Lavin's Recruiting strategy

It seems SJU coaches make contact with a lot of high school ball players, but never offer early.  The approach is different from Kentucky (recruit and offer all (only) top-5 kids, every year) and Providence (recruit and offer every top-100 kid). What are the consequences of this approach? 

Impact on Student athletes:
1)   If there was a coaching change, the student might have to work to get a release.
2)   The students can use their official visits to visit other schools
3)   The students can see how the current team develops and project how much playing time they would get, rather than project two or three years down the road.
4)   The student sees what other students/players are going to SJU or leaving SJU.


Impact on SJU:
1)   Coaching staff appears to care about the kids and will only recruit kids that will play
2)   Staff can better evaluate needs of future teams based on the latest development of existing players and the overall team.
3)   By being so secretive, there is no buzz surrounding the program.
4)   Kids on the current SJU team don’t have a sense they are being recruited over.
5)   After being courted by other coaches, the highest rated student athletes will commit elsewhere.
6)   This should leave SJU with a team of student athletes that have been passed over by other teams and coaches.  These students  may have deficiencies in their academics or athletic backgrounds.
7)   Can create a feeling of desperation among fans and coaches.
   Opposing coaches can tell kids ‘Why are you considering SJU? No one is going there.’

The point of this thread..?

One man's analysis shared for consideration by all. Does a thread need a "point"?

The argument is that he doesn't offer an opinion on if this is a good or bad strategy. Is there something that SJU could be doing better or what SJU is doing wrong. At best he is saying that the sky is blue ...ok what is the point. Not saying he is right or wrong but what is the point.

The point of my initial thread was get some input on how the SJU recruiting strategy works.  Like most posters, I know nothing about recruiting.  I have never recruited a student athlete, nor have I been recruited. Coach Lavin does this for a living, and after several years of recruiting, his recruiting plan should be discernible.  The plan that I see seems flawed.  Contrary to what other schools do, Lavin seems to focus on a few four or five star kids.  The fatal flaw in this strategy is that you run the risk of not getting any commitments, which exacerbates the perception problem (Why does a top kid go to SJU if no other kids go there?)

Look at some other schools as examples:
 
(Data is from Verbal Commits.  While this data may not be the most current and accurate, it is readily available.)

2015 Recruiting:
Georgetown:  19 offers for 5 spots (4:1) – 1 commitment
Villanova:  10 offers for 3 spots (3:1) – 2 commitments
Providence:  24 Offers for 3 spots (8:1) – 1 commitment
St. Johns:  12 Offers for 6 spots (2:1) – 0 commitments


Maybe the staff should continue to offer the four star kids, but also chase a few 3 star kids?

One man's analysis shared for consideration by all. Does a thread need a "point"?

Well lets go with his main point in the first part - he mentions getting involved early and offering either Top 5 or Top 100 kids...

Then is the second part he mentions consequences on student athletes and says they will have to get releases...   that is 100% incorrect. Offering scholarships has no impact to the player or the school and can have no negative impact to the student athlete. Now if the player signed a LOI, it would be a different situation.

So again, re-read the entire initial post and try to explain what the point of it was...

Rothstein stating the obvious;

"2. St. John's needs strong 2015 recruiting class

The Red Storm may not have to sign nine players like they did when Lavin first took over the reigns of the program in 2010, but it's pretty clear that St. John's 2015 recruiting class will shape its future. The Red Storm will lose D'Angelo Harrison, Jamal Branch, Phil Greene and Dom Pointer after this season to graduation, and likely both Rysheed Jordan and Chris Obekpa to the NBA.

What does that mean for Lavin? In addition to the pressures of attempting to take this program back to the NCAA Tournament for the first time since his first season, he's also going to have to sign a heck of a class to maintain the talent level that's he's had since arriving in Jamaica. St. John's will return role players like Christian Jones, Felix Balamou, Keith Thomas and Adonis DeLaRosa in '15-16, but it's clear that this program needs to add a slew of impactful newcomers in its upcoming recruiting class.

