Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #200 on: April 30, 2014, 11:09:43 AM »
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

No. 
I expect Jordan to be good, but truthfully nothing he did last season makes me think he's a contender for BE POY.   
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

Fordham and Boo,
How much better did D'angelo get from fresh to soph year?   Jakarr?   Obekpa?   Dom?
Why do you assume that Jordan will go from being a good player to BE POY?    Or that Obekpa will suddenly be much better than he was last year?

Kids improve incrementally.   9 times out of 10, when a kid has a "breakout season", it's because he suddenly gets a lot more playing time.   It's the exception to the rule when someone's skills improve so drastically in such a short period of time.

You could see the jump both him and the team made when he got increased playing time. He averaged 13,3,3 in BE play. Now there is 10+ shots to go around plus the fact that he was already going to be taking more shots. D'lo didnt have a big numbers jump because he was one of six players on the team his freshman year! and only two of them shot. Is it that hard to believe that Rysheed will take the next step from 13,3,3 to 15,5,5?  If you have one guard who does that and another who gets you 17+ you have the makings of a good basketball team.
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #201 on: April 30, 2014, 11:18:57 AM »
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

No. 
I expect Jordan to be good, but truthfully nothing he did last season makes me think he's a contender for BE POY.   
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

Fordham and Boo,
How much better did D'angelo get from fresh to soph year?   Jakarr?   Obekpa?   Dom?
Why do you assume that Jordan will go from being a good player to BE POY?    Or that Obekpa will suddenly be much better than he was last year?

Kids improve incrementally.   9 times out of 10, when a kid has a "breakout season", it's because he suddenly gets a lot more playing time.   It's the exception to the rule when someone's skills improve so drastically in such a short period of time.

JaKarr was significantly better and so was D’lo.  I don’t even think it is close.

Obekpa was SO much better offensively second half of this past season until the injury.

Keep in mind guys like D’lo were asked to do too much their freshmen year because of no depth.

Also Rysheed is unique because he faced both a suspension and several missed games because of serious family issues and health.  And he is probably the most talented player on the team.  Those things were a huge detriment to his development.  Don’t anticipate anything like that.

hnk

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #202 on: April 30, 2014, 11:25:21 AM »
In addition for the most part , early to mid-season he was almost always in foul trouble.

cjfish

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #203 on: April 30, 2014, 11:29:48 AM »
Sheed's upside this year is all BE and possibly POY.  His improvement last year was dramatic,, particularly considering his personal problems.  With his size, quickness, passing ability and improved J his potential this year is incredible.  definite PRO, JUST HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE HOW LONG HE STICKS AROUND.  Im thinking at this point he will be gone after junior year.  Hopefully he doesn't go to early like Jakarr.

DFF6

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #204 on: April 30, 2014, 11:39:22 AM »
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

No. 
I expect Jordan to be good, but truthfully nothing he did last season makes me think he's a contender for BE POY.   
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

Fordham and Boo,
How much better did D'angelo get from fresh to soph year?   Jakarr?   Obekpa?   Dom?
Why do you assume that Jordan will go from being a good player to BE POY?    Or that Obekpa will suddenly be much better than he was last year?

Kids improve incrementally.   9 times out of 10, when a kid has a "breakout season", it's because he suddenly gets a lot more playing time.   It's the exception to the rule when someone's skills improve so drastically in such a short period of time.

JaKarr was significantly better and so was D’lo.  I don’t even think it is close.

Obekpa was SO much better offensively second half of this past season until the injury.

Keep in mind guys like D’lo were asked to do too much their freshmen year because of no depth.

Also Rysheed is unique because he faced both a suspension and several missed games because of serious family issues and health.  And he is probably the most talented player on the team.  Those things were a huge detriment to his development.  Don’t anticipate anything like that.


