Thanks Coach Lavin, good luck

Imo, the best bet would probably be to extend Lavin for 3 years and see if the Hurleys or someone like Orlando Antigua prove themselves as a viable candidate.

I think this is reasonable, especially if Lavin is set to bring in a competitive recruiting class.  And it appears he may be.
But I would insist on some changes from him.   I've mentioned this before, but I think the AD should insist on some changes to his coaching staff.   Lavin has surrounded himself with a lot of his former players, and the results just haven't been there.  I don't know if it's Rico or Tony or martin or whitesell's fault, but I do know that some change is necessaey, and that the team was seemingly better when dunlap was assisting steve.
I think hiring an associate head coach of the ADs  choosing would be the equivalent of telling a football cosch he needs to change coordinators. 
The coach won't like it, but the program is more important than his feelings.   Even Coughlin had it done to him.  He would've stuck with Gilbride forever, but Mara and Reese forced him to make a change.
Monasch needs to do that.

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on January 26, 2015, 11:53:41 PM

Imo, the best bet would probably be to extend Lavin for 3 years and see if the Hurleys or someone like Orlando Antigua prove themselves as a viable candidate.

I think this is reasonable, especially if Lavin is set to bring in a competitive recruiting class.  And it appears he may be.
But I would insist on some changes from him.   I've mentioned this before, but I think the AD should insist on some changes to his coaching staff.   Lavin has surrounded himself with a lot of his former players, and the results just haven't been there.  I don't know if it's Rico or Tony or martin or whitesell's fault, but I do know that some change is necessaey, and that the team was seemingly better when dunlap was assisting steve.
I think hiring an associate head coach of the ADs  choosing would be the equivalent of telling a football cosch he needs to change coordinators. 
The coach won't like it, but the program is more important than his feelings.   Even Coughlin had it done to him.  He would've stuck with Gilbride forever, but Mara and Reese forced him to make a change.
Monasch needs to do that.

Lavin should have hired Tim O'Toole when he was doing radio here after Dunlap left. Instead he gave the job to Darrick Martin

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:58:16 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:52:00 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:18:18 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:13:40 PM

if we played either Dayton or Iowa we would beat them more then we would lose. Are either better? Both of these guys are more comparable then significantly better

We just lost to freakin DePaul and had Marquette give us a scare at home and you're telling me we would beat Dayton and Iowa more than we would lose? We might split with Dayton in a 10 game series, we lose to Iowa 8 out of 10 times. I don't know what world people live in sometimes. I really don't

We beat Syracuse. Iowa lost to them. We beat Minnesota by 9 they won by 2. Only same opponents. Sorry you lost your argument. Maybe Fran is a better coach but its not a slam dunk. What world do you live in? By the way Dayton is only playing 5/6 guys coach must be an idiot.

Iowa also beat UNC at the Dean Dome and swept Ohio State this season. Give Lavin an NBA team and he wouldn't do that.

Archie took Dayton to an elite 8. Let me repeat. Archie Miller took Dayton to an elite 8. And unlike Lavin, Archie knows how to coach a team that is down to 5-6 guys and is beating the teams they are supposed to beat.

Which up and coming coach do you think would come to St. John's?

Richard Pitino or Bobby Hurley - both would take the job I think...

Or Danny H?  The ship seems to have sailed with Masiello

Quote from: sjulaw1991 on January 26, 2015, 01:50:53 PM

Will take 6 more years of Lavin over 1 with Norm.

The range of options isn't just Lavin or Norm.   We could be better, we could be worse, we could be about the same.   But firing Lavin doesn't mean we revert to the Norm days.

Also, I'm so sick of hearing about "relevancy", and the benefits of having SL as the face of the program.   Do you know who fans talk about and the media covers?  Guys who win.    calhoun, knight, izzo, self ...I have doorknobs with more personality than those guys.    The program doesn't need a promoter, a ringleader, or a pr guy... just a competent basketball coach. 

