Early season Most Improved Player

Obekpas offensive is improved . It went from amazingly bad to below average . He can hit a free throw . He has drop step post move. He went left and hit a layup vs Fordham . Wasn't an amazing move but he couldn't do that last year.

Obepka is rebounding better but for a 6-10 guy his shooting % is embarrasing. Really his biggest improvement is he is getting more minutes.

Dom is playing the way he played as a Soph. Had a bad year last year

Phil is not being asked to do things he can't, so he is much more comfortable.

Harrison is Harrison.

My vote for most improved is Lavin. Staying out of his own way mostly and that is the biggest difference IMO

Went with Obekpa over Pointer, by a slim margin. 

Harrison's mid-range game is incredibly improved and also deserves mention. 

Anecdotes make for good stories, but don't prove a pattern.    Obekpas rebounding is better, his foul shooting has improved; and together, those two items might make him our most improved player.
But his offense is not better than last season.   He shoots more, makes less, and passes less often.     (sounds like someone showcasing for the nba).  

Quote from: apesNapes on December 16, 2014, 10:02:22 AM

Quote from: QuanMan on December 16, 2014, 09:51:13 AM

I thought players don't show any improvement under Lavs and his staff? Obek, Sir, Sheed, and Dee in that order.

most have definitely improved from last year. I would probably go: Dom, Greene, Obekpa, D'lo, Sheed.

Greene is shooting 39 percent from the floor and 31 percent from three. Last year he shot 39 percent from the floor and 40 percent from three. He has fewer assists pg this year than last by a third (1.1 vs 1.5) and twice as many turnovers (.6 vs 1.2) : his ATO last year was 3:1, this year it's less than 1:1. Forget the three good minutes he played vs Syracuse. By what metric has he improved?

troll on bro
I don't want to sound like carmine, but what about his 58% increase in points per game from 7.4 to 11.7, or his free throw % improvement from 65% to 80%, or the fact that he has managed to give up the ball on the fast break and in the half court and look to spot up (probably his biggest improvement).  Also, I like how you concede the point by saying the guy should be judge one all of  his play except for the best minutes the guy has ever played.  You probably judge eli manning on everything he has done except the manningham and tyree passes that won super bowls.

I'm surprised people don't see the improvement in Obekpa..  It's pretty clear imo..

Doubled his rebounding average... Markedly improved at the FT line...FG percentage is down, but he shoots so infrequently that can ( and I think will), change quickly...I mean, in one or two games he went from 25% to 37%....  And he controls the game from the defensive end in the paint. 
He is passing nicely out of the block also..  Not trying to sway anyone because I really don't care all that much... Just giving an opinion

The biggest areas we have improved on IMO
1. Lavin being destructive
2. Defined rotation and lineup
3. Obekpa rebounding
4. Pointer playing like he did as a Soph
5. The passing is much better, which makes sense since we basically play 4 guards

Statistical sample is small but it speaks volumes that the fanbase is receptive to this topic.  A two game losing streak starting now and an "Early season Most Regressed Player" thread could be started.  If 3'lo hits both free throws at the end or Chris doesn't throw the ball to the ceiling in OT against Penn State - we might have seen this last year.  It's a fine line.

I voted for Dom but can easily see others.  The main thing is that Nobody is playing worse except maybe Phil - and he has shined brightest of all in crunch time against our two toughest opponents so nobody is complaining about his body of work thus far.

#20 ranking with winnable??? games on the horizon.  Exciting stuff!

Quote from: Foad on December 16, 2014, 10:19:32 AM

Quote from: apesNapes on December 16, 2014, 10:02:22 AM

Quote from: QuanMan on December 16, 2014, 09:51:13 AM

I thought players don't show any improvement under Lavs and his staff? Obek, Sir, Sheed, and Dee in that order.

most have definitely improved from last year. I would probably go: Dom, Greene, Obekpa, D'lo, Sheed.

