Niagara Game Discussion

Exhibition games are for experiments.  Days away from Cuse and weeks from start of the Big East.  Substitution patterns (not sure they are patterns) are madening !

If this team is going to make the tourney the three reasons will be Harrison, Jordan and Obepka. Those three have to play well or we will fall short. So I don't care if he averages 10 to's a game under no circumstance should Jordan come off the bench. Anyone who thinks that he should needs a labotomy!

Disagree WASJU.  Knowing the "me" attitude that went on last year with Jakarr especially that hurt team chemistry and the team's results, in my opinion, I think nipping this in the bud in early season games is smart.  These guys are "already" going pro after the season, and may be treating the entire year as their own personal try-out.  We can't have that.  
It's not like he suspended Rysheed or didn't play him.  He was benched.  And Branch excelled in his absence.  I think Branch should be playing more for GREENE, but Rysheed has NOT been playing as well as he should against inferior competition thus far.  A simple message like coming off the bench maybe gets through to him.

Except we were playing as well as we have since Hardy year. No reason to mess with what is working. Play the best 6 guys, than sprinkle in Stewart and Jones or Jessica Albawhateverhisnameis.

Ball movement is so much better this year (so far).

The top 6 guys know there roles and don't have to worry about shots or minutes. The most disjointed game we played is the game where DR Lavinstein decided to mess up his short rotation. The main 6 guys and if 1 of the 3 of Jones, Stewart and whatshisname are all we need. In college you really only need to play 7. Our Elite 8 team basically only played 7. If we stick to 7 we make the tourney! I really liked the way we were playing up until yesterday.

Quote from: Tha Kid on December 03, 2014, 09:43:32 AM

Syracuse is our nemesis in the same way the Lakers are the clippers nemesis.

Or the way a ball of yarn is the nemesis of a cat.

I was going to say the way the Washington Generals are the nemesis to the Globetrotters, but I think the Generals won a game in the last 25 years. 

I'm pretty sure people were complaining about the bench guys getting no run.  yesterday lavin plays them, wins by 15, and people are complaining that they played too much and sju didn't win by more.  I'm not sure if these are the same people, but the guy can't win.  I kind of like the fact that stewart, amar, felix, and jones got to play in this game.  I don't think it hurt the core guys too much and now those guys will be a little bit more prepared if called upon. 

I'm pretty sure people were complaining about the bench guys getting no run. yesterday lavin plays them, wins by 15, and people are complaining that they played too much and sju didn't win by more. I'm not sure if these are the same people, but the guy can't win. I kind of like the fact that stewart, amar, felix, and jones got to play in this game. I don't think it hurt the core guys too much and now those guys will be a little bit more prepared if called upon.

Can you name another D1 coach who gets his reserves playing experience by starting them? I can't. No one is complaining that the reserves got minutes. In fact I'm pretty sure that if SJU came out yesterday and put a beat down on Niagara and then the reserves got in no one would be complaining at all. Unless they were complaining that Balamou Jones and Alba got only 13 minutes between them, which is what they got yesterday, which isn't going to help anyone do anything. People are complaining about which minutes they got and at whose expense those minutes came and especially because this is the same sort of nonsensical early season personnel management that cost SJ a tournament berth last year.

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on December 02, 2014, 11:04:27 PM

Quote from: Marillac on December 02, 2014, 10:54:23 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on December 02, 2014, 10:32:06 PM

We have a good team. Why not just enjoy this season. If you are right you can just complain about it next year.

It's much more fun to come up with negative hypotheticals and then destroy Lavin for them instead of enjoying a fun team that is 5-1 and receiving votes in two different polls.

lol Yeah before 75s, post to me I was going after next years team huh? If people posts to me, I will continue to reply to them. If it's about next years team, then I'll continue to debate them on next years team. If you're sick of me killing Lavin for next years team, then I suggest that people don't post to me about next years team. It's that simple.

Relax, Joe!

Truth!  

Quote from: Marillac on December 02, 2014, 11:17:37 PM

Quote from: Dave on December 02, 2014, 11:03:01 PM

Henderson is good practice depth but he isn't going to get minutes this year or future. Liam Beasley and Kevin Clark were better.

You've posted some dumb stuff in your day, but this may take the cake. I don't see Henderson as top 5-7 rotation guy by any means (especially with Stewart around), but Liam and Kevin (both great guys) should never be in the same sentence as Henderson.

Why not? Both Biesty and Clark averaged about double the amount of ppg as Henderson in high school. All Henderson has on them is 3 inches and he can dunk. He's a fringe DI player who decided to walk-on. For comparison sake take a look at Emile Blackman. I used to call him mini Artest in high school. He is by far a superior player than Henderson and while he had some DI interest he chose to play at DII CW Post and eventually follow Coach Casey to Niagara. There are a ton of guys out there who play DII who are probably better than Henderson. Henderson played for a high profile grassroots team and he probably caught hot one weekend and drew some mild interest from mid-high majors but the fact remains he's just an average guard who is great to have as a preferred walk-on. He seems like a great kid who is excited to be a part of the team and grateful he is but lets not exaggerate his level of potential.

