WHO IS TO BLAME?

Quote from: Foad on December 12, 2014, 02:17:20 PM

Willie Shaw and Marcus Hatten were junkies

What???

Where I live, what Willie and Marcus did is not only legal, but it's not frowned upon in any way/shape/form. As long as your 18, SMOKE EM IF YOU GOT EM

The Evil Weed.  Junkies indeed. Lol.  

If NYC cops kill over cigs imagine what happens if they catch you with the Chron? 

Irony is wasted on the stupid.

Quote from: we are sju on December 12, 2014, 01:04:17 PM

But now he seems to have an issue with his players. Is this a case of the type of kids he is forced to recruit. Did the time away from coaching rob Lavin of his tolerance of immature kids? Little bit of both?

I hate to keep back to the psychology of it all, but: Lavin flamed out spectacularly at UCLA, the highest profile job in college basketball. He was lampooned by UCLA fans, which lampooning in retrospect was evidently entirely justified. He then went to ESPN where he hung around with Dick Vitale and all the other failed coaches clapping each other on the back about how much they know about basketball. He then comes to SJU, which has a storied basketball tradition - as much as I hate all that glory days nonsense, it's true. And other than winning with the other guys players and some early recruiting success, he hasn't done much of anything. If he fails here, it's over for him: he'll never get another job and will have been exposed as a complete buffoon. What all the drama does - which he creates, wittingly or unwittingly - is excuse his failure. We didn't make the tournament one year because he suspended Harrison for Harrison's own good. We didn't make the tournament last year because the delicate genius couldn't figure out which were his best six players. He tells the press that Adonis is too fat to run up and down the court, for his own good. And now it's Jordan, the victim of tough love, because there are more important things than winning. There have been lots of SJU players with issues. Mullin was a drunk. Walter Berry was a prima donna. Jayson Williams is a psychopath. Kevin Williams wasn't far from one. Shariff Fordham was a crack dealer, Willie Shaw and Marcus Hatten were junkies, Alan Seiden was a degenerate gambler and Sonny Dove and a bunch of other players were implicated in point shaving. That's off the top of my head. There has never been a coach in my lifetime who aired his laundry in public like this. Not even Mike Jarvis, rape victim. Who humiliates his players and then piously claims it's for their own good. Part of that probably has to do with social media and the 24 hour news cycle. But alot of it has to do with Lavin. He's allegedly the grown up.

Two St John's players were caught shaving points when Lapchick was coach.  Another was approached and was blacklisted for not reporting it.  None of those players were named Sonny Dove.

Quote from: Foad on December 12, 2014, 02:17:20 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 12, 2014, 01:04:17 PM

But now he seems to have an issue with his players. Is this a case of the type of kids he is forced to recruit. Did the time away from coaching rob Lavin of his tolerance of immature kids? Little bit of both?

I hate to keep back to the psychology of it all, but: Lavin flamed out spectacularly at UCLA, the highest profile job in college basketball. He was lampooned by UCLA fans, which lampooning in retrospect was evidently entirely justified. He then went to ESPN where he hung around with Dick Vitale and all the other failed coaches clapping each other on the back about how much they know about basketball. He then comes to SJU, which has a storied basketball tradition - as much as I hate all that glory days nonsense, it's true. And other than winning with the other guys players and some early recruiting success, he hasn't done much of anything. If he fails here, it's over for him: he'll never get another job and will have been exposed as a complete buffoon. What all the drama does - which he creates, wittingly or unwittingly - is excuse his failure. We didn't make the tournament one year because he suspended Harrison for Harrison's own good. We didn't make the tournament last year because the delicate genius couldn't figure out which were his best six players. He tells the press that Adonis is too fat to run up and down the court, for his own good. And now it's Jordan, the victim of tough love, because there are more important things than winning. There have been lots of SJU players with issues. Mullin was a drunk. Walter Berry was a prima donna. Jayson Williams is a psychopath. Kevin Williams wasn't far from one. Shariff Fordham was a crack dealer, Willie Shaw and Marcus Hatten were junkies, Alan Seiden was a degenerate gambler and Sonny Dove and a bunch of other players were implicated in point shaving. That's off the top of my head. There has never been a coach in my lifetime who aired his laundry in public like this. Not even Mike Jarvis, rape victim. Who humiliates his players and then piously claims it's for their own good. Part of that probably has to do with social media and the 24 hour news cycle. But alot of it has to do with Lavin. He's allegedly the grown up.

Two St John's players were caught shaving points when Lapchick was coach. Another was approached and was blacklisted for not reporting it. None of those players were named Sonny Dove.

He was being ironic.?

Baldi

Dean Wormer

Two St John's players were caught shaving points when Lapchick was coach. Another was approached and was blacklisted for not reporting it. None of those players were named Sonny Dove.

You're correct and my apologies to Sonny Dove. I was thinking of Tony Jackson. Charlie Rosen named him and Seiden in his book about Jack Molinas, the Wizard of Odds.

I believe he called him pizza face. 

Also, I don't think I ever answered the question in the title of this thread.. I blame no one but Rysheed for how he acts off the court. For dressing down in a manner that disrespects his position and the university, and for referring to robin hood in his post game comments after our biggest win in years... for these, and many other things, I blame Lavin.

Seriously you are a joke with this issue on how he dresses. If the university has an issue it would've been addressed. disrespecting his position? Time for you to move on.

Who is to blame--probably whoever started this dribble

Who is to blame--probably whoever started this dribble

Some guy Tom, go bitch to him 

So this whole thread leads right back to do we give Lavin an extension thread. The drama is so exciting!