Greene is shooting 39 percent from the floor and 31 percent from three. Last year he shot 39 percent from the floor and 40 percent from three. He has fewer assists pg this year than last by a third (1.1 vs 1.5) and twice as many turnovers (.6 vs 1.2) : his ATO last year was 3:1, this year it's less than 1:1. Forget the three good minutes he played vs Syracuse. By what metric has he improved?

troll on bro I don't want to sound like carmine, but what about his 58% increase in points per game from 7.4 to 11.7, or his free throw % improvement from 65% to 80%, or the fact that he has managed to give up the ball on the fast break and in the half court and look to spot up (probably his biggest improvement). Also, I like how you concede the point by saying the guy should be judge one all of his play except for the best minutes the guy has ever played. You probably judge eli manning on everything he has done except the manningham and tyree passes that won super bowls.

Phil Greene:
              Offensive rating -     e-FG % -      total shooting -      assist rating -      turnover rate
'15         92.5                           44.0              45.4                           7.1                     10.9
'14         105.5                          46.5              48.3                           11.6                   8.4
'13         91.3                           40.5               42.4                          15.9                    12.0
'12         88.8                            39.1              41.3                          19.2                    19.3

So, PG is shooting worse, passing less, and turning the ball over more.    He's helped the team win,
but he's not improved from last season. 

Quote from: Foad on December 16, 2014, 10:19:32 AM

Quote from: apesNapes on December 16, 2014, 10:02:22 AM

Quote from: QuanMan on December 16, 2014, 09:51:13 AM

I thought players don't show any improvement under Lavs and his staff? Obek, Sir, Sheed, and Dee in that order.

most have definitely improved from last year. I would probably go: Dom, Greene, Obekpa, D'lo, Sheed.

Greene is shooting 39 percent from the floor and 31 percent from three. Last year he shot 39 percent from the floor and 40 percent from three. He has fewer assists pg this year than last by a third (1.1 vs 1.5) and twice as many turnovers (.6 vs 1.2) : his ATO last year was 3:1, this year it's less than 1:1. Forget the three good minutes he played vs Syracuse. By what metric has he improved?

troll on bro I don't want to sound like carmine, but what about his 58% increase in points per game from 7.4 to 11.7, or his free throw % improvement from 65% to 80%, or the fact that he has managed to give up the ball on the fast break and in the half court and look to spot up (probably his biggest improvement). Also, I like how you concede the point by saying the guy should be judge one all of his play except for the best minutes the guy has ever played. You probably judge eli manning on everything he has done except the manningham and tyree passes that won super bowls.

I don't consider the use of facts and logic to be "trolling" - in fact I consider it the opposite. As usual, YMMV.

If the poll question asked which player played the best three minutes of the year I'd have voted for Greene. It didn't. It asked who improved the most and Greene has not. His numbers are more or less flat or worse across the board. He's scoring more points because he's playing more minutes and taking more shots. Because he's taking more shots he's also missing more shots, since he's shooting at the same percentage. You're correct that he's bettered his free throw shooting, but his FT shooting was pretty appalling, so that's about the least you could hope for, and I don't consider that the metric by which basketball improvement is measured. Again, YMMV.

Only playing 6 guys, everyone is comfortable and as a team they are playing better, becuase everyone knows their roles. Basketball is a team game and the team as a whole is improved  much more than any one individual.

It's 9 games in to a potential 35 game season...  The full year stats vs. stats thru 9 games this season, aren't really all that comparable..  
1/4 way through the season..  Let's revisit the number after the next 9 games... Will give a much more accurate comparison.

Quote from: apesNapes on December 16, 2014, 12:17:58 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 16, 2014, 10:19:32 AM

Quote from: apesNapes on December 16, 2014, 10:02:22 AM

Quote from: QuanMan on December 16, 2014, 09:51:13 AM

I thought players don't show any improvement under Lavs and his staff? Obek, Sir, Sheed, and Dee in that order.

most have definitely improved from last year. I would probably go: Dom, Greene, Obekpa, D'lo, Sheed.

