Sid Wilson, SF, St. Raymond's HS Bronx, NY

Yes, I'm aware he coached the Jaspers.  But that doesn't give him a track record of knowing how to run a successful D-I program.

To PMG's point, he was paid very well to leave Kentucky and come home.  Both factors I'm sure played a role in his decision.  While I'm also sure he received assurances that he would have substantial input in how the program is run, that is different than being told he is going to get to run the program however he wants without weigh-in from others.

The only story I heard was that he wanted SJU to take the Walker kid on Manhattan and thought he was as good as Ponds.  Well that kid ain't in the same universe as Ponds and no one could rationally suggest otherwise.

He might not have the track record as a head coach but he was the lead recruiter for a program that had a multiple year run for producing the top classes in the country. That success at Kentucky was certainly not all his but it's safe to say he had a better track record as a recruiter than anyone at SJU and he was def not given the reins as the lead dog recruiter.

The head coach clearly decided that Matt A was the more important assistant and in my opinion that was a big mistake. Slice is a proven commodity on the recruiting trail and would have delivered players.

Quote from: prjohnnies on August 30, 2017, 02:20:57 PM

Yes, I'm aware he coached the Jaspers.  But that doesn't give him a track record of knowing how to run a successful D-I program.

To PMG's point, he was paid very well to leave Kentucky and come home.  Both factors I'm sure played a role in his decision.  While I'm also sure he received assurances that he would have substantial input in how the program is run, that is different than being told he is going to get to run the program however he wants without weigh-in from others.

The only story I heard was that he wanted SJU to take the Walker kid on Manhattan and thought he was as good as Ponds.  Well that kid ain't in the same universe as Ponds and no one could rationally suggest otherwise.

He might not have the track record as a head coach but he was the lead recruiter for a program that had a multiple year run for producing the top classes in the country. That success at Kentucky was certainly not all his but it's safe to say he had a better track record as a recruiter than anyone at SJU and he was def not given the reins as the lead dog recruiter.

The head coach clearly decided that Matt A was the more important assistant and in my opinion that was a big mistake. Slice is a proven commodity on the recruiting trail and would have delivered players.

We don't know that Slice would have delivered players. While he was here he didn't. Success elsewhere doesn't guarantee success here. Still, it's disappointing that we'll never know.

Quote from: pmg911 on August 30, 2017, 02:42:19 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on August 30, 2017, 02:20:57 PM

Yes, I'm aware he coached the Jaspers.  But that doesn't give him a track record of knowing how to run a successful D-I program.

To PMG's point, he was paid very well to leave Kentucky and come home.  Both factors I'm sure played a role in his decision.  While I'm also sure he received assurances that he would have substantial input in how the program is run, that is different than being told he is going to get to run the program however he wants without weigh-in from others.

The only story I heard was that he wanted SJU to take the Walker kid on Manhattan and thought he was as good as Ponds.  Well that kid ain't in the same universe as Ponds and no one could rationally suggest otherwise.

He might not have the track record as a head coach but he was the lead recruiter for a program that had a multiple year run for producing the top classes in the country. That success at Kentucky was certainly not all his but it's safe to say he had a better track record as a recruiter than anyone at SJU and he was def not given the reins as the lead dog recruiter.

The head coach clearly decided that Matt A was the more important assistant and in my opinion that was a big mistake. Slice is a proven commodity on the recruiting trail and would have delivered players.

We don't know that Slice would have delivered players. While he was here he didn't. Success elsewhere doesn't guarantee success here. Still, it's disappointing that we'll never know.

Slice barely had a full year to recruit - it is unfair to judge him on one year.  It should be obvious to anyone, IMO, that one with Slice's track record should have had more time and more deference should have been given to him.

On a staff that had no head coaching experience on the college level between Mullin, St. Jean and Richmond and only Matt who was an assistant for 4 years at ISU losing a guy like Slice has hurt a bit. He was someone that had head coaching experience, spent years on different staffs, different d-1 levels, different conferences and different parts of the country.  He was also someone who was a New Yorker and widely respected throughout the city.  Bottom line he had the background and experience to help lead the staff through these early years and he was shown the door after a year. Not only did his departure make the staff that much more green during a total rebuild but also made SJU the brunt of jokes among other BE and national media and coaching staffs.

So a flighty incoming freshman decides to transfer out before he even starts here and we're back discussing Slice? It was clearly a very expensive mistake to sign him to the guaranteed contract we did without having made it crystal clear as to what his duties would be, but he also could have tried harder to make this work rather than just cashing in on his huge contract. Mullin and St. John's made a huge mistake here and we have all paid for it, but it's time to settle with him, pay him off, and move on.

