11:38:24 PM »
Quote from: SJUFAN on March 07, 2014, 11:22:44 PM
Quote from: Moose on March 07, 2014, 05:27:40 PM
Quote from: SJUFAN on March 07, 2014, 04:00:27 PM
Quote from: Moose on March 07, 2014, 09:32:38 AM
Quote from: TONYD3 on March 07, 2014, 09:24:14 AM
Serious question. Are Dieaollo, Richards, govan, and briscoe better prospects then our current players? If not how can we expect better results?

Diallo, Govan and Briscoe are all Top 50 players in 2015.  Now rankings are a crapshoot many times.  You need to build the right team and work around deficiencies in certain players games.  They are deserving of their ranking.  How it translates at the next level is the other side of the sword.

Its not a question of if they are more talented, although a case could be made that they are. The point is they will not have to carry the load from day one and will have upper classmen to play with. JK, CO, Hooper will be seniors. Jordan, Jones, Felix will be Juniors. This years class will be sophmores. I haven't seen anything out of JS to think he is not a four year player. Ofcourse that could change, but right now until they declare, they will be here for four years. Jordan I could see leaving after his junior year.

Think about our 2015 team if JK, CO, and Jordan are still here. Thats is what good programs builds toward, and its a real good chance that may happen. Begining next year going forward we finally get to see our upper classmen lead the way. 

Karr a senior?
Ha

You don't think its possible? Just because he was BE rookie of the year doesn't mean he can't stay four years. He will need to come on very strong next year. He didn't improve his draft status this year.

Anyone can go pro if they want to. Doesn't mean they will be a pro. Part of why Lavin is here is to bring in talent, if that talent bails before accomplishing anything here, is there even a point to landing them in the first place?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 11:41:13 PM by Poison »
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Foad

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #215 on: March 08, 2014, 07:03:55 AM »
Quote from: Poison on March 07, 2014, 11:34:35 PM
I absolutely believe that a new staff came in, and recognized that Norm's horrendous judgement was what was holding the team back-more than anything. Any other BE coaches bury two all BE players on the bench for a year?

No, only Norm was that stupid.

Right. if he was smrat ® like Lavin he would have suspended them for their own good because there are more important things than winning.
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Foad

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #216 on: March 08, 2014, 07:35:44 AM »
Quote from: desco80 on March 07, 2014, 09:18:23 PM
"Moving in the right direction", means he shouldn't get fired.   You should have to actually accomplish something to get an extension.    An extension is essentially a raise.   

Our fans want Lavin to succeed so badly that they regularly defend him by pointing to his media friendly personality and recruiting success with Briscoe/Diallo/Govan.   Think about how telling that is.   If he deserved an extension there would be concrete accomplishments to point at.


Coaching SJU must be the least pressurized coaching job in D1.   They're giving the coach an extension before he's done anything.
If this goes through Lavin is getting a Participation Award that comes with a $2.5mil/yr prize.

You're evidently one of those sad deluded fans who thinks the university GAF about the success of the basketball program. It doesn't. That should be obvious. The basketball program is to SJU a bauble, a trophy wife - it gets to say to donors and other saps, oh look how pretty and shiny it is, and remember it's fine pedigree, it's out of a Lapchick mare, and then they wheel Louie out and he rambles on for a bit about feather dusters and then everybody writes some checks. That's the storied basketball program in a nutshell. From that perspective Lavin is the perfect coach. He doesn't have to do anything but show up with a vacant stare and look pretty and spout pieties about how there are more important things than winning. And the rubes in their red and white sweaters stare in wonder and lap it up. You should look at every game he wins as manna from heaven.

Lavin is a bimbo. All bimbos have to do is show up and look pretty. It's what Lavin's done his whole life - and look where it's gotten him: Broadway.  I for one applaud him for taking his god given talent for vapidity and using it to full advantage. As the saying goes: when God gives you stupid, make stupid-ade. And you, you should stop being such a hater.
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Poison

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #217 on: March 08, 2014, 08:29:17 AM »
Quote from: Foad on March 08, 2014, 07:03:55 AM
Quote from: Poison on March 07, 2014, 11:34:35 PM
I absolutely believe that a new staff came in, and recognized that Norm's horrendous judgement was what was holding the team back-more than anything. Any other BE coaches bury two all BE players on the bench for a year?

No, only Norm was that stupid.

Right. if he was smrat ® like Lavin he would have suspended them for their own good because there are more important things than winning.

How do you disagree with Lavin's suspensions if you don't why he suspended the players? No one here was happy with how the season played out last year, but with Norn, we never had a chance to win anything, and 6 years of terrible basketball is undeniable proof.

The jury is still out on Lavin. He still a chance for a pretty ending.
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TONYD3

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #218 on: March 08, 2014, 08:30:37 AM »
Not starting hardy and brown lee was stupid . We don't have that season without those guys .
 So was playing max, Marco, and Felix. . The zone was bad . Playing without a pg for half the season was also idiotic . We play this season over properly we make the tournament easily
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hnk

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Re: Contract Extension
« Reply #219 on: March 08, 2014, 09:36:30 AM »
I think the timing of the comment to the Post and subsequent article had to do with recruiting.
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