The Plight of Dangelo Harrison...

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2014, 01:46:49 AM

Harrison forces shots because the rest of the offense is pathetic. Dom and Phil are juniors, too. How'd they do? Right. Give it a rest.

Its mostly because theres no movement on offense to get him or anybody else an open look. Its all 1 on 1 or simple ball screens. Of the 350 division 1 teams I'd bet we rank 340 or worse in off ball screens set. Providence sets more off ball screens in one possession of their flex offense than we have the whole season

Stop it, you don't know basketball. When was the last time a team running a flex offense won the national championship? There are more than one ways to be successful. That being said, we set many screens, both on the ball and off, especially for Harrison. If you watch, you will notice that Harrison doesn't get much separation coming off screens. Whether its effort or a lack of foot speed may be debatable.That's not the coaches fault unless you want them to bench him for being slow. Get off this notion that we don't run a offense, watch Dukes offense and you will notice similarities to ours, seems to work for them.

Is the concept of shot selection foreign to you guys? No one is saying Harrison should take more bad shots, simply take the open shots that are available to him! The whole purpose of an offense is to get the players' an open shot, our offense does that, it's up to the players' to execute it. Take the freaking open shot every time! That's all I'm asking. It's a simple game, if you watch last nights BE finals you see Cotton and McD shoot the ball immediately, no hesitation, if they get even a glimpse of an open shot. D'lo catches and surveys the court then passes it or forces it. Take the open shot when you get it, he would improve his FG % dramatically. I'm harder on him than say Dom because he could do it, Dom can't.

I don't give two shits if D'lo averages a triple double if we still lose basketball games and there is improvements he could make that will lead him to average a quadruple double and make us win, I'm going to point it out. If the Miami heat don't win a championship its not because Bird man didn't step up. I like D'lo, he's a good player for us, regardless of what his stat line is he can play better for us and I point it out because he can. The other players' on the team doesn't have his offensive skill set.     

Quote from: goredmen on March 15, 2014, 02:08:44 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2014, 01:46:49 AM

Harrison forces shots because the rest of the offense is pathetic. Dom and Phil are juniors, too. How'd they do? Right. Give it a rest.

Its mostly because theres no movement on offense to get him or anybody else an open look. Its all 1 on 1 or simple ball screens. Of the 350 division 1 teams I'd bet we rank 340 or worse in off ball screens set. Providence sets more off ball screens in one possession of their flex offense than we have the whole season

Stop it, you don't know basketball. When was the last time a team running a flex offense won the national championship? There are more than one ways to be successful. That being said, we set many screens, both on the ball and off, especially for Harrison. If you watch, you will notice that Harrison doesn't get much separation coming off screens. Whether its effort or a lack of foot speed may be debatable.That's not the coaches fault unless you want them to bench him for being slow. Get off this notion that we don't run a offense, watch Dukes offense and you will notice similarities to ours, seems to work for them.

A team running the flex just won our conference with inferior talent to ours. Dont tell me I dont know basketball. The whole team has sucked at shot selection for the whole season. How is coaching not at least a little bit responsible for that?

So, getting involved in skirmishes and near skirmishes every game(Pointer) is OK and so is refusing to enter a game(0bekpa). Eyerolling gets you suspended though. In honor of DLO this is what I think of that 

I was frankly shocked that DLO opted to play again for this coach after last year's disgrace. There was no way we win twenty without him and all the post season chatter would have died long before it did.  To knock him now after he took the high road is totally preposterous.  Watching him sit last night basking in the coaches' lack of appreciation  was truly nauseating.  Almost as bad was watching poor Marco get a last minute tumble from one of the phoniest coaches I've ever seen.  The only positive is that it's finally over and I thank God for that.  If anyone actually thinks Lavin is going to be able to toss off another lousy year and right the ship for a realistic run next year I think they're dreaming.  I think the word is out on this guy and nothing short of a recruiting miracle is going turn this mess around.  As I've said before I'm going watch the news before committing any more $$$ to this Godforsaken program.  I believe we have some pissed off players who may opt out so that will be one of many problems we face going forward.  Who knows, maybe a new president will make a difference but I have my doubts about that.  Meanwhile the great multi-million dollar extension debate will rage while Monasch continues to duck the bullets he so richly deserves.  Have a nice off-season guys if you can.

