Are You Ready to Move on?

Quote from: goredmen on April 01, 2014, 11:52:31 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on April 01, 2014, 11:36:16 PM

Quote from: goredmen on April 01, 2014, 10:49:57 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on April 01, 2014, 10:43:58 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on April 01, 2014, 10:20:18 PM

Now there is only marginal talent on the boards if any at all.   

I have to disagree, there are plenty of talented kids available. They may not be highly ranked, but doesn't mean they are not there. Its up to the staff to find them. I for one am looking forward to seeing who they bring in. We got the ranked kids, D'lo, Sampson, Garrett, Dom, Branch, Obekpa. Where did that get us? You can't tell me that you haven't seen players on other teams that are better than ours, yet they weren't ranked out of HS. The talent is there, the athleticism may not be, but we need ball players and senior leadership. That's what I'm looking forward to getting out of the 14' class. We need ballplayers that will stay all four years and augment that with a couple of studs.

Maybe the staff playing guys out of position and not being the best at developing them is partially responsible for other team's unranked players playing better than our highly recruited players?

Where is this "not good at developing" theme coming from? Not every kid is going to become the player you hoped he would be, that doesn't mean the staff is bad at developing. Dom is the only player who you could say you hoped would have developed more. I've seen noticeable improvement out of Sampson and Obekpa from freshman to sophomore years.

You said in your previous post that "you can't tell me that you haven't seen players on other teams that are better than ours, yet they weren't ranked out of HS." So that means other team's players have developed better than ours, no? It just happened to be a coincidence that all of the players that recruiting services wound up overrating ended up here?

Let's look at Dwayne Polee as an example. He came in similar to Lavin's other guys in terms of being super athletic but very raw when it came to basketball skills. He went to SDSU and they have made a basketball player out of him when Lav and co never made Dom or Amir basketball players. Don't kid yourself into thinking that's just a coincidence and that Polee would have been as good for us as he was for SDSU if he never left here

Sampson and Obekpa seemed to be developing pretty well, why only single out Dom and Amir? Amir was never serious about basketball anyway, he just loves to play. It's not like Polee is doing something amazing, he showed he had some skill his freshman year so his performance isn't a surprise.

Sampson and Obekpa both took decreases in points per game, rebound per game and blocks per game. Both improved in some aspects of their game but I wouldn't necessarily classify either of their overall developments as good

Sampson ... seemed to be developing pretty well

Would that be the same Sampson you just this week described as a "terrible" rebounder and a "terrible" defender and who you said we would not miss at all because of his poor "free-throw shooting, passing, dribble penetrating, screening, decision making, etc, etc."? Or would that be a different Sampson?

My predictions:

Next big man that commits will be "The best rebounder Lavin has ever coached"
Next wing player that commits will "...remind [Coach Lavin] of Ed O'Bannon mixed with Jason Kapono"
Next Point Guard that commits will "Be the best passer since Jason Kidd".....oh wait...

Quote from: SJUFAN on April 02, 2014, 12:06:12 AM

Sampson ... seemed to be developing pretty well

Would that be the same Sampson you just this week described as a "terrible" rebounder and a "terrible" defender and who you said we would not miss at all because of his poor "free-throw shooting, passing, dribble penetrating, screening, decision making, etc, etc."? Or would that be a different Sampson?

I'm speaking about his offensive development, defensively, not sure how much he could improve. He is also better than anyone else we currently have at the four position and I've always thought he would get better (offensively) as his career progressed, it just wont be at SJU. A poor defender who could give you 18 points a game isn't bad, which I felt Sampson would be able to do in his senior year. I still feel that we can absorb his offensive lose and be better if we bring in some bigs who can defend and rebound.

Ideally, I like to build a team based on strong guard play and strong interior defense. Guard play is critical. We have the guards, we just need to beef up inside. I felt we scored enough points to win most of our games, it was our defense/rebounding that let us down.   

I simply cannot understand some of the delusional people on here who still think a great 2015 class full of elite caliber recruits is coming.
Was it not well understood  by all at the beginning of the season that the big 2015 class with guys like Diallo & Briscoe depended very much on this season being very successful?
Now some of the Lavin defenders here push this notion that we are still major contenders for these future NBAers. These are the same guys who are quick to point out that we are not Kentucky or Kansas, yet they think these elite guys will come here now. Indiana and UNC can have down years and miss the tourney and still pull in a top 10 class the following year. SJU needs to show that we are on the right path and prove something. Without that no one great is coming.