The numbers do not support your assertion that JaKarr was "significantly better" in his sophomore year. 


desco80

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #205 on: April 30, 2014, 11:51:32 AM »
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

No. 
I expect Jordan to be good, but truthfully nothing he did last season makes me think he's a contender for BE POY.   
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

Fordham and Boo,
How much better did D'angelo get from fresh to soph year?   Jakarr?   Obekpa?   Dom?
Why do you assume that Jordan will go from being a good player to BE POY?    Or that Obekpa will suddenly be much better than he was last year?

Kids improve incrementally.   9 times out of 10, when a kid has a "breakout season", it's because he suddenly gets a lot more playing time.   It's the exception to the rule when someone's skills improve so drastically in such a short period of time.

You could see the jump both him and the team made when he got increased playing time. He averaged 13,3,3 in BE play. Now there is 10+ shots to go around plus the fact that he was already going to be taking more shots. D'lo didnt have a big numbers jump because he was one of six players on the team his freshman year! and only two of them shot. Is it that hard to believe that Rysheed will take the next step from 13,3,3 to 15,5,5?  If you have one guard who does that and another who gets you 17+ you have the makings of a good basketball team.

I absolutely think Jordan can be a 15, 5, 5 guy.   That's realistic improvement.   But how much more efficient is Rysheed than Jakarr/Sanchez? 
If he gets 3 more points and 2 more assists, on say 10 extra possessions... how much better are we than if Jakarr or Sanchez shot the ball on those possessions?   
D'angelo and Jordan need to be more efficient next season.  That is the next step in their development.

But I still say that as fans we make the mistake of thinking that players will significantly improve from season to season.  They usually don't.
Opportunity, minutes played, and the number of shots they take changes.   

Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #206 on: April 30, 2014, 12:05:24 PM »
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

No. 
I expect Jordan to be good, but truthfully nothing he did last season makes me think he's a contender for BE POY.   
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

Fordham and Boo,
How much better did D'angelo get from fresh to soph year?   Jakarr?   Obekpa?   Dom?
Why do you assume that Jordan will go from being a good player to BE POY?    Or that Obekpa will suddenly be much better than he was last year?

Kids improve incrementally.   9 times out of 10, when a kid has a "breakout season", it's because he suddenly gets a lot more playing time.   It's the exception to the rule when someone's skills improve so drastically in such a short period of time.

You could see the jump both him and the team made when he got increased playing time. He averaged 13,3,3 in BE play. Now there is 10+ shots to go around plus the fact that he was already going to be taking more shots. D'lo didnt have a big numbers jump because he was one of six players on the team his freshman year! and only two of them shot. Is it that hard to believe that Rysheed will take the next step from 13,3,3 to 15,5,5?  If you have one guard who does that and another who gets you 17+ you have the makings of a good basketball team.

I absolutely think Jordan can be a 15, 5, 5 guy.   That's realistic improvement.   But how much more efficient is Rysheed than Jakarr/Sanchez? 
If he gets 3 more points and 2 more assists, on say 10 extra possessions... how much better are we than if Jakarr or Sanchez shot the ball on those possessions?   
D'angelo and Jordan need to be more efficient next season.  That is the next step in their development.

But I still say that as fans we make the mistake of thinking that players will significantly improve from season to season.  They usually don't.
Opportunity, minutes played, and the number of shots they take changes.   

You make good points Desco, its just a matter of opinion I guess. I will say this, a big difference between lets say Jakarr or Sanchez taking a 17 footer and Rysheed taking one is that when the bigs take it there is much smaller chance of getting an offense rebound. Ive always said that an offensive rebound is the equivalent to a steal, taking away a possession from the other team. Were talking 3 maybe 4 more possessions a game that could be generated. Might not seem like much but it is huge.
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

desco80

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #207 on: April 30, 2014, 12:16:01 PM »
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

No. 
I expect Jordan to be good, but truthfully nothing he did last season makes me think he's a contender for BE POY.   
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

Fordham and Boo,
How much better did D'angelo get from fresh to soph year?   Jakarr?   Obekpa?   Dom?
Why do you assume that Jordan will go from being a good player to BE POY?    Or that Obekpa will suddenly be much better than he was last year?

