Why does this staff deserve an extension?

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Tiznow

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #160 on: March 18, 2014, 10:50:49 PM »
1.  The talent level will be diminished.

2.  The experience level seems maxed out.

3.  No significant recruits seem to be coming

4.  The same coaching staff will be in place

So how do any of you see improvement?  Do tell!

Linda, take your meds and go to bed.

SJUFAN

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #161 on: March 18, 2014, 11:00:34 PM »
It amazes me how Lavin supporters like yourself and others use a horrendous stretch of basketball to compare Lavins accomplishments.  Why not compare with him with Looies tenure on the job.  Sure Looie had some faults and was not great in the end but certainly superior to Lavin in a much tougher Big East conference. 

So you believe that 25 years ago is a more accurate representation of the state of the program as opposed to the prior 10 years of Lavin's hire? I think that says it all about your ability to look at things rationally.

The one good thing, perhaps, is that since it us quite obvious that Lavin will need NBA all star talent to be successful it may keep the pressure on him to recruit high caliber HS players. The downside to that is if he does not, the party's over.

So remind me I forgot, exactly how many NBA all star talent players were on the team Lavin's first year here when he brought us to the NCAA tourney for the first time in a decade?

Oh really but you look at things rationally?  You are content with mediocrity so you compare his results to the worst group of coaches in the school's history? Give me a break.  And it terms of his first year, the big difference....DUNLAP  or did you conveniently forget about him?

Just because I point out the fact that progress is being made doesn't mean one is accepting mediocrity. Mediocrity is what this program was before Lavin. No top rated recruits and CBI bids. Its a process and steady improvement is being made. That is a fact. Its convenient for u to not give Lavin credit for that first year success. What did Dunlap do the next year with a top 5 recruiting class and a first round NBA draft pick? Lavin is the head coach, he gets the credit.


Hey buddy, after tonites DEBACLE, do you still think progress is being made?  If so, I can recommend some therapists that work well with  reality checking.

One game doesn't define a tenure. Robert Morris defeated Kentucky in the first round of the NIT last year. We don't have no were near the talent Kentucky has. So I'm not surprised that they lost, I am disappointed in the effort of the players. So to answer your question, yes I still believe progress is being made. We will bring in better players, that's what good recruiters do.

Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #162 on: March 18, 2014, 11:01:26 PM »
1.  The talent level will be diminished.

2.  The experience level seems maxed out.

3.  No significant recruits seem to be coming

4.  The same coaching staff will be in place

So how do any of you see improvement?  Do tell!

Linda, take your meds and go to bed.

pass those meds to me, I'm completely disgusted. This year was #$%^ing awful. Suspensions, no effort,.more suspensions, no effort, more drama, no effort, more drama. Rinse, repeat.

Lavin is a mess.

Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #163 on: March 18, 2014, 11:07:26 PM »
1.  The talent level will be diminished.

2.  The experience level seems maxed out.

3.  No significant recruits seem to be coming

4.  The same coaching staff will be in place

So how do any of you see improvement?  Do tell!

Linda, take your meds and go to bed.
1.  The talent level will be diminished.

2.  The experience level seems maxed out.

3.  No significant recruits seem to be coming

4.  The same coaching staff will be in place

So how do any of you see improvement?  Do tell!

Linda, take your meds and go to bed.
1.  The talent level will be diminished.

2.  The experience level seems maxed out.

3.  No significant recruits seem to be coming

4.  The same coaching staff will be in place

So how do any of you see improvement?  Do tell!

Linda, take your meds and go to bed.

Tizzy, get a life and worry about yourself.

Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #164 on: March 18, 2014, 11:09:46 PM »
It amazes me how Lavin supporters like yourself and others use a horrendous stretch of basketball to compare Lavins accomplishments.  Why not compare with him with Looies tenure on the job.  Sure Looie had some faults and was not great in the end but certainly superior to Lavin in a much tougher Big East conference. 

So you believe that 25 years ago is a more accurate representation of the state of the program as opposed to the prior 10 years of Lavin's hire? I think that says it all about your ability to look at things rationally.

The one good thing, perhaps, is that since it us quite obvious that Lavin will need NBA all star talent to be successful it may keep the pressure on him to recruit high caliber HS players. The downside to that is if he does not, the party's over.

So remind me I forgot, exactly how many NBA all star talent players were on the team Lavin's first year here when he brought us to the NCAA tourney for the first time in a decade?