No great 2015 class is coming! The writing is on the wall. Its over. Time for the self deception to stop.

I simply cannot understand some of the delusional people on here who still think a great 2015 class full of elite caliber recruits is coming here.
Was it not well understood  by all that the big 2015 class with guys like Diallo & Briscoe depended very much on this season being very successful?
Now some of the Lavin defenders here push this notion that he is still major contenders for these future NBAers. These are the same guys who are quick to point out that we are not Kentucky or Kansas, yet they think these elite guys will come here now. Indiana and UNC can have down years and miss the tourney and still pull in a top 10 class the following year. SJU needs to show that we are on the right path and prove something. Without that no one great is coming.

No great 2015 class is coming! The writing is on the wall. Its over. Time for the self deception to stop.

Reality check is coming when Obekpa transfers.  Our preception of a program circling the drain should then hit home with even the most optimistic supporters, although there will likely be some even then who will refuse to acknowledge the ship has sunk. 

I'm speaking about his offensive development, defensively, not sure how much he could improve.

So he's terrible at some things and poor at others and yet his improvement demonstrates Steve Lavin's ability to develop talent. No doubt it's just that sort of versatility that has NBA GM's drooling.

Reality check is coming when Obekpa transfers.  Our preception of a program circling the drain should then hit home with even the most optimistic supporters, although there will likely be some even then who will refuse to acknowledge the ship has sunk. 

Perhaps you missed the memo. Obekpa was a cancer and this will be addition by subtraction. Nurideen Lindsey was a also cancer, ditto. Harrison was a cancer but is in remission. Dwayne Polee was a polyp and would have turned into a cancer had he not been removed in time. Same with Norvel Pelle. Amir Garrett, Malik Stith, Omari Lawrence and Quincy Roberts were excrescences, biopsies inconclusive but better safe than sorry.

Quote from: DFF6 on April 02, 2014, 10:23:10 AM

Reality check is coming when Obekpa transfers.  Our preception of a program circling the drain should then hit home with even the most optimistic supporters, although there will likely be some even then who will refuse to acknowledge the ship has sunk. 

Perhaps you missed the memo. Obekpa was a cancer and this will be addition by subtraction. Nurideen Lindsey was a also cancer, ditto. Harrison was a cancer but is in remission. Dwayne Polee was a polyp and would have turned into a cancer had he not been removed in time. Same with Norvel Pelle. Amir Garrett, Malik Stith, Omari Lawrence and Quincy Roberts were excrescences, biopsies inconclusive but better safe than sorry.

excrescences.  A+.

Quote from: DFF6 on April 02, 2014, 10:23:10 AM

Reality check is coming when Obekpa transfers.  Our preception of a program circling the drain should then hit home with even the most optimistic supporters, although there will likely be some even then who will refuse to acknowledge the ship has sunk. 

Perhaps you missed the memo. Obekpa was a cancer and this will be addition by subtraction. Nurideen Lindsey was a also cancer, ditto. Harrison was a cancer but is in remission. Dwayne Polee was a polyp and would have turned into a cancer had he not been removed in time. Same with Norvel Pelle. Amir Garrett, Malik Stith, Omari Lawrence and Quincy Roberts were excrescences, biopsies inconclusive but better safe than sorry.

LOL!  Sorry, I did miss that memo.  But memos of that sort have been, and will continue to be, authored by irrational people, and in the words of Scott Adams (creator of Dilbert): "Trying to win an argument with an irrational person is like trying to teach a cat to snorkel by providing written instructions. No matter how clear your instructions, it won’t work. Your best strategy is to reduce the time you spend in that sort of situation."

I think Y'All be buggin.  To the casual fan the team is doing well.  Also, if you think that a big name coach is coming here you been smokin the good stuff.  Also, no way they replace Lavin with a young up and coming coach.   Big Time donors wouldn't go for it.

Say what you want about snake oil salesmen they do sell that snake oil...

Quote from: DFF6 on April 02, 2014, 10:23:10 AM

Reality check is coming when Obekpa transfers.  Our preception of a program circling the drain should then hit home with even the most optimistic supporters, although there will likely be some even then who will refuse to acknowledge the ship has sunk. 

Perhaps you missed the memo. Obekpa was a cancer and this will be addition by subtraction. Nurideen Lindsey was a also cancer, ditto. Harrison was a cancer but is in remission. Dwayne Polee was a polyp and would have turned into a cancer had he not been removed in time. Same with Norvel Pelle. Amir Garrett, Malik Stith, Omari Lawrence and Quincy Roberts were excrescences, biopsies inconclusive but better safe than sorry.