We could use another recruiter, but this staff has put together an improved team for this year even without Sid. Let's settle this, decide if we're adding a coach, continue to recruit to improve, and move on.

A few brief things then I really need to stay out of this one
1) Sid is not a bad kid but across the board this was handled poorly and was a long time in the making.from ALL sides. I wish Sid well and hope he becomes a productive player and more importantly person. Without discussing more I would hope not knowing all the facts we can all agree on this.
2) I really like this staff, personally and professionally they put in the hours but irrespective of this situation Changes need to occur.
3) wilson won't affect Brown... what will if except Louisville several of these big schools came away unimpressed this summer in performance and attitude so yes I do think SJU still has a long shot

So a flighty incoming freshman decides to transfer out before he even starts here and we're back discussing Slice? It was clearly a very expensive mistake to sign him to the guaranteed contract we did without having made it crystal clear as to what his duties would be, but he also could have tried harder to make this work rather than just cashing in on his huge contract. Mullin and St. John's made a huge mistake here and we have all paid for it, but it's time to settle with him, pay him off, and move on.

We could use another recruiter, but this staff has put together an improved team for this year even without Sid. Let's settle this, decide if we're adding a coach, continue to recruit to improve, and move on.

Not sure who you mean by cashing in on the big contract? Slice or Wilson?

The jury is still out on whether it was a mistake, though it may ultimately be as you say.  We are only one year into it unfolding.  To use an example that I know you are well attuned to, Seton Hall hired two of the biggest scum**** in youth basketball for no reason other than to buy players, and while it looked like an absolute disaster at first it has had the effect of turning around that program and saving Willard's job (until he leaves for a bigger school).  I don't think the situation can be fully assessed at this point.

Quote from: prjohnnies on August 30, 2017, 02:20:57 PM

Yes, I'm aware he coached the Jaspers.  But that doesn't give him a track record of knowing how to run a successful D-I program.

To PMG's point, he was paid very well to leave Kentucky and come home.  Both factors I'm sure played a role in his decision.  While I'm also sure he received assurances that he would have substantial input in how the program is run, that is different than being told he is going to get to run the program however he wants without weigh-in from others.

The only story I heard was that he wanted SJU to take the Walker kid on Manhattan and thought he was as good as Ponds.  Well that kid ain't in the same universe as Ponds and no one could rationally suggest otherwise.

He might not have the track record as a head coach but he was the lead recruiter for a program that had a multiple year run for producing the top classes in the country. That success at Kentucky was certainly not all his but it's safe to say he had a better track record as a recruiter than anyone at SJU and he was def not given the reins as the lead dog recruiter.

The head coach clearly decided that Matt A was the more important assistant and in my opinion that was a big mistake. Slice is a proven commodity on the recruiting trail and would have delivered players.

A few brief things then I really need to stay out of this one
1) Sid is not a bad kid but across the board this was handled poorly and was a long time in the making.from ALL sides. I wish Sid well and hope he becomes a productive player and more importantly person. Without discussing more I would hope not knowing all the facts we can all agree on this.
2) I really like this staff, personally and professionally they put in the hours but irrespective of this situation Changes need to occur.
3) wilson won't affect Brown... what will if except Louisville several of these big schools came away unimpressed this summer in performance and attitude so yes I do think SJU still has a long shot

This is what happens when you hire an entire staff that is learning on the job.  Have to hope they put it an excellent performance as coaches this season because if they don't then the experiment will have failed.

He might not have the track record as a head coach but he was the lead recruiter for a program that had a multiple year run for producing the top classes in the country.

He was the lead recruiter for a single year at (other than UCLA) arguably the greatest college basketball program in history. And the dirtiest. And for the dirtiest coach (arguably) in college basketball history. Not slamming him, but I could recruit at Kentucky. What he did at Pitt was more impressive than what he did at UK.

So a flighty incoming freshman decides to transfer out before he even starts here and we're back discussing Slice? It was clearly a very expensive mistake to sign him to the guaranteed contract we did without having made it crystal clear as to what his duties would be, but he also could have tried harder to make this work rather than just cashing in on his huge contract. Mullin and St. John's made a huge mistake here and we have all paid for it, but it's time to settle with him, pay him off, and move on.

Plus one. The mistake was not letting BR go, it was (in hindsight) hiring him in the first place. It made a buzz - and I bought in - but they'd have been better hiring a younger hungrier guy who knew his place.

