Keith Thomas Impact

Daily News reporting he may have to sit out the season.

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 03:11:32 PM

If he isn't eligible to play this season, would St.John's consider firing their compliance team?

How would SJU compliance even know about this? I believe the NCAA clearinghouse cleared Thomas to play.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can't put 100% of the blame on St.John's in this case. Especially seeing that this is the 5th recruit that this staff hasn't followed through on. What is wrong with them? Are they lazy, careless or just incompetent?

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on October 28, 2014, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 03:11:32 PM

If he isn't eligible to play this season, would St.John's consider firing their compliance team?

How would SJU compliance even know about this? I believe the NCAA clearinghouse cleared Thomas to play.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can't put 100% of the blame on St.John's in this case. Especially seeing that this is the 5th recruit that this staff hasn't followed through on. What is wrong with them? Are they lazy, careless or just incompetent?

You really are thick.  This is totally different than the other situations - how would SJU ever know about an internal WCC scandal?  It'd be like if we took a transfer from UNC who is now ineligible bc of the "paper" classes.  Would that be our fault too?

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 04:36:03 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on October 28, 2014, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 03:11:32 PM

If he isn't eligible to play this season, would St.John's consider firing their compliance team?

How would SJU compliance even know about this? I believe the NCAA clearinghouse cleared Thomas to play.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can't put 100% of the blame on St.John's in this case. Especially seeing that this is the 5th recruit that this staff hasn't followed through on. What is wrong with them? Are they lazy, careless or just incompetent?

You really are thick.  This is totally different than the other situations - how would SJU ever know about an internal WCC scandal?  It'd be like if we took a transfer from UNC who is now ineligible bc of the "paper" classes.  Would that be our fault too?

Let me get this straight, you're saying that due diligence isn't possible?

Due diligence would not have discovered that an employee of WCC has fabricated official transcripts. Unless you think due diligence requires a school to ask for daily attendance sheets.

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 28, 2014, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 04:36:03 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on October 28, 2014, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 03:11:32 PM

If he isn't eligible to play this season, would St.John's consider firing their compliance team?

How would SJU compliance even know about this? I believe the NCAA clearinghouse cleared Thomas to play.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can't put 100% of the blame on St.John's in this case. Especially seeing that this is the 5th recruit that this staff hasn't followed through on. What is wrong with them? Are they lazy, careless or just incompetent?

You really are thick.  This is totally different than the other situations - how would SJU ever know about an internal WCC scandal?  It'd be like if we took a transfer from UNC who is now ineligible bc of the "paper" classes.  Would that be our fault too?

Let me get this straight, you're saying that due diligence isn't possible?

\

If the cheating occurred internally you wouldn't see it with any level of due diligence unless you sent someone onto campus to audit and investigate every grade and class.  It's not a matter of inadequate grades or lack of core classwork.  That's something you can get on the compliance department for in the cases of the original recruiting class, though when the NCAA is providing approval and then backtracking who really knows what's acceptable and not anymore.

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 28, 2014, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 04:36:03 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on October 28, 2014, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 03:11:32 PM

If he isn't eligible to play this season, would St.John's consider firing their compliance team?

How would SJU compliance even know about this? I believe the NCAA clearinghouse cleared Thomas to play.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can't put 100% of the blame on St.John's in this case. Especially seeing that this is the 5th recruit that this staff hasn't followed through on. What is wrong with them? Are they lazy, careless or just incompetent?

You really are thick.  This is totally different than the other situations - how would SJU ever know about an internal WCC scandal?  It'd be like if we took a transfer from UNC who is now ineligible bc of the "paper" classes.  Would that be our fault too?

Let me get this straight, you're saying that due diligence isn't possible?

You may be hopeless.  You seem like a smart guy.  Tell me, how would due diligence have uncovered that a WCC employee was falsifying transcripts?  But yeah, you're right, St. John's should have sensed by osmosis or ESP that Keith's grades may have been falsified, right?

Lets just let he process play out.

I am going to believe that Keith did not need his transcripts falsified.

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 28, 2014, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 04:36:03 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on October 28, 2014, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 03:11:32 PM

If he isn't eligible to play this season, would St.John's consider firing their compliance team?

How would SJU compliance even know about this? I believe the NCAA clearinghouse cleared Thomas to play.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can't put 100% of the blame on St.John's in this case. Especially seeing that this is the 5th recruit that this staff hasn't followed through on. What is wrong with them? Are they lazy, careless or just incompetent?

You really are thick.  This is totally different than the other situations - how would SJU ever know about an internal WCC scandal?  It'd be like if we took a transfer from UNC who is now ineligible bc of the "paper" classes.  Would that be our fault too?

Let me get this straight, you're saying that due diligence isn't possible?

If someone at SJU changed his transcript then yeah they should be fired. But if the kid was cleared by the NCAA and no one at SJU knew about the scandal at WCC not sure how you can blame them.

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 05:02:57 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 28, 2014, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 04:36:03 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on October 28, 2014, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 03:11:32 PM

If he isn't eligible to play this season, would St.John's consider firing their compliance team?

How would SJU compliance even know about this? I believe the NCAA clearinghouse cleared Thomas to play.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can't put 100% of the blame on St.John's in this case. Especially seeing that this is the 5th recruit that this staff hasn't followed through on. What is wrong with them? Are they lazy, careless or just incompetent?