I was frankly shocked that DLO opted to play again for this coach after last year's disgrace. There was no way we win twenty without him and all the post season chatter would have died long before it did.  To knock him now after he took the high road is totally preposterous.  Watching him sit last night basking in the coaches' lack of appreciation  was truly nauseating.  Almost as bad was watching poor Marco get a last minute tumble from one of the phoniest coaches I've ever seen.  The only positive is that it's finally over and I thank God for that.  If anyone actually thinks Lavin is going to be able to toss off another lousy year and right the ship for a realistic run next year I think they're dreaming.  I think the word is out on this guy and nothing short of a recruiting miracle is going turn this mess around.  As I've said before I'm going watch the news before committing any more $$$ to this Godforsaken program.  I believe we have some pissed off players who may opt out so that will be one of many problems we face going forward.  Who knows, maybe a new president will make a difference but I have my doubts about that.  Meanwhile the great multi-million dollar extension debate will rage while Monasch continues to duck the bullets he so richly deserves.  Have a nice off-season guys if you can.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{BOBRE}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Quote from: goredmen on March 16, 2014, 02:06:15 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 16, 2014, 11:36:03 AM

Quote from: goredmen on March 15, 2014, 02:08:44 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2014, 01:46:49 AM

Harrison forces shots because the rest of the offense is pathetic. Dom and Phil are juniors, too. How'd they do? Right. Give it a rest.

Its mostly because theres no movement on offense to get him or anybody else an open look. Its all 1 on 1 or simple ball screens. Of the 350 division 1 teams I'd bet we rank 340 or worse in off ball screens set. Providence sets more off ball screens in one possession of their flex offense than we have the whole season

Stop it, you don't know basketball. When was the last time a team running a flex offense won the national championship? There are more than one ways to be successful. That being said, we set many screens, both on the ball and off, especially for Harrison. If you watch, you will notice that Harrison doesn't get much separation coming off screens. Whether its effort or a lack of foot speed may be debatable.That's not the coaches fault unless you want them to bench him for being slow. Get off this notion that we don't run a offense, watch Dukes offense and you will notice similarities to ours, seems to work for them.

A team running the flex just won our conference with inferior talent to ours. Dont tell me I dont know basketball. The whole team has sucked at shot selection for the whole season. How is coaching not at least a little bit responsible for that?

Why do you say they have inferior talent? How are you measuring that?

Im measuring that by using basketball knowledge and common sense. We are more talented but their players play to their full potential and ours don't. That's a difference in coaching.

I guess all the analysts on TV like Rothstein, Bilas, Greenburg and Gottlieb who all called us the most talented team in the big east (Rothstein said we were by far) were way off base right? Not saying those guys are right all the time but when theres that many of them saying the same thing it probably has some truth to it

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 19, 2014, 01:46:03 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 16, 2014, 02:06:15 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 16, 2014, 11:36:03 AM

Quote from: goredmen on March 15, 2014, 02:08:44 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2014, 01:46:49 AM

Harrison forces shots because the rest of the offense is pathetic. Dom and Phil are juniors, too. How'd they do? Right. Give it a rest.

Its mostly because theres no movement on offense to get him or anybody else an open look. Its all 1 on 1 or simple ball screens. Of the 350 division 1 teams I'd bet we rank 340 or worse in off ball screens set. Providence sets more off ball screens in one possession of their flex offense than we have the whole season

Stop it, you don't know basketball. When was the last time a team running a flex offense won the national championship? There are more than one ways to be successful. That being said, we set many screens, both on the ball and off, especially for Harrison. If you watch, you will notice that Harrison doesn't get much separation coming off screens. Whether its effort or a lack of foot speed may be debatable.That's not the coaches fault unless you want them to bench him for being slow. Get off this notion that we don't run a offense, watch Dukes offense and you will notice similarities to ours, seems to work for them.

A team running the flex just won our conference with inferior talent to ours. Dont tell me I dont know basketball. The whole team has sucked at shot selection for the whole season. How is coaching not at least a little bit responsible for that?