Desco, thanks for getting this thread back on topic, what a ridiculous couple of pages it had become. And I agree, win and all the attention will come. But you have to admit, even with Lavin's mild level of success there has been plenty of attention given to sju hoops during his tenure. Some good and some bad. I feel we are as relevant as we have been in the last 10-15 years. Perhaps that means little, but it doesnt mean nothing.

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on January 26, 2015, 10:01:13 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:58:16 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:52:00 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:18:18 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:13:40 PM

if we played either Dayton or Iowa we would beat them more then we would lose. Are either better? Both of these guys are more comparable then significantly better

We just lost to freakin DePaul and had Marquette give us a scare at home and you're telling me we would beat Dayton and Iowa more than we would lose? We might split with Dayton in a 10 game series, we lose to Iowa 8 out of 10 times. I don't know what world people live in sometimes. I really don't

We beat Syracuse. Iowa lost to them. We beat Minnesota by 9 they won by 2. Only same opponents. Sorry you lost your argument. Maybe Fran is a better coach but its not a slam dunk. What world do you live in? By the way Dayton is only playing 5/6 guys coach must be an idiot.

Iowa also beat UNC at the Dean Dome and swept Ohio State this season. Give Lavin an NBA team and he wouldn't do that.

Archie took Dayton to an elite 8. Let me repeat. Archie Miller took Dayton to an elite 8. And unlike Lavin, Archie knows how to coach a team that is down to 5-6 guys and is beating the teams they are supposed to beat.

Which up and coming coach do you think would come to St. John's?

Richard Pitino or Bobby Hurley - both would take the job I think...

IMO, neither are proven winnings yet. If they can build their current programs over the next 3-4 years and Lavin can't then make the change.

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on January 26, 2015, 11:53:41 PM

Imo, the best bet would probably be to extend Lavin for 3 years and see if the Hurleys or someone like Orlando Antigua prove themselves as a viable candidate.

I think this is reasonable, especially if Lavin is set to bring in a competitive recruiting class.  And it appears he may be.

But I would insist on some changes from him.   I've mentioned this before, but I think the AD should insist on some changes to his coaching staff.   Lavin has surrounded himself with a lot of his former players, and the results just haven't been there.  I don't know if it's Rico or Tony or martin or whitesell's fault, but I do know that some change is necessaey, and that the team was seemingly better when dunlap was assisting steve.
I think hiring an associate head coach of the ADs  choosing would be the equivalent of telling a football cosch he needs to change coordinators. 
The coach won't like it, but the program is more important than his feelings.   Even Coughlin had it done to him.  He would've stuck with Gilbride forever, but Mara and Reese forced him to make a change.
Monasch needs to do that.

Maybe but like you said it pretty hard to determine who is the issue on the staff that can be replaced.

Quote from: pmg911 on January 27, 2015, 10:03:35 AM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on January 26, 2015, 10:01:13 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:58:16 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:52:00 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:18:18 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:13:40 PM

if we played either Dayton or Iowa we would beat them more then we would lose. Are either better? Both of these guys are more comparable then significantly better

We just lost to freakin DePaul and had Marquette give us a scare at home and you're telling me we would beat Dayton and Iowa more than we would lose? We might split with Dayton in a 10 game series, we lose to Iowa 8 out of 10 times. I don't know what world people live in sometimes. I really don't

We beat Syracuse. Iowa lost to them. We beat Minnesota by 9 they won by 2. Only same opponents. Sorry you lost your argument. Maybe Fran is a better coach but its not a slam dunk. What world do you live in? By the way Dayton is only playing 5/6 guys coach must be an idiot.

Iowa also beat UNC at the Dean Dome and swept Ohio State this season. Give Lavin an NBA team and he wouldn't do that.

Archie took Dayton to an elite 8. Let me repeat. Archie Miller took Dayton to an elite 8. And unlike Lavin, Archie knows how to coach a team that is down to 5-6 guys and is beating the teams they are supposed to beat.

Which up and coming coach do you think would come to St. John's?

Richard Pitino or Bobby Hurley - both would take the job I think...

IMO, neither are proven winnings yet. If they can build their current programs over the next 3-4 years and Lavin can't then make the change.