I don't even know where to start. Using PPG in high school to support your argument is useless.  Henderson's Lake Highland team would have beaten Beasley's Poly Prep team by 40.  There are kids that score way more than all of the players mentioned above that don't even have D-3 ability. Next, your assertion that there are better talents at the D-2 level than Henderson...obviously.  There are better players at the D-2 level than many guys our roster and on ever roster (besides maybe UK).  D-2 kids make the NBA routinely (Charles Oakley, Ben Wallace, Phil Jackson, etc.)
Just stop, dude.  Biesty was tiny and unathletic.  He couldn't play when we had Phil Missere (another walkon), Dexter Gray, Eugene Lawrence, and Ricky Torres!  He never appeared in more than six games in a season (and just for the final seconds).
Also, don't hurt yourself too much by patting yourself on the back about Emil Blackman. Mini Artest?  This is almost as dumb as your other point.  The guy is in his third year of college. He scored a career high last night (2-7 on wide open threes that we give to everyone).  He scored 2 points the game before with six turnovers against St. Bonaventure.  He doesn't rebound or pass well.  Just like Artest right?  He only has 15 boards, 3 assists, and 2 steals in five games with 10 turnovers.  He is shooting 20% from three and he's only attempted eight FTS in five games. Henderson and Stewart would be double-digit scorers for Niagara as freshmen.  

While the game was closer than my ticker can take, it was interesting as we renewed this Vincentian battle with our longest non BE rival.  I enjoyed catching up with father Maher and seeing Chris Casey--his hair is thinner and his waste is thicker, but we all age each year.  Chris had his kids never quit despite the big difference which was predicted.  Niagara played tough as this was like our playing Duke--their game of the year outside the conference. 

Niagara's Blackman was a surprise as a player but he has good tradition on his side as he is Mark Jackson's nephew.  When you see him from profile he is the spitting image of his uncle; only things missing were assists and lining up his FT's.  Did anyone see him in HS?  What was he like as I saw no mention of him in our archives.  It would have been great to have the second coming of one of my all time favorites.

Glad to see Underarmor step up and make Chris shorts in his preferred length.

While starting Stewart was one of those moments that make you wonder what is he smoking, it may help in the long run as we finally had another player get nearly 20 minutes and increase our depth.  The team actually looked for him for a change; something that never seemed to happen for Hooper.  He gives us another 5 fouls and increases the depth.  I also saw that Sheed played more under control; the 9 TO's in the last game were unacceptable.  Branch merits another start.

Fun pretty much summed it up nicely but I will add that all good basketball teams have a set rotation of about 8 guys. Bad teams juggle starting lineupos and rotations. The main reason I keep predicting a tourney for this years's team is it was pretty obvious who our best 6 players are and it would be hard to mess that up.

Also, don't hurt yourself too much by patting yourself on the back .

Fans of irony take note.

Quote from: Marillac on December 03, 2014, 02:39:20 PM

Also, don't hurt yourself too much by patting yourself on the back .

Fans of irony take note.

Marillac is clearly all for posters taking credit.  The point of that statement was more "not so fast, Junior." Emil is at the appropriate level.  

Henderson is good practice depth but he isn't going to get minutes this year or future. Liam Beasley and Kevin Clark were better. Stewart is solid. Was under recruited due to injury and played for two of Lavin's connections in Westchester HS and Earl Watson Elite travel team. I like his length and demeanor on the floor. He is a solid replacement for Hooper. It was good to see Lavin use a deep rotation this game. He needed to get these guys some minutes because they will be needed at some point this year. Hopefully FDU or Fordham they can get some run too.

You mean Liam Biesty? Come on, Henderson had D1 looks. 

I'm not as against starting Branch and Stewart as I was when I first saw it. Lavin has to find a way to have Pointer and Obekpa in the game at the end of the game, and he can't have them thinking about foul trouble while they are trying to guard SU's lot of future NBAers. 
The problem I had with his line ups and rotations were that they seemed so pointless.
Stewart is 6'5. He can shoot over a zone. We're going to need shooters out there to even have a prayer to beat them. Pointer isn't going to shoot from outside of ten feet. Branch is not a strong shooter. Harrison and Greene are hot and cold. So is Jordan. With Stewart, hopefully, we have added something we've lacked: a shooter who moves without the ball. I really liked what I saw from him. 

Quote from: Dave on December 02, 2014, 11:03:01 PM

Henderson is good practice depth but he isn't going to get minutes this year or future. Liam Beasley and Kevin Clark were better. Stewart is solid. Was under recruited due to injury and played for two of Lavin's connections in Westchester HS and Earl Watson Elite travel team. I like his length and demeanor on the floor. He is a solid replacement for Hooper. It was good to see Lavin use a deep rotation this game. He needed to get these guys some minutes because they will be needed at some point this year. Hopefully FDU or Fordham they can get some run too.