Why do you say they have inferior talent? How are you measuring that?

Im measuring that by using basketball knowledge and common sense. We are more talented but their players play to their full potential and ours don't. That's a difference in coaching

So enlighten me with your basketball knowledge, when your evaluating, in what aspects do our players grade out higher than there's? There's a little more to it than just saying common sense.

Quote from: goredmen on March 19, 2014, 02:14:08 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 19, 2014, 01:46:03 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 16, 2014, 02:06:15 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 16, 2014, 11:36:03 AM

Quote from: goredmen on March 15, 2014, 02:08:44 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2014, 01:46:49 AM

Harrison forces shots because the rest of the offense is pathetic. Dom and Phil are juniors, too. How'd they do? Right. Give it a rest.

Its mostly because theres no movement on offense to get him or anybody else an open look. Its all 1 on 1 or simple ball screens. Of the 350 division 1 teams I'd bet we rank 340 or worse in off ball screens set. Providence sets more off ball screens in one possession of their flex offense than we have the whole season

Stop it, you don't know basketball. When was the last time a team running a flex offense won the national championship? There are more than one ways to be successful. That being said, we set many screens, both on the ball and off, especially for Harrison. If you watch, you will notice that Harrison doesn't get much separation coming off screens. Whether its effort or a lack of foot speed may be debatable.That's not the coaches fault unless you want them to bench him for being slow. Get off this notion that we don't run a offense, watch Dukes offense and you will notice similarities to ours, seems to work for them.

A team running the flex just won our conference with inferior talent to ours. Dont tell me I dont know basketball. The whole team has sucked at shot selection for the whole season. How is coaching not at least a little bit responsible for that?

Why do you say they have inferior talent? How are you measuring that?

Im measuring that by using basketball knowledge and common sense. We are more talented but their players play to their full potential and ours don't. That's a difference in coaching

So enlighten me with your basketball knowledge, when your evaluating, in what aspects do our players grade out higher than there's? There's a little more to it than just saying common sense.

This discussion has taken place too many times on this board. Its useless for me to explain how to explain how we have the more talented roster when you just wont accept it. You think our players are responsible for the failed season and I think its the staff. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


Ill just post these to show you how this idea that we are the most talented team in the big east is not just coming from posters that dislike Lavin

Adam Zagoria ‏@AdamZagoria  Mar 10
Buzz Williams: "I think St. John's is the most talented team in the league."

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Feb 16
St. John's continues to play up to its potential. Clearly the most talented team in the Big East. #SJUBB

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Jan 11
@ClevelandRuss @jadeliberato @BlackburnReview St. John's has the most talented roster in the league. And it's not even close.

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Dec 10
It's not even close! @GL13MV: @JonRothstein For the first time, St. John's is showing why theyre the most talented team in Big East #sjubb

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Apr 16
Steve Lavin has assembled a LOADED roster at St. John's. Red Storm will have the most talented team heading into the new Big East in 13-14.

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN  Sep 17
@JasonKingESPN I agree St. John's has the most talent, but could still finish behind Marquette, G'Town, Nova, Creighton, Xavier and Prov.

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 19, 2014, 02:44:29 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 19, 2014, 02:14:08 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 19, 2014, 01:46:03 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 16, 2014, 02:06:15 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 16, 2014, 11:36:03 AM

Quote from: goredmen on March 15, 2014, 02:08:44 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2014, 01:46:49 AM

Harrison forces shots because the rest of the offense is pathetic. Dom and Phil are juniors, too. How'd they do? Right. Give it a rest.

Its mostly because theres no movement on offense to get him or anybody else an open look. Its all 1 on 1 or simple ball screens. Of the 350 division 1 teams I'd bet we rank 340 or worse in off ball screens set. Providence sets more off ball screens in one possession of their flex offense than we have the whole season

Stop it, you don't know basketball. When was the last time a team running a flex offense won the national championship? There are more than one ways to be successful. That being said, we set many screens, both on the ball and off, especially for Harrison. If you watch, you will notice that Harrison doesn't get much separation coming off screens. Whether its effort or a lack of foot speed may be debatable.That's not the coaches fault unless you want them to bench him for being slow. Get off this notion that we don't run a offense, watch Dukes offense and you will notice similarities to ours, seems to work for them.