Oh really but you look at things rationally?  You are content with mediocrity so you compare his results to the worst group of coaches in the school's history? Give me a break.  And it terms of his first year, the big difference....DUNLAP  or did you conveniently forget about him?

Just because I point out the fact that progress is being made doesn't mean one is accepting mediocrity. Mediocrity is what this program was before Lavin. No top rated recruits and CBI bids. Its a process and steady improvement is being made. That is a fact. Its convenient for u to not give Lavin credit for that first year success. What did Dunlap do the next year with a top 5 recruiting class and a first round NBA draft pick? Lavin is the head coach, he gets the credit.


Hey buddy, after tonites DEBACLE, do you still think progress is being made?  If so, I can recommend some therapists that work well with  reality checking.

One game doesn't define a tenure. Robert Morris defeated Kentucky in the first round of the NIT last year. We don't have no were near the talent Kentucky has. So I'm not surprised that they lost, I am disappointed in the effort of the players. So to answer your question, yes I still believe progress is being made. We will bring in better players, that's what good recruiters do.

So going from a second round NIT without your best player last year to a first round knock (blow) out this year is progress, you be delerious.

Dan

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #165 on: March 18, 2014, 11:52:49 PM »
Holy crap Baldi is the voice of reason, wow.

If you are celebrating Steve Lavin for getting this team to the NIT (choking once and losing early the other time) twice and making the NCAAs once with Norm Roberts' players, you are half the reason the program is in the toilet.  It's sad to say, but Lavin is proving to be almost just as inept as Roberts.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 11:53:33 PM by Dan »

Dan

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #166 on: March 18, 2014, 11:56:38 PM »
What will be Lavin's excuse next year?  Jordan left early?  He suspended someone again? 

He lives off excuses.

I said before this season not making the tournament would be a disappointment.  Then they embarrassed themselves in the NIT to boot so he should definitely be on the hot seat, discussing an extension for being in the NCAA discussion before blowing it against Providence shows how pathetic the administration is and how low everyone's collective expectations are.

Make the tournament next year or out the door.  It should be clear at this point.

Foad

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #167 on: March 19, 2014, 09:03:01 AM »
One game doesn't define a tenure. Robert Morris defeated Kentucky in the first round of the NIT last year. We don't have no were near the talent Kentucky has. So I'm not surprised that they lost, I am disappointed in the effort of the players. So to answer your question, yes I still believe progress is being made. We will bring in better players, that's what good recruiters do.

You're "not surprised" that #1 seed SJU lost to #8 seed Robert Morris at home in year four of Lavin's tenure and you also believe that this loss culminates a season that represents progress. The mind boggles.


Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #168 on: March 19, 2014, 09:09:31 AM »
One game doesn't define a tenure. Robert Morris defeated Kentucky in the first round of the NIT last year. We don't have no were near the talent Kentucky has. So I'm not surprised that they lost, I am disappointed in the effort of the players. So to answer your question, yes I still believe progress is being made. We will bring in better players, that's what good recruiters do.

You're "not surprised" that #1 seed SJU lost to #8 seed Robert Morris at home in year four of Lavin's tenure and you also believe that this loss culminates a season that represents progress. The mind boggles.



Vegas was certainly surprised judging by the 15 point spread.
In other news SJUFAN was also not surprised by the 69 Mets, Jets, the ending of Crying Game or that Verbal Kent was Keyser Souza.

Foad

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #169 on: March 19, 2014, 09:26:55 AM »
One game doesn't define a tenure. Robert Morris defeated Kentucky in the first round of the NIT last year. We don't have no were near the talent Kentucky has. So I'm not surprised that they lost, I am disappointed in the effort of the players. So to answer your question, yes I still believe progress is being made. We will bring in better players, that's what good recruiters do.

You're "not surprised" that #1 seed SJU lost to #8 seed Robert Morris at home in year four of Lavin's tenure and you also believe that this loss culminates a season that represents progress. The mind boggles.



Vegas was certainly surprised judging by the 15 point spread.
In other news SJUFAN was also not surprised by the 69 Mets, Jets, the ending of Crying Game or that Verbal Kent was Keyser Souza.

Not to worry. Once Lavin brings in better players than the 3 top 10 recruiting classes he's brought in already we'll be set to beat the stuffing out of Robert Morris in the NIT.