You mean Liam Biesty? Come on, Henderson had D1 looks.

Get'em Mase.  This is one of the most absurd things ever posted on a St. John's site.  He must pay. 

Quote from: Dave on December 03, 2014, 01:29:57 AM

Quote from: Marillac on December 02, 2014, 11:17:37 PM

Quote from: Dave on December 02, 2014, 11:03:01 PM

Henderson is good practice depth but he isn't going to get minutes this year or future. Liam Beasley and Kevin Clark were better.

You've posted some dumb stuff in your day, but this may take the cake. I don't see Henderson as top 5-7 rotation guy by any means (especially with Stewart around), but Liam and Kevin (both great guys) should never be in the same sentence as Henderson.

Why not? Both Biesty and Clark averaged about double the amount of ppg as Henderson in high school. All Henderson has on them is 3 inches and he can dunk. He's a fringe DI player who decided to walk-on. For comparison sake take a look at Emile Blackman. I used to call him mini Artest in high school. He is by far a superior player than Henderson and while he had some DI interest he chose to play at DII CW Post and eventually follow Coach Casey to Niagara. There are a ton of guys out there who play DII who are probably better than Henderson. Henderson played for a high profile grassroots team and he probably caught hot one weekend and drew some mild interest from mid-high majors but the fact remains he's just an average guard who is great to have as a preferred walk-on. He seems like a great kid who is excited to be a part of the team and grateful he is but lets not exaggerate his level of potential.

I don't even know where to start. Using PPG in high school to support your argument is useless. Henderson's Lake Highland team would have beaten Beasley's Poly Prep team by 40. There are kids that score way more than all of the players mentioned above that don't even have D-3 ability. Next, your assertion that there are better talents at the D-2 level than Henderson...obviously. There are better players at the D-2 level than many guys our roster and on ever roster (besides maybe UK). D-2 kids make the NBA routinely (Charles Oakley, Ben Wallace, Phil Jackson, etc.) Just stop, dude. Biesty was tiny and unathletic. He couldn't play when we had Phil Missere (another walkon), Dexter Gray, Eugene Lawrence, and Ricky Torres! He never appeared in more than six games in a season (and just for the final seconds). Also, don't hurt yourself too much by patting yourself on the back about Emil Blackman. Mini Artest? This is almost as dumb as your other point. The guy is in his third year of college. He scored a career high last night (2-7 on wide open threes that we give to everyone). He scored 2 points the game before with six turnovers against St. Bonaventure. He doesn't rebound or pass well. Just like Artest right? He only has 15 boards, 3 assists, and 2 steals in five games with 10 turnovers. He is shooting 20% from three and he's only attempted eight FTS in five games. Henderson and Stewart would be double-digit scorers for Niagara as freshmen.

You lost me at DII players routinely make the NBA. Blackman is a nice player but clearly out classed at this level yet he is clearly a better player than Henderson which is my point. Henderson is a very good walk-on but it's unwise to think he is more.
 
Also Blackman is a mini clone of Artest. Doesn't mean he's on the same career path.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 03, 2014, 02:56:33 PM

Quote from: Dave on December 02, 2014, 11:03:01 PM

Henderson is good practice depth but he isn't going to get minutes this year or future. Liam Beasley and Kevin Clark were better. Stewart is solid. Was under recruited due to injury and played for two of Lavin's connections in Westchester HS and Earl Watson Elite travel team. I like his length and demeanor on the floor. He is a solid replacement for Hooper. It was good to see Lavin use a deep rotation this game. He needed to get these guys some minutes because they will be needed at some point this year. Hopefully FDU or Fordham they can get some run too.

You mean Liam Biesty? Come on, Henderson had D1 looks.

Get'em Mase. This is one of the most absurd things ever posted on a St. John's site. He must pay.

You guys should create a "Disagree with Dave" group. I'd be all for it. 
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I'm pretty sure people were complaining about the bench guys getting no run.  yesterday lavin plays them, wins by 15, and people are complaining that they played too much and sju didn't win by more.  I'm not sure if these are the same people, but the guy can't win.  I kind of like the fact that stewart, amar, felix, and jones got to play in this game.  I don't think it hurt the core guys too much and now those guys will be a little bit more prepared if called upon.

Hey Napes, I know you're smart. Why we complain last night?
Maybe it was because we go up 15 early, then Lavin start his bs, tell me Napes, what did a 1-3 Niagara club cut it to? 1.
Did you watch it? If you did, are you gonna tell me that nah you weren't sweating it, that you knew that we were gonna pull away?

Want the bench players to get experience? Well fine, we all know they need live game experience.
But why can't we build a 25-30pnt lead first then put them in, in the last 10minutes?