A team running the flex just won our conference with inferior talent to ours. Dont tell me I dont know basketball. The whole team has sucked at shot selection for the whole season. How is coaching not at least a little bit responsible for that?

Why do you say they have inferior talent? How are you measuring that?

Im measuring that by using basketball knowledge and common sense. We are more talented but their players play to their full potential and ours don't. That's a difference in coaching

So enlighten me with your basketball knowledge, when your evaluating, in what aspects do our players grade out higher than there's? There's a little more to it than just saying common sense.

This discussion has taken place too many times on this board. Its useless for me to explain how to explain how we have the more talented roster when you just wont accept it. You think our players are responsible for the failed season and I think its the staff. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


Ill just post these to show you how this idea that we are the most talented team in the big east is not just coming from posters that dislike Lavin

Adam Zagoria ‏@AdamZagoria  Mar 10
Buzz Williams: "I think St. John's is the most talented team in the league."

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Feb 16
St. John's continues to play up to its potential. Clearly the most talented team in the Big East. #SJUBB

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Jan 11
@ClevelandRuss @jadeliberato @BlackburnReview St. John's has the most talented roster in the league. And it's not even close.

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Dec 10
It's not even close! @GL13MV: @JonRothstein For the first time, St. John's is showing why theyre the most talented team in Big East #sjubb

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Apr 16
Steve Lavin has assembled a LOADED roster at St. John's. Red Storm will have the most talented team heading into the new Big East in 13-14.

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN  Sep 17
@JasonKingESPN I agree St. John's has the most talent, but could still finish behind Marquette, G'Town, Nova, Creighton, Xavier and Prov.

Just because we have the "most" meaning our seven, eight and nine guys off the bench is more "talented" than there seven, eight and nine guys doesn't mean that our 1 and 2 players are better than there 1 and 2 players. In college basketball all you need is one player who can carry a team, we don't have that.

Who on our team is a better offensive player than Cotton? Who on our team is a better post player, on ball defender and rebounder than Batts? This isn't a running and jumping contest. Although we may be deeper, some other teams have better players, that is the reality. That is why we were picked to finish 5th in the league.   

Quote from: goredmen on March 19, 2014, 03:05:51 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 19, 2014, 02:44:29 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 19, 2014, 02:14:08 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 19, 2014, 01:46:03 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 16, 2014, 02:06:15 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 16, 2014, 11:36:03 AM

Quote from: goredmen on March 15, 2014, 02:08:44 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2014, 01:46:49 AM

Harrison forces shots because the rest of the offense is pathetic. Dom and Phil are juniors, too. How'd they do? Right. Give it a rest.

Its mostly because theres no movement on offense to get him or anybody else an open look. Its all 1 on 1 or simple ball screens. Of the 350 division 1 teams I'd bet we rank 340 or worse in off ball screens set. Providence sets more off ball screens in one possession of their flex offense than we have the whole season

Stop it, you don't know basketball. When was the last time a team running a flex offense won the national championship? There are more than one ways to be successful. That being said, we set many screens, both on the ball and off, especially for Harrison. If you watch, you will notice that Harrison doesn't get much separation coming off screens. Whether its effort or a lack of foot speed may be debatable.That's not the coaches fault unless you want them to bench him for being slow. Get off this notion that we don't run a offense, watch Dukes offense and you will notice similarities to ours, seems to work for them.

A team running the flex just won our conference with inferior talent to ours. Dont tell me I dont know basketball. The whole team has sucked at shot selection for the whole season. How is coaching not at least a little bit responsible for that?

Why do you say they have inferior talent? How are you measuring that?

Im measuring that by using basketball knowledge and common sense. We are more talented but their players play to their full potential and ours don't. That's a difference in coaching

So enlighten me with your basketball knowledge, when your evaluating, in what aspects do our players grade out higher than there's? There's a little more to it than just saying common sense.