St. John's remains on the short list for Top 100 prospects such as Isaiah Briscoe (Roselle Catholic, 6-3 PG), Cheick Diallo (Our Savior New American, 6-9 PF), Brandon Sampson (Madison Prep Academy, 6-4 SG), and Malik Beasley (Saint Francis High School, 6-4 SG). The key to the entire class may be Briscoe, a talented, scoring lead guard who recently said he's not going to sign until next spring. As of now, the Red Storm don't have a starting-caliber perimeter player on the roster for the '15-16 campaign as long as Jordan departs after next season as expected."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24653336/observations-cincy-adds-skilled-frontcourt-to-hard-nosed-program

@franfraschilla: Good stuff on Saint John's recruiting. I'd bank on Red Storm coming up with a solid recruiting class.  http://t.co/de4zdSem2l

I'd bank on a top recruiting year as well...if fraschilla was doing the recruiting.

I'm surprised to see this thread has any content at all

I'm surprised to see this thread has any content at all

It's his coaching strategy thread that is blank!

Does anybody think the big five conferences have more autonomy will impact the 15-16 class at all?

His recruiting is good. He is coaching style is to let has to be let his bench coach coach the team. Hopefully whitesel is up to it. Another year like last year he is fired and he knows it

His recruiting is good. He is coaching style is to let has to be let his bench coach coach the team. Hopefully whitesel is up to it. Another year like last year he is fired and he knows it

If you think SJU is fing a guy who goes 10-8 and wins 20 games and is a Bubble team then you are 100% wrong.  ZERO chance.  No way. 

Don't get me wrong that would be a disappointment no doubt, this year they definitely should be a NCAA team.  Other than Nova no one has more returning talent in the BE than SJU and add Thomas as a rebounder and a healthy and happy Jordan they should be good, potentially real good.

But SJU is not firing a coach for a being a "disappointment."  He would have a to be a complete disaster, meaning losing record overall that type of thing.

You guys are confusing disappointing with disaster.  Last year was not viewed by anyone at SJU as a complete disaster despite how they finished.

Quote from: TONYD3 on August 09, 2014, 08:22:14 PM

His recruiting is good. He is coaching style is to let has to be let his bench coach coach the team. Hopefully whitesel is up to it. Another year like last year he is fired and he knows it

If you think SJU is fing a guy who goes 10-8 and wins 20 games and is a Bubble team then you are 100% wrong.  ZERO chance.  No way. 

Don't get me wrong that would be a disappointment no doubt, this year they definitely should be a NCAA team.  Other than Nova no one has more returning talent in the BE than SJU and add Thomas as a rebounder and a healthy and happy Jordan they should be good, potentially real good.

But SJU is not firing a coach for a being a "disappointment."  He would have a to be a complete disaster, meaning losing record overall that type of thing.

You guys are confusing disappointing with disaster.  Last year was not viewed by anyone at SJU as a complete disaster despite how they finished.

New school President just started and most likely a new AD soon too and the program's LARGEST benefactor very disappointed in the state of the program he has put a very large amount of money behind....      Coach Lavin is squarely on a very hot seat...

I would not call last year a disaster but it was a very big disappointment, the team should have won a minimum of 3 - 4 more games and should have made the tournament

Quote from: fordham96 on August 09, 2014, 10:05:27 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on August 09, 2014, 08:22:14 PM

His recruiting is good. He is coaching style is to let has to be let his bench coach coach the team. Hopefully whitesel is up to it. Another year like last year he is fired and he knows it

If you think SJU is fing a guy who goes 10-8 and wins 20 games and is a Bubble team then you are 100% wrong.  ZERO chance.  No way. 

Don't get me wrong that would be a disappointment no doubt, this year they definitely should be a NCAA team.  Other than Nova no one has more returning talent in the BE than SJU and add Thomas as a rebounder and a healthy and happy Jordan they should be good, potentially real good.

But SJU is not firing a coach for a being a "disappointment."  He would have a to be a complete disaster, meaning losing record overall that type of thing.

You guys are confusing disappointing with disaster.  Last year was not viewed by anyone at SJU as a complete disaster despite how they finished.

New school President just started and most likely a new AD soon too and the program's LARGEST benefactor very disappointed in the state of the program he has put a very large amount of money behind....      Coach Lavin is squarely on a very hot seat...

I would not call last year a disaster but it was a very big disappointment, the team should have won a minimum of 3 - 4 more games and should have made the tournament

"LARGEST benefactor very disappointed" ====> Mike Francesca??? 