You really are thick.  This is totally different than the other situations - how would SJU ever know about an internal WCC scandal?  It'd be like if we took a transfer from UNC who is now ineligible bc of the "paper" classes.  Would that be our fault too?

Let me get this straight, you're saying that due diligence isn't possible?

If someone at SJU changed his transcript then yeah they should be fired. But if the kid was cleared by the NCAA and no one at SJU knew about the scandal at WCC not sure how you can blame them.

I'm with you.  I posted this before:


Someone can do a better job of explaining this than me but here is what I have a pretty good grasp on. In order to play college athletics you need to be cleared by the NCAA Clearinghouse. Keith Thomas was cleared. Therefore Lavin could extend schollie and accept it. I'd love to find ways to chalk this up to the other eligibility issues but this IF it turns out to be true is a case where the NCAA says yes Keith Thomas is ok and we admit him and plan to play him only for them to go back and look at his records after the fact.

SJU compliance isn't looking for forged transcripts. That falls on the NCAA and the Clearinghouse. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but pretty certain here.

We need some good to happen, so I am going with the notion that he is fine and will be playing from game 1.

We need some good to happen, so I am going with the notion that he is fine and will be playing from game 1.

I've seen this movie before.

Quote from: stjohns86 on October 28, 2014, 06:46:34 PM

We need some good to happen, so I am going with the notion that he is fine and will be playing from game 1.

I've seen this movie before.

Now that is true.
The black cloud on the corner of Union and Utopia just won't go away.

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 05:02:57 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 28, 2014, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 04:36:03 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on October 28, 2014, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 03:11:32 PM

If he isn't eligible to play this season, would St.John's consider firing their compliance team?

How would SJU compliance even know about this? I believe the NCAA clearinghouse cleared Thomas to play.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can't put 100% of the blame on St.John's in this case. Especially seeing that this is the 5th recruit that this staff hasn't followed through on. What is wrong with them? Are they lazy, careless or just incompetent?

You really are thick.  This is totally different than the other situations - how would SJU ever know about an internal WCC scandal?  It'd be like if we took a transfer from UNC who is now ineligible bc of the "paper" classes.  Would that be our fault too?

Let me get this straight, you're saying that due diligence isn't possible?

You may be hopeless.  You seem like a smart guy.  Tell me, how would due diligence have uncovered that a WCC employee was falsifying transcripts?  But yeah, you're right, St. John's should have sensed by osmosis or ESP that Keith's grades may have been falsified, right?

I may be hopeless, but not because of this. It seems to me that if you're bringing in a 23 year old junior with a record, that you'd be really f'n careful. Is this not why we have a compliance department or team?

Have to agree with Poison. This really is ridiculous.

WCC is part of the State University of NY (SUNY) system.  It is not a "for profit" university that is giving college a bad name.  SJU Compliance department receives his official transcript from WCC and reviews it to see that it is official (seal of school/signed by registrars office) and notes that it indicates that he graduated.  End of story.  They have no way of knowing if there was any monkey business going on with respect to individual course work/grades at WCC as SJU compliance department is based in Queens-not on the campus of WCC.  Now that there are questions, the school is correct in holding him out until the NCAA completes its investigation.  Don't forget the NJCAA had no problems with WCC players and their eligibility last year.  If the organization that monitors WCC could find no issues, how can one expect this to be a fault of the SJU compliance group.

The bigger problem maybe the burden of proof.  In other words depending on how the NCAA looks at this Keith maybe presumed GUILTY and have to prove his innocence.

The reason is the NCAA could say even though we don't have direct proof your transcripts were tampered with or doctored because of what WCC has already admitted to doing we place the burden of proof on Mr. Thomas and WCC to prove without a doubt the grades on his transcripts were legit.

That could be the real result of what happened.  That everything at that school is looked at with suspicion.

@NYPost_Brazille: There are eligibility concerns for Keith Thomas, St. John's big addition http://t.co/uL2uUYyHbH via @nypost #sjubb

We are not cursed this is the norm.  We are bringing in a bunch of new players next year. Their will be issues with at-least half of them.

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 28, 2014, 06:06:15 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 05:02:57 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on October 28, 2014, 04:40:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 04:36:03 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on October 28, 2014, 04:00:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 28, 2014, 03:11:32 PM

If he isn't eligible to play this season, would St.John's consider firing their compliance team?

How would SJU compliance even know about this? I believe the NCAA clearinghouse cleared Thomas to play.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can't put 100% of the blame on St.John's in this case. Especially seeing that this is the 5th recruit that this staff hasn't followed through on. What is wrong with them? Are they lazy, careless or just incompetent?

You really are thick.  This is totally different than the other situations - how would SJU ever know about an internal WCC scandal?  It'd be like if we took a transfer from UNC who is now ineligible bc of the "paper" classes.  Would that be our fault too?

Let me get this straight, you're saying that due diligence isn't possible?

You may be hopeless.  You seem like a smart guy.  Tell me, how would due diligence have uncovered that a WCC employee was falsifying transcripts?  But yeah, you're right, St. John's should have sensed by osmosis or ESP that Keith's grades may have been falsified, right?

I may be hopeless, but not because of this. It seems to me that if you're bringing in a 23 year old junior with a record, that you'd be really f'n careful. Is this not why we have a compliance department or team?

Regarding the "record" c'mon Poison - we know it wasn't a huge infraction at all. Don't throw that in for effect....