This discussion has taken place too many times on this board. Its useless for me to explain how to explain how we have the more talented roster when you just wont accept it. You think our players are responsible for the failed season and I think its the staff. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


Ill just post these to show you how this idea that we are the most talented team in the big east is not just coming from posters that dislike Lavin

Adam Zagoria ‏@AdamZagoria  Mar 10
Buzz Williams: "I think St. John's is the most talented team in the league."

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Feb 16
St. John's continues to play up to its potential. Clearly the most talented team in the Big East. #SJUBB

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Jan 11
@ClevelandRuss @jadeliberato @BlackburnReview St. John's has the most talented roster in the league. And it's not even close.

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Dec 10
It's not even close! @GL13MV: @JonRothstein For the first time, St. John's is showing why theyre the most talented team in Big East #sjubb

Jon Rothstein ‏@JonRothstein  Apr 16
Steve Lavin has assembled a LOADED roster at St. John's. Red Storm will have the most talented team heading into the new Big East in 13-14.

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN  Sep 17
@JasonKingESPN I agree St. John's has the most talent, but could still finish behind Marquette, G'Town, Nova, Creighton, Xavier and Prov.

Just because we have the "most" meaning our seven, eight and nine guys off the bench is more "talented" than there seven, eight and nine guys doesn't mean that our 1 and 2 players are better than there 1 and 2 players. In college basketball all you need is one player who can carry a team, we don't have that.

Who on our team is a better offensive player than Cotton? Who on our team is a better post player, on ball defender and rebounder than Batts? This isn't a running and jumping contest. Although we may be deeper, some other teams have better players, that is the reality. That is why we were picked to finish 5th in the league.   

No, what they were saying isn't that we have more players with talent, they were saying our talent > everybody else's talent in the league. Sure we may not have the best player on the court at all times but our 5 were more talented than the other team's 5. And a large part of the reason we were picked 5th is because it's no secret that Lavin is BY FAR the most clueless in-game coach in the big east and that includes Purnell. That is definitely taken into consideration when projecting a team's success

a large part of the reason we were picked 5th is because it's no secret that Lavin is BY FAR the most clueless in-game coach in the big east and that includes Purnell. That is definitely taken into consideration when projecting a team's success

That's pure conjecture, why not because other teams are better? It doesn't support your position I get it. Funny how Lavin's in-game coaching ability didn't prevent Pitino from picking us number one in the old Big East when we didn't have anywhere near as much "talent" as we do now. We finished tied for 3rd, which is probably were we should be.   

Hey pitino has always liked us, lets go get him

Quote from: goredmen on March 19, 2014, 04:33:14 PM

a large part of the reason we were picked 5th is because it's no secret that Lavin is BY FAR the most clueless in-game coach in the big east and that includes Purnell. That is definitely taken into consideration when projecting a team's success

That's pure conjecture, why not because other teams are better? It doesn't support your position I get it. Funny how Lavin's in-game coaching ability didn't prevent Pitino from picking us number one in the old Big East when we didn't have anywhere near as much "talent" as we do now. We finished tied for 3rd, which is probably were we should be.   

You just spun all those tweets about us being the most talented team in the BE and said they meant that we just have more talented players than other teams and I'm the one that spins thing to fit my position. Funny

Quote from: goredmen on March 15, 2014, 02:08:44 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2014, 01:46:49 AM

Harrison forces shots because the rest of the offense is pathetic. Dom and Phil are juniors, too. How'd they do? Right. Give it a rest.

Its mostly because theres no movement on offense to get him or anybody else an open look. Its all 1 on 1 or simple ball screens. Of the 350 division 1 teams I'd bet we rank 340 or worse in off ball screens set. Providence sets more off ball screens in one possession of their flex offense than we have the whole season

Stop it, you don't know basketball. When was the last time a team running a flex offense won the national championship? There are more than one ways to be successful. That being said, we set many screens, both on the ball and off, especially for Harrison. If you watch, you will notice that Harrison doesn't get much separation coming off screens. Whether its effort or a lack of foot speed may be debatable.That's not the coaches fault unless you want them to bench him for being slow. Get off this notion that we don't run a offense, watch Dukes offense and you will notice similarities to ours, seems to work for them.