You could add Jordan to that list as well. If we were to have anymore defections (Obekpa)  the staff has to answer for it. They need to look into the mirror and either change their attitude toward how they are handling the players, or bring in kids that fit the culture they are trying to build. Either way its disappointing for the fan base. It would be really difficult to get excited for the upcoming season if we lose Obekpa. With him, I can remain optimistic.   

Quote from: Foad on April 02, 2014, 10:40:28 AM

Quote from: DFF6 on April 02, 2014, 10:23:10 AM

Reality check is coming when Obekpa transfers.  Our preception of a program circling the drain should then hit home with even the most optimistic supporters, although there will likely be some even then who will refuse to acknowledge the ship has sunk. 

Perhaps you missed the memo. Obekpa was a cancer and this will be addition by subtraction. Nurideen Lindsey was a also cancer, ditto. Harrison was a cancer but is in remission. Dwayne Polee was a polyp and would have turned into a cancer had he not been removed in time. Same with Norvel Pelle. Amir Garrett, Malik Stith, Omari Lawrence and Quincy Roberts were excrescences, biopsies inconclusive but better safe than sorry.

excrescences.  A+.

Thanks Foad, now I have to learn something just to finish laughing at your post.  The nerve....

Quote from: SJUFAN on April 02, 2014, 10:12:33 AM

I'm speaking about his offensive development, defensively, not sure how much he could improve.

So he's terrible at some things and poor at others and yet his improvement demonstrates Steve Lavin's ability to develop talent. No doubt it's just that sort of versatility that has NBA GM's drooling.

Not Lavin, most likely Hines. There is a noticeable improvement in Sampson's shot, the hitch is not as noticeable as it was before. To make such an adjustment in one year and still be an effective outside shooter is nothing to sneeze at. That's development and believe his shot will continue to improve. That being said, his defense is terrible, and its why GM's may not draft him. Its not like he's Doug McD offensively.

Was it not well understood  by all at the beginning of the season that the big 2015 class with guys like Diallo & Briscoe depended very much on this season being very successful?

According to whom was this true? Posters may have put that out there but that's about it. Truth is we don't know what guys like Diallo & Briscoe are looking for. When weren't necessarily NCAA tournament main stays and we brought in some highly rated targets so it may not be reliant upon past success as much as you may think. They weren't part of the program, and with them, it could be successful. I'm sure that's part of the pitch. 

And SJUfan don't tell us there is good talent available.  Yes, some guys fly under the radar.  And it's possible to land a good player late in the game.  But all the major conference schools have secured their recruiting classes by now.
Could we find a key player? Sure.  But it's obvious that we are trying to play catch up.

I think it's true they are playing catch up in the event they lose Obekpa. I think the staff was not prepared to lose Obekpa and wasn't expecting it. I also believe they felt Sampson may stay as well. I feel if they thought Obekpa had that much of an attitude problem they should not have brought him in. They made their bed, now they need to lay in it. Swallow their pride and do what they can to keep him on board. He's not gone yet. IF Obekpa stays, replacing Sampson alone is challenging but doable, Sampson and Sanchez is a bit more difficult. I think they can find players to fill those roles, via JC or HS.

I hit c.

To me it seems like maybe Lavin just doesn`t care.
We`re losing players, No transfers are coming, Adonis (once a sure thing) now says we`re behind others.

What kind of a team will we have next year? In all seriousness.

Who here wants to start all over again in 2015-16 as the youngest team again.

People say: oh but who can we get? I`ll ask, so we should  just settle for Lavin?
We won`t be as good next year, and in 15 we`ll have mostly freshmen? You know the deal with that right? No NCAA for the next two years.

Lastly. Do we get a new coach to recruit the 15 class, or leave Lavin coach with no contract extension and no recruits come, because he`s a lame duck coach? I mean they can`t possibly extend him right?

Anyone want to bet that Obepka is  transfering? I will wager that does not happen. Takers?

Anyone want to bet that Obepka is  transfering? I will wager that does not happen. Takers?

We need him to return. It's not just a transfer that people are concerned about. He could go turn pro. Nevermind if he's good enough, because that didn't stop Jakarr.

Anyone want to bet that Obepka is  transfering? I will wager that does not happen. Takers?

We can make the NIT with or without him. Good riddance. Get someone in here who wants to play