Thats the risk you take with buying late. Does any coache these days look at St. John's as their dream job? Could we get a Richard Pitino after he was successful for 3-4 years?

 I will give lavin credit for this, he has raised the level of the program since he has got here. The st john's job is more attractive now then when he was hired. Roster question marks and all.

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on January 27, 2015, 10:55:29 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on January 27, 2015, 10:03:35 AM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on January 26, 2015, 10:01:13 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:58:16 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:52:00 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:18:18 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:13:40 PM

if we played either Dayton or Iowa we would beat them more then we would lose. Are either better? Both of these guys are more comparable then significantly better

We just lost to freakin DePaul and had Marquette give us a scare at home and you're telling me we would beat Dayton and Iowa more than we would lose? We might split with Dayton in a 10 game series, we lose to Iowa 8 out of 10 times. I don't know what world people live in sometimes. I really don't

We beat Syracuse. Iowa lost to them. We beat Minnesota by 9 they won by 2. Only same opponents. Sorry you lost your argument. Maybe Fran is a better coach but its not a slam dunk. What world do you live in? By the way Dayton is only playing 5/6 guys coach must be an idiot.

Iowa also beat UNC at the Dean Dome and swept Ohio State this season. Give Lavin an NBA team and he wouldn't do that.

Archie took Dayton to an elite 8. Let me repeat. Archie Miller took Dayton to an elite 8. And unlike Lavin, Archie knows how to coach a team that is down to 5-6 guys and is beating the teams they are supposed to beat.

Which up and coming coach do you think would come to St. John's?

Richard Pitino or Bobby Hurley - both would take the job I think...

IMO, neither are proven winnings yet. If they can build their current programs over the next 3-4 years and Lavin can't then make the change.

Thats the risk you take with buying late. Does any coache these days look at St. John's as their dream job? Could we get a Richard Pitino after he was successful for 3-4 years?

 I will give lavin credit for this, he has raised the level of the program since he has got here. The st john's job is more attractive now then when he was hired. Roster question marks and all.

True.
the Fox $ also helps.  That was what? A 12 year contract?  So coaches know the league is viable for the longterm.
And in regards to your other post, I do agree Mase, Lavin has helped at that means something because we were on the verge of becoming almost Fordham-esque.
But it rubs me the wrong way when fans argue we should keep the coach because he's telegenic  or has us in the paper more than Norm ever did.
I think even a mildly successful coach will be covered just fine by the media in nyc.  It's not one of my bigger concerns at this point.   Also, we know the money is there to hire another coach at 1-2 $ mil per year.   That wasn't the case before Lavin.

Quote from: desco80 on January 27, 2015, 09:20:13 AM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on January 26, 2015, 11:53:41 PM

Imo, the best bet would probably be to extend Lavin for 3 years and see if the Hurleys or someone like Orlando Antigua prove themselves as a viable candidate.

I think this is reasonable, especially if Lavin is set to bring in a competitive recruiting class.  And it appears he may be.

But I would insist on some changes from him.   I've mentioned this before, but I think the AD should insist on some changes to his coaching staff.   Lavin has surrounded himself with a lot of his former players, and the results just haven't been there.  I don't know if it's Rico or Tony or martin or whitesell's fault, but I do know that some change is necessaey, and that the team was seemingly better when dunlap was assisting steve.
I think hiring an associate head coach of the ADs  choosing would be the equivalent of telling a football cosch he needs to change coordinators. 
The coach won't like it, but the program is more important than his feelings.   Even Coughlin had it done to him.  He would've stuck with Gilbride forever, but Mara and Reese forced him to make a change.
Monasch needs to do that.

Maybe but like you said it pretty hard to determine who is the issue on the staff that can be replaced.

Agreed 75.  But hopefully the AD or those closer to the program have a better idea of each coach's contributions.   But I think plenty of programs have associate head coaches who run practices.   Practice planning in itself can be a full time job.  As is advanced scouting, and game preparation. 