Almost all successful teams have utilized flex plays--especially set plays--even if their offense isn't centered around it.  I agree there are more ways to win that and Providence didn't beat us because of the flex...they beat us because they bullied us on the boards and had two shots all night if they needed it.  I don't think we move nearly enough as a team.  There are times they come out very deliberately and with purpose, but too often they just stand flat-footed passing the ball around the perimeter while setting pointless screens and going through token motion.  When they cut, screen, and move with purpose, the offense looks so much better. 

Harrison has a tough time separating and they do screen for him, but they don't run him through enough staggers or double-screens.  They don't put him in enough option situations to make a defense choose.  He's a good decision-maker when there are options.  He's really, really slow and he needs to learn to use screens better.

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 16, 2014, 11:36:03 AM

Quote from: goredmen on March 15, 2014, 02:08:44 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 15, 2014, 01:46:49 AM

Harrison forces shots because the rest of the offense is pathetic. Dom and Phil are juniors, too. How'd they do? Right. Give it a rest.

Its mostly because theres no movement on offense to get him or anybody else an open look. Its all 1 on 1 or simple ball screens. Of the 350 division 1 teams I'd bet we rank 340 or worse in off ball screens set. Providence sets more off ball screens in one possession of their flex offense than we have the whole season

Stop it, you don't know basketball. When was the last time a team running a flex offense won the national championship? There are more than one ways to be successful. That being said, we set many screens, both on the ball and off, especially for Harrison. If you watch, you will notice that Harrison doesn't get much separation coming off screens. Whether its effort or a lack of foot speed may be debatable.That's not the coaches fault unless you want them to bench him for being slow. Get off this notion that we don't run a offense, watch Dukes offense and you will notice similarities to ours, seems to work for them.

Almost all successful teams have utilized flex plays--especially set plays--even if their offense isn't centered around it.  I agree there are more ways to win that and Providence didn't beat us because of the flex...they beat us because they bullied us on the boards and had two shots all night if they needed it.  I don't think we move nearly enough as a team.  There are times they come out very deliberately and with purpose, but too often they just stand flat-footed passing the ball around the perimeter while setting pointless screens and going through token motion.  When they cut, screen, and move with purpose, the offense looks so much better. 

Harrison has a tough time separating and they do screen for him, but they don't run him through enough staggers or double-screens.  They don't put him in enough option situations to make a defense choose.  He's a good decision-maker when there are options.  He's really, really slow and he needs to learn to use screens better.

The point is they run a offense, although some may not agree with the type of offense that is being run, the problem more times than not is the execution, not the type of offense we run. We can't get caught up the philosophical differences. I think we should be a pressing, trapping team. Although that maybe better suited for our team doesn't mean Lavin can't coach because he doesn't chose to do it. If the cuse coach was coaching this very team they wouldn't be pressing and trapping either. Doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is doing, we just don't agree with that coaches chosen style of play.

My main concern is the lack of team discipline and the mental breakdowns, that is on coach, he's not perfect and I don't expect him to be. I do expect him to bring in very good players, increase the profile of the program, and bring us to the NCAA tourney more times than not. That he could do and believe he will do regardless of what happened this year.   

 SJUFAN-   I agree with the majority of your posts. they are well thought out and articulate and it's obvious you know the game..

 My only thing is that truly great coaches are able to adapt a style of play that fits their personnel.  I agree, we should have been a pressing , trapping, run and gun team. I said it from Day 1.

 Look at Pat Riley... Showtime Lakers to the Knicks, where it was slow down offense and hardcore, in your face, beat you up defense..  Now some dope will call me an idiot for comparing Lavin to Riley, but I'm just using that as an example.

 Continuously trying to jam a square block into a round hole with this group has proven to be a wrong direction re: coaching philosophy.

SJUFAN-   I agree with the majority of your posts. they are well thought out and articulate and it's obvious you know the game..

 My only thing is that truly great coaches are able to adapt a style of play that fits their personnel.  I agree, we should have been a pressing , trapping, run and gun team. I said it from Day 1.

 Look at Pat Riley... Showtime Lakers to the Knicks, where it was slow down offense and hardcore, in your face, beat you up defense..  Now some dope will call me an idiot for comparing Lavin to Riley, but I'm just using that as an example.