Quote from: Lycidas on August 30, 2017, 03:36:52 PM

So a flighty incoming freshman decides to transfer out before he even starts here and we're back discussing Slice? It was clearly a very expensive mistake to sign him to the guaranteed contract we did without having made it crystal clear as to what his duties would be, but he also could have tried harder to make this work rather than just cashing in on his huge contract. Mullin and St. John's made a huge mistake here and we have all paid for it, but it's time to settle with him, pay him off, and move on.

Plus one. The mistake was not letting BR go, it was (in hindsight) hiring him in the first place. It made a buzz - and I bought in - but they'd have been better hiring a younger hungrier guy who knew his place.

They hired a younger guy who didn't know his place. Actually maybe he did know his place. 8th

Not sure why this discussion is about Slice (other than Baldi continuing his act as a Maven surrogate).  Matt A got the kid here after he reclassed, and while I don't know all the inside baseball, I doubt Matt was responsible for Sid's departure.

Not sure why this discussion is about Slice (other than Baldi continuing his act as a Maven surrogate).  Matt A got the kid here after he reclassed, and while I don't know all the inside baseball, I doubt Matt was responsible for Sid's departure.

So he's responsible for bringing him here, even though he's not here? Dudes are delusional

Hurts to lose Sid, but he may end up being more trouble than he's worth. Still need Coach Rice...

Any word on Rice joining  the staff?

Quote from: prjohnnies on August 30, 2017, 02:20:57 PM

Yes, I'm aware he coached the Jaspers.  But that doesn't give him a track record of knowing how to run a successful D-I program.

To PMG's point, he was paid very well to leave Kentucky and come home.  Both factors I'm sure played a role in his decision.  While I'm also sure he received assurances that he would have substantial input in how the program is run, that is different than being told he is going to get to run the program however he wants without weigh-in from others.

The only story I heard was that he wanted SJU to take the Walker kid on Manhattan and thought he was as good as Ponds.  Well that kid ain't in the same universe as Ponds and no one could rationally suggest otherwise.

He might not have the track record as a head coach but he was the lead recruiter for a program that had a multiple year run for producing the top classes in the country. That success at Kentucky was certainly not all his but it's safe to say he had a better track record as a recruiter than anyone at SJU and he was def not given the reins as the lead dog recruiter.

The head coach clearly decided that Matt A was the more important assistant and in my opinion that was a big mistake. Slice is a proven commodity on the recruiting trail and would have delivered players.

He wasn't the lead recruiter at a Kentucky. Kenny Payne was and is the lead recruiter.
I am sure he had expectations of having a larger role at SJ as a stepping stone to another
HC chance.

There  are 2 sides to every story. I am sure Slice has his side and Mullin has his side. Wish it had worked out.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on August 30, 2017, 05:51:26 PM

Not sure why this discussion is about Slice (other than Baldi continuing his act as a Maven surrogate).  Matt A got the kid here after he reclassed, and while I don't know all the inside baseball, I doubt Matt was responsible for Sid's departure.

So he's responsible for bringing him here, even though he's not here?

Correct.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on August 30, 2017, 05:51:26 PM

Not sure why this discussion is about Slice (other than Baldi continuing his act as a Maven surrogate).  Matt A got the kid here after he reclassed, and while I don't know all the inside baseball, I doubt Matt was responsible for Sid's departure.

So he's responsible for bringing him here, even though he's not here? Dudes are delusional

Yes..  in between your narrative, he became unhappy, took summer classes and decided to leave.  He did not fail to arrive.  Who you foolin with this stuff?

Quote from: Foad on August 30, 2017, 05:06:49 PM

Quote from: Lycidas on August 30, 2017, 03:36:52 PM

So a flighty incoming freshman decides to transfer out before he even starts here and we're back discussing Slice? It was clearly a very expensive mistake to sign him to the guaranteed contract we did without having made it crystal clear as to what his duties would be, but he also could have tried harder to make this work rather than just cashing in on his huge contract. Mullin and St. John's made a huge mistake here and we have all paid for it, but it's time to settle with him, pay him off, and move on.

Plus one. The mistake was not letting BR go, it was (in hindsight) hiring him in the first place. It made a buzz - and I bought in - but they'd have been better hiring a younger hungrier guy who knew his place.

They hired a younger guy who didn't know his place. Actually maybe he did know his place. 8th

Coincidentally eight is also how many games they won in total when BR was here, that year they finished last.