St. John's branding issues that need to be adressed.

 As we know,  marketing/branding plays a huge part in athletics.  If you type"st johns", "stj" and "sju" into google, you will notice that st johns university does not appear in the top results.  However, type "fsu" and florida state links come up.  The 'latin seal' logo is black and red on some pages, and blue and red on others.  The basketball team had red with black accented uniforms in 2012, now it appears to be blue accents.  On some hats or jackets, a horse is the logo, while on others a rain cloud and lightning bolt, while the mascot is  a bird.  This is not acceptable.  St. Johns was put in a tough situation after switching away from the redmen,  but since then,  it is impossible for anyone who isnt an alum/student to determine the schools mascot and colors- is it red white and black, or red white and blue?  Why are they called the Red storm but have a bird mascot, and horse logo?  When Syracuse switched from the orangemen, they made a smart move- they have stuck with one nationally recognized mascot (after some trials and errors), a simple name, and orange and blue colors.  St Johns is  a nationally recognized program.  For decades, the administration has dropped the ball in the branding of the university, and even though it seems minor, it is a big deal.  Any suggestions on what can be done? 

Being branded a winner by, for example, actually winning meaningful games in March is the only branding I'm concerned about.

The horse was the mascot a few years ago.

Winning is the thing.  Bringing in "name brand" players is another. 

Winning is the thing.  Bringing in "name brand" players is another. 

+1 on both

As we know,  marketing/branding plays a huge part in athletics.  If you type"st johns", "stj" and "sju" into google, you will notice that st johns university does not appear in the top results.  However, type "fsu" and florida state links come up.  The 'latin seal' logo is black and red on some pages, and blue and red on others.  The basketball team had red with black accented uniforms in 2012, now it appears to be blue accents.  On some hats or jackets, a horse is the logo, while on others a rain cloud and lightning bolt, while the mascot is  a bird.  This is not acceptable.  St. Johns was put in a tough situation after switching away from the redmen,  but since then,  it is impossible for anyone who isnt an alum/student to determine the schools mascot and colors- is it red white and black, or red white and blue?  Why are they called the Red storm but have a bird mascot, and horse logo?  When Syracuse switched from the orangemen, they made a smart move- they have stuck with one nationally recognized mascot (after some trials and errors), a simple name, and orange and blue colors.  St Johns is  a nationally recognized program.  For decades, the administration has dropped the ball in the branding of the university, and even though it seems minor, it is a big deal.  Any suggestions on what can be done?

We can pay money to have SJU pop up first with any of those google searches - pay up what is probably a minor sum and it will be done.

Orangemen was pretty easy to change...They dropped men and kept their non offensive mascot. Part of the issue  with Redmen was  our mascot with the combination of Redmen that made it offensive. If we never had our mascot we would have had a better shot at keeping Redmen...with Father Harrington. Who knows.

The bird was supposed to be a comprise between Redmen and Redstorm by being a mythic Native American bird, something like that. I give the school credit for that at least.

The School has officially went back to SJU and I think our colors will be red, white, blue ('Merica) because those are the colors that UA is playing with.

Duke had black uniforms for awhile and nobody really cared because they won, and if Cuse did not lose to BC I have a feeling those uniforms would not be seen as ugly.

#justwinbaby!

Just my opinion but.... they can start  by getting rid of those ugly "retro" lettered jerseys.
Bring back the look we've had the past few seasons.

Just my opinion but.... they can start  by getting rid of those ugly "retro" lettered jerseys.
Bring back the look we've had the past few seasons.

I'm hoping for the skyline uniforms in the future. I thought those road jersey's with the blue numbers were awful looking

I loved the new retro jerseys. Although I do wish they'd have gone through with it and used the skyline ones for non conference games like they were supposed to.

I loved the new retro jerseys. Although I do wish they'd have gone through with it and used the skyline ones for non conference games like they were supposed to.

Does anybody know why they didn't? I really like those...Hopefully the new ones will have SJU.

Orangemen was pretty easy to change...They dropped men and kept their non offensive mascot. Part of the issue  with Redmen was  our mascot with the combination of Redmen that made it offensive. If we never had our mascot we would have had a better shot at keeping Redmen...with Father Harrington. Who knows.

The bird was supposed to be a comprise between Redmen and Redstorm by being a mythic Native American bird, something like that. I give the school credit for that at least.

The School has officially went back to SJU and I think our colors will be red, white, blue ('Merica) because those are the colors that UA is playing with.

Duke had black uniforms for awhile and nobody really cared because they won, and if Cuse did not lose to BC I have a feeling those uniforms would not be seen as ugly.

#justwinbaby!

That is the first I've heard of the bird having something to do with native Americans. The Redmen got their name not because of any affiliation with native Americans, but because their shirts were red. The Orange have the Dome Ranger. No one in NY could come up with the Red Ranger? Or really, anything red?

I expect terrible ideas out of the south of the Midwest, but no mascot is as poorly thought out as STJ's horse, and then this bird. As you stated, they had a reason behind the bird. I always thought that good branding comes from truly understanding your brand. Given that, it no surprise the brain trust at St.John's isn't even aware of it's own history. And that's probably why they are never sure of who they are.

It won't improve until they realize that the people who are doing it, aren't.