Kids improve incrementally.   9 times out of 10, when a kid has a "breakout season", it's because he suddenly gets a lot more playing time.   It's the exception to the rule when someone's skills improve so drastically in such a short period of time.

You could see the jump both him and the team made when he got increased playing time. He averaged 13,3,3 in BE play. Now there is 10+ shots to go around plus the fact that he was already going to be taking more shots. D'lo didnt have a big numbers jump because he was one of six players on the team his freshman year! and only two of them shot. Is it that hard to believe that Rysheed will take the next step from 13,3,3 to 15,5,5?  If you have one guard who does that and another who gets you 17+ you have the makings of a good basketball team.

I absolutely think Jordan can be a 15, 5, 5 guy.   That's realistic improvement.   But how much more efficient is Rysheed than Jakarr/Sanchez? 
If he gets 3 more points and 2 more assists, on say 10 extra possessions... how much better are we than if Jakarr or Sanchez shot the ball on those possessions?   
D'angelo and Jordan need to be more efficient next season.  That is the next step in their development.

But I still say that as fans we make the mistake of thinking that players will significantly improve from season to season.  They usually don't.
Opportunity, minutes played, and the number of shots they take changes.   

You make good points Desco, its just a matter of opinion I guess. I will say this, a big difference between lets say Jakarr or Sanchez taking a 17 footer and Rysheed taking one is that when the bigs take it there is much smaller chance of getting an offense rebound. Ive always said that an offensive rebound is the equivalent to a steal, taking away a possession from the other team. Were talking 3 maybe 4 more possessions a game that could be generated. Might not seem like much but it is huge.

Oh I totally agree with you on that Mase.   The little things absolutely add up.   1 or 2 more offensive boards, an extra steal, a loose ball, two more made free throws... all of a sudden your 8-10ppg better than you were a year ago.   I think that's where we could see the experience pay off. (hopefully)
I also think for some teams those little improvements happen as a result of coaching.   Unfortunately I dont think we have the advantage in that department.   But if the guys can do the little things just slightly better - it can have a big effect.

Poison

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #208 on: April 30, 2014, 01:30:50 PM »
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

No. 
I expect Jordan to be good, but truthfully nothing he did last season makes me think he's a contender for BE POY.   
You get the leading rebounder in the JUCO ranks, combine him with Delarosa and Pointer/Obepka/Jones up front with an All-League backcourt in Harrison/Jordan with Greene and Branch as bench help and that is plenty of size, speed and depth next year to win.  Thomas and Jones will more then make up for Sanchez, JaKarr hurts but Obekpa is not going to average 3-5 points like he did this year and Jordan will exponentially be better.





 The exact point I've been trying to make..  Jordan very well may go from an inconsistent, lost-looking frosh to a potential BE POY candidate... Harrison will be Harrison.. 

Fordham and Boo,
How much better did D'angelo get from fresh to soph year?   Jakarr?   Obekpa?   Dom?
Why do you assume that Jordan will go from being a good player to BE POY?    Or that Obekpa will suddenly be much better than he was last year?

Kids improve incrementally.   9 times out of 10, when a kid has a "breakout season", it's because he suddenly gets a lot more playing time.   It's the exception to the rule when someone's skills improve so drastically in such a short period of time.

JaKarr was significantly better and so was D’lo.  I don’t even think it is close.

Obekpa was SO much better offensively second half of this past season until the injury.

Keep in mind guys like D’lo were asked to do too much their freshmen year because of no depth.

Also Rysheed is unique because he faced both a suspension and several missed games because of serious family issues and health.  And he is probably the most talented player on the team.  Those things were a huge detriment to his development.  Don’t anticipate anything like that.