Tha Kid

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #170 on: March 19, 2014, 09:34:11 AM »
After the latest debacle, I'm adding a point 2 as to how we were so great in Lavin's first year:

Now I'm wondering if Dunlap was not only important to the Xs and Os but also team discipline.  Norm may have helped that too --- he may not have been a good coach but he brought in hard working players who matured in their time here.  They were ready to take care of business when Lavin/Dunlap arrived.
"I drink and I know things"

derk

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #171 on: March 19, 2014, 09:38:32 AM »
This season was an obvious disappointment. Now we have to deal with other teams surpassing us ( read Providence, The Hall, and with their young team - maybe DePaul ), playing in a league that is a shell of its former self, having a bunch of disappointed upperclassmen stay focused, and having to improve in so many ways it's ridiculous to even discuss, and no impact recruits on the horizon.

Poison

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #172 on: March 19, 2014, 10:03:30 AM »
It amazes me how Lavin supporters like yourself and others use a horrendous stretch of basketball to compare Lavins accomplishments.  Why not compare with him with Looies tenure on the job.  Sure Looie had some faults and was not great in the end but certainly superior to Lavin in a much tougher Big East conference. 

So you believe that 25 years ago is a more accurate representation of the state of the program as opposed to the prior 10 years of Lavin's hire? I think that says it all about your ability to look at things rationally.

The one good thing, perhaps, is that since it us quite obvious that Lavin will need NBA all star talent to be successful it may keep the pressure on him to recruit high caliber HS players. The downside to that is if he does not, the party's over.

So remind me I forgot, exactly how many NBA all star talent players were on the team Lavin's first year here when he brought us to the NCAA tourney for the first time in a decade?

Oh really but you look at things rationally?  You are content with mediocrity so you compare his results to the worst group of coaches in the school's history? Give me a break.  And it terms of his first year, the big difference....DUNLAP  or did you conveniently forget about him?

Just because I point out the fact that progress is being made doesn't mean one is accepting mediocrity. Mediocrity is what this program was before Lavin. No top rated recruits and CBI bids. Its a process and steady improvement is being made. That is a fact. Its convenient for u to not give Lavin credit for that first year success. What did Dunlap do the next year with a top 5 recruiting class and a first round NBA draft pick? Lavin is the head coach, he gets the credit.


Hey buddy, after tonites DEBACLE, do you still think progress is being made?  If so, I can recommend some therapists that work well with  reality checking.

One game doesn't define a tenure. Robert Morris defeated Kentucky in the first round of the NIT last year. We don't have no were near the talent Kentucky has. So I'm not surprised that they lost, I am disappointed in the effort of the players. So to answer your question, yes I still believe progress is being made. We will bring in better players, that's what good recruiters do.

Is there really progress? Is going 10-8 in the NEW BE, better than going 7-9 in the old one? What would our record have been if we  played Louisville, Uconn, Cinci and SU, once or even twice?

A strong argument can be made that the team regressed. This "20 wins" BS that I'm sure Lavin will go to whenever he feels like it is smoke and mirrors, when you're wins are actually not as strong as they were a year ago. He had an easier time making decisions with a limited selection of eligible players. Branch started to play well and he got into a rhythm, and so did Dom Pointer, who has regressed to the point of being more of a hindrance than a help when he enters the game.

That said, if Lavin is staying, and really looks like he is, we're going to need help. Clearly, he, and his staff were not capable of recognizing what needed to be done until we were in a gigantic hole. Then, once guys like Harrison and Sampson had an off night, we were done. An upperclassmen team shouldn't need until February to figure things out. That is 100% on Lavin. He didn't have it figured out, and therefore, the players were playing confused for 2/3 of the season.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 10:24:47 AM by Poison »

jayro

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #173 on: March 19, 2014, 10:24:33 AM »
It's going to be a looong off season.  Enough blame to go around from staff to players- in this last game I put most of it on the players-they didn't bring their A game-they didn't even bring their D game.  How a player doesn't bring their A game to a tourney is beyond me. Coach shouldn't have to try and lift them up to play hard.  IMO true ballers bring it every night.  Their effort was embarrassing. I shudder to think what "possible recruits" will think of SJU after such an empty showing.  There are no excuses for the lack of effort. I never bad mouth the players when they try-however, the lack of effort does not get a pass - they stunk up the joint and they know it. 
I wish God's Gift, Sanchez and Bourgolt (sp?) all the best. I do think that Gift deserves props for playing hard and excelling as a student.
At the same time those players that do return next season need to look in the mirror and not point fingers - it's on each one of them to raise their level of play. Yeah, the coach has some input on the improvement of players, but in the end it is up to the players and how hard they are willing to work that determines how much they improve - Improve in skills and MIND set. If you're not willing to give it your all- why bother.
I wish the entire team and staff well, and hope that this season makes them much stronger for the coming years - guys, it's on you - if you WANT it- you can get it.