I have two lists for the next coach.
The first one (money not an issue)
1. Jim Calhoun w/ Steve Pikell as Coach in Waiting
I mentioned this previous thread, I hate Uconn but if he came in here like Larry Brown has done down at SMU(minus the scandal) I would sign up for it in a minute. The guy is one of the greats. Pikell is a solid coach has  done everything at SB but go to the Tourney.
2. Ben Howland- went to three final fours at UCLA,rebuilt Pitt great defensive coach. Would be a great fit and get tough ball players. Has East Coast mentality that they don't appreciate in la la land.
3. Bruce Pearl- has won everywhere he has been. Media darling and I believe would get our alumni/student body really involved while winning. Auburn made a great hire.
4. Shaka Smart-one of the best coaches in the game. I doubt he would come here but, definitely a great choice if money not an issue.
5. Tom Crean- has done a solid job at IU (2 sweet 16's)was great at Marquette. If he did the job he has done at IU we would give him a statue.
Money is an issue
1. Zack Spiker-the guy is winning at Army, get him a recruiter like at Matty A or Jared Grasso on the staff. Definitely an up an comer.
2. the Hurley bros (tie) I would take either one of them. I am partial to Bobby I think he has done really well for being a Head Coach for only a year and half.  Has the Coach K connection along with his dad. One of best college pg's to play the game(was the glue of those Duke teams) and played in the NBA.
3. Andy Toole- Only 34 years old and has won 100 games at Robert Morris. Is originally from Staten Island.
4. Will Brown-Has built a solid program at Albany and from Strong Island.
5. Tim Cluess -Every where he has been he has won!! I think this would be his dream job. Get him a assistant assigned to defense.

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on January 26, 2015, 10:01:13 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:58:16 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:52:00 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 26, 2015, 09:18:18 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2015, 09:13:40 PM

if we played either Dayton or Iowa we would beat them more then we would lose. Are either better? Both of these guys are more comparable then significantly better

We just lost to freakin DePaul and had Marquette give us a scare at home and you're telling me we would beat Dayton and Iowa more than we would lose? We might split with Dayton in a 10 game series, we lose to Iowa 8 out of 10 times. I don't know what world people live in sometimes. I really don't

We beat Syracuse. Iowa lost to them. We beat Minnesota by 9 they won by 2. Only same opponents. Sorry you lost your argument. Maybe Fran is a better coach but its not a slam dunk. What world do you live in? By the way Dayton is only playing 5/6 guys coach must be an idiot.

Iowa also beat UNC at the Dean Dome and swept Ohio State this season. Give Lavin an NBA team and he wouldn't do that.

Archie took Dayton to an elite 8. Let me repeat. Archie Miller took Dayton to an elite 8. And unlike Lavin, Archie knows how to coach a team that is down to 5-6 guys and is beating the teams they are supposed to beat.

Which up and coming coach do you think would come to St. John's?

Richard Pitino or Bobby Hurley - both would take the job I think...

If one or both of those guys would actually come here (not sure Pitino would, but I could be wrong) and we keep Lavin instead of going after those guys then this program deserves the mediocrity it has and will continue to experience. Both of those guys would be home run hires

Quote from: sjulaw1991 on January 26, 2015, 01:50:53 PM

Will take 6 more years of Lavin over 1 with Norm.

The range of options isn't just Lavin or Norm.   We could be better, we could be worse, we could be about the same.   But firing Lavin doesn't mean we revert to the Norm days.

Also, I'm so sick of hearing about "relevancy", and the benefits of having SL as the face of the program.   Do you know who fans talk about and the media covers?  Guys who win.    calhoun, knight, izzo, self ...I have doorknobs with more personality than those guys.    The program doesn't need a promoter, a ringleader, or a pr guy... just a competent basketball coach.

The end results? Lavin=Norm   They both don't get to the ncaa tournament.

Goredmen- just because u say it and believe it doesn't make it fact. Lavin killed Pitino this year. the  best thing about Hurley is his last name. Last names don't win games.

Goredmen- just because u say it and believe it doesn't make it fact. Lavin killed Pitino this year. the  best thing about Hurley is his last name. Last names don't win games.