I don't subscribe to the idea that no one has improved under Lavin, but as much as I appreciate that Jakarr is a good kid, he didn't play within the team concept very often last year. Often he was played playing one type of defense, and the other guys were playing another. I don't have all of the numbers in front of me, but from what I saw, Jakarr didn't improve his all around game, but there were some improvements.

He started going to the basket more often in his soph year, and he became more confident with that 10 footer. It will be damn hard to replace that. By late December, he started to get into more of a groove offensively.

Where he really didn't improve IMO, is in his court awareness, which was probably the worst on the team of the regular rotation players. He didn't rebound as well as a talent like him could have. Some games he'd pull down 15, others, 2 or 3. If you're an NBA forward, you shouldn't be getting out rebounded by low level D1 players, and that happened regularly. Also, he doesn't know his role on the team. He doesn't have the handle, nor does he have the awareness to bring the ball up.

If you look at his freshman to soph season, it's a minor jump. And now, unfortunately for him, he just made a huge one that he's not ready for.

wpc77

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #209 on: May 01, 2014, 10:02:41 AM »
Back to Keith Thomas - it's 85 degress and partly cloudly in Miami today...Miami's scholarship breakdown is below.  They can only have 12 scholarship players due to sanctions.  So getting Thomas would put them at 12 if you count in their 2015 commit. I listed their bigs below in parenthesis as 4s or 5s.  As you can tell, they desperately need Thmoas for depth (sound familiar?), and probably to start upfront right away.

2011:  None
2012:  Jekiri, McClellan, Rodriguez, Uceda (4/5)
2013:   Lecomte, Reed
2014:  Burnett, Newton, Sherman (4), Palmer
2015:  A Lawrence Jr.

paultzman

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #210 on: May 01, 2014, 07:52:09 PM »
@NYPost_Brazille: Westchester CC's Keith Thomas visit to Miami delayed, source says. Didn't make trip hope to have more later. #sjubb

paultzman

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #211 on: May 01, 2014, 08:18:24 PM »
@AdamZagoria: Can confirm @NYPost_Brazille that WCC F Keith Thomas is not visiting Miami this weekend. Has been to #sjubb and USF, among others

paultzman

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #212 on: May 01, 2014, 08:19:10 PM »
@NYPost_Brazille: I'm hearing Fordham emerging as a dark horse for Westchester CC's Keith Thomas, along with St. John's, USF and Miami. #sjubb

MCNPA

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #213 on: May 01, 2014, 08:37:15 PM »
@NYPost_Brazille: I'm hearing Fordham emerging as a dark horse for Westchester CC's Keith Thomas, along with St. John's, USF and Miami. #sjubb

Lovely...

Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #214 on: May 01, 2014, 08:48:00 PM »
Ridiculous

paultzman

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #215 on: May 01, 2014, 08:53:06 PM »
@AdamZagoria: WCC forward Keith Thomas is now considering Loyola-Chicago, St. John's, USF & Fordham, coach Tyrone Mushatt tells @SNYtv

Loyola back in mix?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 08:56:45 PM by paultzman »

Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #216 on: May 01, 2014, 08:54:41 PM »
Now this would be a big time let down
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

paultzman

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #217 on: May 01, 2014, 09:02:50 PM »
Relax;

@NYPost_Brazille: Westchester CC's Keith Thomas down to St. John's, Loyola, South Florida and Fordham, per his coach. Decision in next few days. #sjubb

sju89tr

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Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #218 on: May 01, 2014, 09:20:28 PM »
Relax;

@NYPost_Brazille: Westchester CC's Keith Thomas down to St. John's, Loyola, South Florida and Fordham, per his coach. Decision in next few days. #sjubb

Got to like our chances plus he will play major minutes

Re: Keith Thomas - F - Westchester CC - ST JOHN'S
« Reply #219 on: May 01, 2014, 09:21:38 PM »
Relax;

@NYPost_Brazille: Westchester CC's Keith Thomas down to St. John's, Loyola, South Florida and Fordham, per his coach. Decision in next few days. #sjubb

Wouldn't be SJU fans then.