Poison

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #174 on: March 19, 2014, 10:26:56 AM »
It's going to be a looong off season.  Enough blame to go around from staff to players- in this last game I put most of it on the players-they didn't bring their A game-they didn't even bring their D game.  How a player doesn't bring their A game to a tourney is beyond me. Coach shouldn't have to try and lift them up to play hard.  IMO true ballers bring it every night.  Their effort was embarrassing. I shudder to think what "possible recruits" will think of SJU after such an empty showing.  There are no excuses for the lack of effort. I never bad mouth the players when they try-however, the lack of effort does not get a pass - they stunk up the joint and they know it. 
I wish God's Gift, Sanchez and Bourgolt (sp?) all the best. I do think that Gift deserves props for playing hard and excelling as a student.
At the same time those players that do return next season need to look in the mirror and not point fingers - it's on each one of them to raise their level of play. Yeah, the coach has some input on the improvement of players, but in the end it is up to the players and how hard they are willing to work that determines how much they improve - Improve in skills and MIND set. If you're not willing to give it your all- why bother.
I wish the entire team and staff well, and hope that this season makes them much stronger for the coming years - guys, it's on you - if you WANT it- you can get it.

To be fair, we are not the first team to not care about the NIT. Many teams who had legit NCAA hopes, suffer from the hangover. Our guys just think they're better than they are. They've never danced, so this should have been taken more seriously. They didn't deserve an NCAA bid. It's that simple.

nudginator59

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #175 on: March 19, 2014, 11:02:56 AM »
The AD is in a tough position...if SJU advanced and made it to MSG I think  the argument could be made the team made progress.  After the last nights game combined with the Providence game there seems to be something wrong with the program...Maybe it was just a disappointing way to end a disappointing year, or Lavin's style and coaching are flawed...Either way you need to extend him so he can recruit or fire him and have somebody come in now and start rebuilding again...This would be the time to make the switch if the AD were to do it.

The AD has some wiggle room because there is no President at the moment to breathe down his neck but he has to be feeling some pressure.
Cougar O' Malley

Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #176 on: March 19, 2014, 11:07:43 AM »
The team definitely made progress.  It wasn't enough progress to make us content, but the program is better today than it was this time last year.  Going from 17 wins and barely making the NIT to a sure fire tournament team is a pretty big leap.

If we are a 20+ win team every year, making the tournament more often than not, and making a somewhat deep run every 4 years, that is a success for St Johns.  Need to recalibrate expectations.

Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #177 on: March 19, 2014, 11:08:30 AM »
Also, the only people who care about a poor NIT performance are people on this board.  Winning a game or two in the NIT is irrelevant big picture.

nudginator59

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #178 on: March 19, 2014, 11:28:09 AM »
Also, the only people who care about a poor NIT performance are people on this board.  Winning a game or two in the NIT is irrelevant big picture.

Gray the concern is the overall drama that has occured under Lavin's reign. Can you honestly tell me that your not expecting something bad to happen over the summer? At least UK played hard last year and it seems every year UK is rebuilding so there is reason why UK may miss the tournament. This team has depth and experience and it's not the fact that they fell short that's the issue (it happens) it's their give-a-shatter meter is broken. Not running back on defense chucking more 3s then lay ups with the other team only having 7 players!  I'm not in favor to fire Lavin for the hell of lot like we did with Roberts (we lucked out with Lavin), but asking the program to show something more then optimism isn't a redicolous request either.
Cougar O' Malley

Tha Kid

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Re: Why does this staff deserve an extension?
« Reply #179 on: March 19, 2014, 11:29:55 AM »
Also, the only people who care about a poor NIT performance are people on this board.  Winning a game or two in the NIT is irrelevant big picture.

It goes to the lack of control the staff has over the players, and goes to show the mental lapses the players take.  It is not a good sign when there are guys like Branch and Hooper who are giving their all, while others are taking the game off because they don't care anymore.
"I drink and I know things"