Quote from: pmg911 on August 11, 2014, 09:08:11 AM

Quote from: fordham96 on August 09, 2014, 10:05:27 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on August 09, 2014, 08:22:14 PM

His recruiting is good. He is coaching style is to let has to be let his bench coach coach the team. Hopefully whitesel is up to it. Another year like last year he is fired and he knows it

If you think SJU is fing a guy who goes 10-8 and wins 20 games and is a Bubble team then you are 100% wrong.  ZERO chance.  No way. 

Don't get me wrong that would be a disappointment no doubt, this year they definitely should be a NCAA team.  Other than Nova no one has more returning talent in the BE than SJU and add Thomas as a rebounder and a healthy and happy Jordan they should be good, potentially real good.

But SJU is not firing a coach for a being a "disappointment."  He would have a to be a complete disaster, meaning losing record overall that type of thing.

You guys are confusing disappointing with disaster.  Last year was not viewed by anyone at SJU as a complete disaster despite how they finished.

New school President just started and most likely a new AD soon too and the program's LARGEST benefactor very disappointed in the state of the program he has put a very large amount of money behind....      Coach Lavin is squarely on a very hot seat...

I would not call last year a disaster but it was a very big disappointment, the team should have won a minimum of 3 - 4 more games and should have made the tournament

"LARGEST benefactor very disappointed" ====> Mike Francesca??? 

Well you got the first name right. 

I've made some posts urging and questioning the staff to do more overseas, but alas, I may have been a bit too critical.  The staff was out in Turkey (anyone know who?) in July for the FIBA U18s. 


Excerpt: " The Sports Complex was a welcoming place, and it says something about the state of basketball in 2014 that you can walk into a gym in a far-off place and see familiar things: Division I college coaches in the stands, in shirts from St.John's and Gonzaga and Baylor and Miami, and more. Scouts from NBA teams, a month removed from a draft in which one-third of the first-rounders were born outside the U.S., took notes in leather-bound portfolios."

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/06/fiba-croatia-dragan-bender-maccabi-tel-aviv-nba

fwiw - Terps appear to have another Euro big man to follow on with 2014's Michael Cekovsky (Canaris BA)- Dragan Bender's older bro, Ivan, is said to be going to UMD...

I've made some posts urging and questioning the staff to do more overseas, but alas, I may have been a bit too critical.  The staff was out in Turkey (anyone know who?) in July for the FIBA U18s. 


Excerpt: " The Sports Complex was a welcoming place, and it says something about the state of basketball in 2014 that you can walk into a gym in a far-off place and see familiar things: Division I college coaches in the stands, in shirts from St.John's and Gonzaga and Baylor and Miami, and more. Scouts from NBA teams, a month removed from a draft in which one-third of the first-rounders were born outside the U.S., took notes in leather-bound portfolios."

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/06/fiba-croatia-dragan-bender-maccabi-tel-aviv-nba

fwiw - Terps appear to have another Euro big man to follow on with 2014's Michael Cekovsky (Canaris BA)- Dragan Bender's older bro, Ivan, is said to be going to UMD...

Maryland signs players. this should be posted under Lavin's Travel strategy.

Quote from: bball purist on August 11, 2014, 12:02:00 PM

I've made some posts urging and questioning the staff to do more overseas, but alas, I may have been a bit too critical.  The staff was out in Turkey (anyone know who?) in July for the FIBA U18s. 


Excerpt: " The Sports Complex was a welcoming place, and it says something about the state of basketball in 2014 that you can walk into a gym in a far-off place and see familiar things: Division I college coaches in the stands, in shirts from St.John's and Gonzaga and Baylor and Miami, and more. Scouts from NBA teams, a month removed from a draft in which one-third of the first-rounders were born outside the U.S., took notes in leather-bound portfolios."

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/08/06/fiba-croatia-dragan-bender-maccabi-tel-aviv-nba

fwiw - Terps appear to have another Euro big man to follow on with 2014's Michael Cekovsky (Canaris BA)- Dragan Bender's older bro, Ivan, is said to be going to UMD...

Maryland signs players. this should be posted under Lavin's Travel strategy.

It should be.  I maintain DC and NYC's distinct advantages should be viewed upon more favorably for the foreign players.