St. johns is in NYC,  the administration couldnt find any inspiration from the big apple?  To me,  Red Storm  reminds me of red tide (beach algae) or an acid rain storm. However,  I believe Under Armour is slightly a more cutting-edge company than Nike and the jerseys are sharp.  St John's is a very respected name.  I suggest drawing a name from a historic NYC and staying with red white blue.  iI like the Liberty, but it is taken by the wnba.  There is so much history in nyc and the catholic church.  we can do better than red storm.  For now,  the school needs to stick with one apparel company and one set of colors.  It needs to use the same school seal in all aspects of the school.

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on April 22, 2014, 11:13:37 PM

I loved the new retro jerseys. Although I do wish they'd have gone through with it and used the skyline ones for non conference games like they were supposed to.

Does anybody know why they didn't? I really like those...Hopefully the new ones will have SJU.

There was a supposed to be a "throw back" uniform initiative this season through the entire league. It was actually an idea that St. john's  proposed last year at the end of the year Big East meetings. I am not sure if it was ever made official or if all of the teams participated.

Great observation.  In many ways, the institution seems to be a mom & pop operation.  Hopefully the new president will do some modernizing.  New hires should be from outside the Saint Johns organization.  It's time step up our game!

Poison I agree with you. The Administration did not think through the name change very well. The name change broke the spirit of the school and this is why 20years later you still hear chants if "Let's go Redmen". Redstorm has never really caught on and it does not help that the team has been mediocre for 20yrs. 

The spirit of the school starts at the top and I think Father H loved being president but didn't love SJU which help create apathy for the school. I think the new President will change the culture but it will take some time.
http://www.redstormsports.com/genrel/092909aad.html here is the link to the how the Thunderbird came to be. I got it from the Redstorm website.
 

I know many aren't over the Redmen name, but IMO it's time to move on from it. Red Storm probably wasn't the best choice, but the timing of the new brand was in my mind perfect. St. John's had a great recruiting class that year and the thought was that the basketball team was going to be pretty good which would result in sales.

I know many aren't over the Redmen name, but IMO it's time to move on from it. Red Storm probably wasn't the best choice, but the timing of the new brand was in my mind perfect. St. John's had a great recruiting class that year and the thought was that the basketball team was going to be pretty good which would result in sales.

That was the issue that the administration just changed it without much input from the students without fully understanding what the name meant. The second biggest issues was they never did anything to build the Redstorm name up. If were a storm why do we have horse mascot. The Thunderbird was clever and made sense. They actually worked more with the student body and are trying to get the Thunderbird involved with the community (like twitter). It would not be terrible IMO to change our names to Thunderbirds...Continuation with the combination of names and keep the red uniforms.

Redmen will not go away until SJU community can embrace Redstorm...the revolving door of coaches, constant losing, and general apathy of the program are huge hurdles to get over. It can be done but it will be difficult.

@PMG that is a really cool ideal especially with re-establishing on BE being a BB conference only. I like the SJU retro this year a lot...I like the city skyline was almost as much...these skyline uniforms are waaaayyyyy better then the 90 version which looked like HS uniforms.

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on April 23, 2014, 08:36:47 PM

I know many aren't over the Redmen name, but IMO it's time to move on from it. Red Storm probably wasn't the best choice, but the timing of the new brand was in my mind perfect. St. John's had a great recruiting class that year and the thought was that the basketball team was going to be pretty good which would result in sales.

That was the issue that the administration just changed it without much input from the students without fully understanding what the name meant. The second biggest issues was they never did anything to build the Redstorm name up. If were a storm why do we have horse mascot. The Thunderbird was clever and made sense. They actually worked more with the student body and are trying to get the Thunderbird involved with the community (like twitter). It would not be terrible IMO to change our names to Thunderbirds...Continuation with the combination of names and keep the red uniforms.

Redmen will not go away until SJU community can embrace Redstorm...the revolving door of coaches, constant losing, and general apathy of the program are huge hurdles to get over. It can be done but it will be difficult.

@PMG that is a really cool ideal especially with re-establishing on BE being a BB conference only. I like the SJU retro this year a lot...I like the city skyline was almost as much...these skyline uniforms are waaaayyyyy better then the 90 version which looked like HS uniforms.

I agree with you for the most part. It is a lot easier to do polls, etc. now a days using the internet. Back then us student workers would have to tally any surveys sent out by the athletic dept. It was a pain in the ass.

A horse was picked as the mascot for the following reason, as the school tried to tie in the storm name:

"Boreas (Greek God) and his brother winds were often imagined as horse-shaped gods. An old Greek folk belief was that the winds Boreas and Zephyros would sweep down upon the mares in early spring and fertilize them in the shape of wind-formed stallions. The horses born from these couplings were the swiftest and finest of their kind. The fabulous horses of King Laomedon of Troy were said to have been sired in this way by Boreas upon the Trojan mares."

Bottom line, when/if the team becomes good again a whole new wave of fans will follow St. John's. Those new fans will only know the name Red Storm and would be okay with that name.

StJohnnie75, thanks for the info on the horse...Usually when you go into that much detail on a mascot (especially when it indirectly related to the team name) it usually  won't take off...Hence the horse in glue.