 Continuously trying to jam a square block into a round hole with this group has proven to be a wrong direction re: coaching philosophy.

I hope my defense of Lavin hasn't come across as though I believe he is a great coach. As you said, great coaches adapt their style to match their roster, clearly Lavin isn't that, not many are. I'm not sure if Lavin is a good coach. What I do believe is that he is a great recruiter, and he will be great for this program. People knock him because he's a "salesman" and "cant win without good players", so what. I want him to sale our program, our school, our city. That is not a bad thing. Its why he is able to compete with the big boys and land top recruits even though he may not be as good as a coach, and not many great coaches win with no talent. If he couldn't land the talent then it would be a issue, but he can. I'm not expecting to win a national championship, we don't win national championships. I expect to make the tournament, and maybe, one day, win a national championship.

What Lavin brings to the entire program in terms of visibility and fund raising is huge, I really don't care if its smoke and mirrors, he does it. He will make this program what it should be, a perennial NCAA tourney team with representation in the NBA. I don't want just a good coach, I want a coach that will put us on the map. Lavin will do that, and in many cases he already has.

Quote from: boo3 on March 20, 2014, 12:04:40 PM

SJUFAN-   I agree with the majority of your posts. they are well thought out and articulate and it's obvious you know the game..

 My only thing is that truly great coaches are able to adapt a style of play that fits their personnel.  I agree, we should have been a pressing , trapping, run and gun team. I said it from Day 1.

 Look at Pat Riley... Showtime Lakers to the Knicks, where it was slow down offense and hardcore, in your face, beat you up defense..  Now some dope will call me an idiot for comparing Lavin to Riley, but I'm just using that as an example.

 Continuously trying to jam a square block into a round hole with this group has proven to be a wrong direction re: coaching philosophy.

I hope my defense of Lavin hasn't come across as though I believe he is a great coach. As you said, great coaches adapt their style to match their roster, clearly Lavin isn't that, not many are. I'm not sure if Lavin is a good coach. What I do believe is that he is a great recruiter, and he will be great for this program. People knock him because he's a "salesman" and "cant win without good players", so what. I want him to sale our program, our school, our city. That is not a bad thing. Its why he is able to compete with the big boys and land top recruits even though he may not be as good as a coach, and not many great coaches win with no talent. If he couldn't land the talent then it would be a issue, but he can. I'm not expecting to win a national championship, we don't win national championships. I expect to make the tournament, and maybe, one day, win a national championship.

What Lavin brings to the entire program in terms of visibility and fund raising is huge, I really don't care if its smoke and mirrors, he does it. He will make this program what it should be, a perennial NCAA tourney team with representation in the NBA. I don't want just a good coach, I want a coach that will put us on the map. Lavin will do that, and in many cases he already has.

The problem I have with your line of thinking is you seem to believe the things Lavin is good at get us stability and success, I think stability and success will get us the things Lavin supposedly offers.   
Case in point - everyone seems to believe that Lavin is a good spokesman for the program, does a lot of interviews, is media friendly etc  - and this gets us good exposure.   He fund-raises well, supposedly    And finally, he recruits well. 
He does these things well - the theory goes, because his personality is well suited for it.    Right?

The alternative is this....
You find a coach who is good at actually coaching basketball games and developing basketball players.   That coach wins a little, and thereafter the media wants to interview him and recruits want to come play for him, donors even send him money.   
I actually believe this is the more realistic option for sustained success.    Every coach obviously has to be a showman to some degree, but when you start with a salesman, rather then an authentic coach, the risk of the bubble bursting is just too great.   
With the exception of a few slick guys like Cal, most coaches aren't awesome tv personalities... they're coaches first, who the media happen to interview a lot because their teams win.   
I don't think Izzo, Self, Thad Matta, Shaka Smart, Billy Donovan, Bo Ryan etc are where they are because they have media friendly personalities.

We're putting the cart before the horse.    Get a good basketball coach, that will drive the exposure.   

I've always said that winning games is the best kind of exposure. That will get fans,media coverage and donors. All the talking and media friendly personality means squat if your not winning.