Every time we hear rumors of bad news, a few people in know tell us it's nothing, like with Keith Thomas, yet it usually is something, or we wouldn't be discussing it. To answer the question who is to blame, both Lavin and Jordan are probably to blame.

Well, let me clarify. Lavin is 100% responsible for his recruiting, his coaching and his team's results. Jordan, while being coached by what seems like an idiot, is still at fault for not following one or two or maybe three of Lavin's rules. Are these rules helping to create a better program at St.John's? Of course not. But the other kids follow them, and we haven't seen another player penalized in any way this year. Except of course, Keith Thomas and Adonis Delarosa.

I went to the FDU game, and I thought that Jordan played very well. He may force a drive here and there, but I don't blame him for that. What offense is he supposed to run? Harrison and Greene are playing very well right now, but other than throwing them the ball on the three point line, or close to it for a jump shot, Jordan doesn't have many other plays to run. The team runs one play for Pointer. They don't really run anything for Obekpa, and considering all of this, I'd like to know what is Jordan supposed to do? His entire team sans Obekpa is camped out on the 3 point line as the clock runs down, so he penetrates. Sometimes it works out, usually it doesn't. The question is, what should he do instead?

Jordan, or Black Jesus, has an ego. A big one. If Black Jesus isn't enough to tell the world that this kid is impressed with himself, his name is Jordan, and he has the utter gaul to wear #23. Well, if you wanna wear #23, fine. Man up, and start playing like a guy who deserves to wear that number. If your coach has rules that you don't agree with, suck it up and follow them anyway. The fans don't like his rules any more than Jordan does, but we're sucking it up too, and coming out to support the team anyway on Sunday. All 2,500 of us.

Only thing I'll say on this thread is.
Why when we finally get ranked, we are playing real good.
Now this RJ transferring rumor has to begin.
It's like us SJU fans aren't supposed to be feeling good about our team.

Yeah we're kicking ass, we are now ranked, but then smack smack smack hey don't start getting to happy now. RJ could be transferring.

It's so hard being a SJU fan when's there's bad vibe to always bring you down, when you're finally feeling upbeat about them.

Only thing I'll say on this thread is. Why when we finally get ranked, we are playing real good. Now this RJ transferring rumor has to begin. It's like us SJU fans aren't supposed to be feeling good about our team. Yeah we're kicking ass, we are now ranked, but then smack smack smack hey don't start getting to happy now. RJ could be transferring. It's so hard being a SJU fan when's there's bad vibe to always bring you down, when you're finally feeling upbeat about them.

I can't remember a season w out issues. Except when Norm coached, and we just sucked. I'm hopeful that Jordan will tow the line, and want to be part of a winning team. 
I'm also not buying any of this NBA crap, he ain't a pro baller now just because Sampson did it. Sampson, by the way is probably the worst player in the league, but good for him for getting paid, and finding the one team dumb enough to hire him. Lot of good that's done. Harrison was out after his soph year, and he's a senior now. Obekpa was never staying 3 years, yet, there he is. If Jordan jumps after this year, shouldn't it be after he's accomplished something first? Don't we have players that care about St.John's basketball? 
Take control of the offense. Stop with the careless turnovers, and show everyone what you can really do. No NBA team is drafting a combo guard project. There's just no need to take a chance on a guard w so many fundamentally sound and talented players. But Jordan can develop into a pro guard, but he needs a lot of work. 

So everyone is having a meltdown because Jordan may be unhappy. Lavin is trying to win college basketball games, not improve Jprdan's draft stock.  Their is no issue here. We win Sunday. Jordan will play well.  If he is the coach's dog house he should figure out how to get out of it.  Now some of you are blaming him for not kissing  his ass enough.
Nothing happened since we beat FDU soundly except a few people flaming a message board.

Just read his twitter. He didn't seem unhappy. He re tweets just about anything including many positive things about playing basketball at St. Johns. If his entire twitter page was posted their wouldn't have been an issue. Someone who knows how to do that please do.

I think Jordan just feels disrespected because of the way lavin dresses. I would probably also transfer under those circumstances. 

Every time we hear rumors of bad news, a few people in know tell us it's nothing, like with Keith Thomas, yet it usually is something, or we wouldn't be discussing it. To answer the question who is to blame, both Lavin and Jordan are probably to blame. Well, let me clarify. Lavin is 100% responsible for his recruiting, his coaching and his team's results. Jordan, while being coached by what seems like an idiot, is still at fault for not following one or two or maybe three of Lavin's rules. Are these rules helping to create a better program at St.John's? Of course not. But the other kids follow them, and we haven't seen another player penalized in any way this year. Except of course, Keith Thomas and Adonis Delarosa. I went to the FDU game, and I thought that Jordan played very well. He may force a drive here and there, but I don't blame him for that. What offense is he supposed to run? Harrison and Greene are playing very well right now, but other than throwing them the ball on the three point line, or close to it for a jump shot, Jordan doesn't have many other plays to run. The team runs one play for Pointer. They don't really run anything for Obekpa, and considering all of this, I'd like to know what is Jordan supposed to do? His entire team sans Obekpa is camped out on the 3 point line as the clock runs down, so he penetrates. Sometimes it works out, usually it doesn't. The question is, what should he do instead? Jordan, or Black Jesus, has an ego. A big one. If Black Jesus isn't enough to tell the world that this kid is impressed with himself, his name is Jordan, and he has the utter gaul to wear #23. Well, if you wanna wear #23, fine. Man up, and start playing like a guy who deserves to wear that number. If your coach has rules that you don't agree with, suck it up and follow them anyway. The fans don't like his rules any more than Jordan does, but we're sucking it up too, and coming out to support the team anyway on Sunday. All 2,500 of us.

POTD