I am aware of the difference between facts and opinions thank you for clarifying though. Constant spin and moral victories don't win games either as evidenced by the last 4 years of St John's basketball under Head Coach Steve Lavin

In the future, I will make sure to add IMO after I post an opinion so everybody knows that my previous statement in an opinion

Goredmen- just because u say it and believe it doesn't make it fact. Lavin killed Pitino this year. the  best thing about Hurley is his last name. Last names don't win games.

Lavin beat Boeheim this year too. And beat Coach K in 2011. Is he a better coach than them too?

We lost to Duke. They have like 9 MCD's  AA and have a 7-8 man rotation. How many MCD AA do we have? Many of you have no idea about coaching and simply let the results speak for themselves. The bottom line is Lavin is doing a good job with these players. If anything he should be criticized for not finding a replacement for Moe and Sampson, that is the real issue. His coaching isn't the issue. Our players have severe limitations. We were in the game because Dom was playing out of his mind, its how he should be playing every game, but he doesn't. With D'lo hurting both Dom and Jordan stepped up in the first half but disappeared in the second half. The difference is and will always be, do our players make plays. It wasn't a brilliant coaching job done by Coach K that brought Duke back. He didn't design some magical play that was unstoppable. Duke players made plays, one on one, no back door cuts, no off ball screens, nothing. We run the same offense as they do except their players drive the ball to the basket, or pull up off the bounce and drill a 3. Its not coaching, its individual skill.

Lavin has brought in kids with a lot of potential but for the most part, offensively, Dom and Branch hasn't panned out. Potential is what gets coaches fired. He needs to do a better job bringing in more well rounded players. That has been his failure. It's not the coaching. He has the ability to compete with and win a lot of the recruiting battles. You need talent to win, and Lavin is the best suited to bring in that talent. I'm frustrated so far with the season, but my frustration is with the roster construction, not X's and O's. Season isn't over yet, let it play out and hope these seniors end the careers at SJU on a high note.

We lost to Duke. They have like 9 MCD's  AA and have a 7-8 man rotation. How many MCD AA do we have? Many of you have no idea about coaching and simply let the results speak for themselves. The bottom line is Lavin is doing a good job with these players. If anything he should be criticized for not finding a replacement for Moe and Sampson, that is the real issue. His coaching isn't the issue. Our players have severe limitations. We were in the game because Dom was playing out of his mind, its how he should be playing every game, but he doesn't. With D'lo hurting both Dom and Jordan stepped up in the first half but disappeared in the second half. The difference is and will always be, do our players make plays. It wasn't a brilliant coaching job done by Coach K that brought Duke back. He didn't design some magical play that was unstoppable. Duke players made plays, one on one, no back door cuts, no off ball screens, nothing. We run the same offense as they do except their players drive the ball to the basket, or pull up off the bounce and drill a 3. Its not coaching, its individual skill.

Lavin has brought in kids with a lot of potential but for the most part, offensively, Dom and Branch hasn't panned out. Potential is what gets coaches fired. He needs to do a better job bringing in more well rounded players. That has been his failure. It's not the coaching. He has the ability to compete with and win a lot of the recruiting battles. You need talent to win, and Lavin is the best suited to bring in that talent. I'm frustrated so far with the season, but my frustration is with the roster construction, not X's and O's. Season isn't over yet, let it play out and hope these seniors end the careers at SJU on a high note.

His coaching lost us at least 2 games last year which cost us a shot at the NCAA tournament. I agree his actual in-game coaching has been somewhat better this year, but as you said, he's responsible for building the roster of players and having enough depth to be successful. He has failed in that regard, and in year 5 of his tenure, that is inexcusable, IMO.

Our fan base is so delusional.  This job has very little to almost no appeal, there is no big name coach lining up at the door... 

Now young Pitino or Hurley brothers are the key back to the glory days of the mid-eigthies? LOL

Goredmen- just because u say it and believe it doesn't make it fact. Lavin killed Pitino this year. the  best thing about Hurley is his last name. Last names don't win games.

Killed Pitino?