Greene is shooting 39 percent from the floor and 31 percent from three. Last year he shot 39 percent from the floor and 40 percent from three. He has fewer assists pg this year than last by a third (1.1 vs 1.5) and twice as many turnovers (.6 vs 1.2) : his ATO last year was 3:1, this year it's less than 1:1. Forget the three good minutes he played vs Syracuse. By what metric has he improved?

troll on bro I don't want to sound like carmine, but what about his 58% increase in points per game from 7.4 to 11.7, or his free throw % improvement from 65% to 80%, or the fact that he has managed to give up the ball on the fast break and in the half court and look to spot up (probably his biggest improvement). Also, I like how you concede the point by saying the guy should be judge one all of his play except for the best minutes the guy has ever played. You probably judge eli manning on everything he has done except the manningham and tyree passes that won super bowls.

Phil Greene: Offensive rating - e-FG % - total shooting - assist rating - turnover rate '15 92.5 44.0 45.4 7.1 10.9 '14 105.5 46.5 48.3 11.6 8.4 '13 91.3 40.5 42.4 15.9 12.0 '12 88.8 39.1 41.3 19.2 19.3 So, PG is shooting worse, passing less, and turning the ball over more. He's helped the team win, but he's not improved from last season.

Quote from: apesNapes on December 16, 2014, 12:17:58 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 16, 2014, 10:19:32 AM

Quote from: apesNapes on December 16, 2014, 10:02:22 AM

Quote from: QuanMan on December 16, 2014, 09:51:13 AM

I thought players don't show any improvement under Lavs and his staff? Obek, Sir, Sheed, and Dee in that order.

most have definitely improved from last year. I would probably go: Dom, Greene, Obekpa, D'lo, Sheed.

Greene is shooting 39 percent from the floor and 31 percent from three. Last year he shot 39 percent from the floor and 40 percent from three. He has fewer assists pg this year than last by a third (1.1 vs 1.5) and twice as many turnovers (.6 vs 1.2) : his ATO last year was 3:1, this year it's less than 1:1. Forget the three good minutes he played vs Syracuse. By what metric has he improved?

troll on bro I don't want to sound like carmine, but what about his 58% increase in points per game from 7.4 to 11.7, or his free throw % improvement from 65% to 80%, or the fact that he has managed to give up the ball on the fast break and in the half court and look to spot up (probably his biggest improvement). Also, I like how you concede the point by saying the guy should be judge one all of his play except for the best minutes the guy has ever played. You probably judge eli manning on everything he has done except the manningham and tyree passes that won super bowls.

Phil Greene: Offensive rating - e-FG % - total shooting - assist rating - turnover rate '15 92.5 44.0 45.4 7.1 10.9 '14 105.5 46.5 48.3 11.6 8.4 '13 91.3 40.5 42.4 15.9 12.0 '12 88.8 39.1 41.3 19.2 19.3 So, PG is shooting worse, passing less, and turning the ball over more. He's helped the team win, but he's not improved from last season.

What do these columns mean?

I put Dom, because really has done a little bit of everything this year to include exciting the crowd with great dunks. I can also see CO as he has now become an offensive threat which will help out our shooters. 
The question is who do you think is the next most important person on the team other then Harrison and Jordan...Could SJU get away with playing a small line up with CO for multiple games, or is losing Dom as a "Cosco" player be a bigger blow to the team? 

but his FT shooting was pretty appalling,

The opposite:

Mr. Greenejeans  FT%

11/12                   75%
12/13                   72%
13/14                   65%
14/15                   80%

You know when I was a kid, we used to think that Zappa's real name was Reuben Sano because of the picture on Reuben and the Jets.  Funny how these rumors go.

We're fighting over who's improved the most under Lavin. 

Don't feel like starting a new thread, but Lavin will be an in studio guest tomorrow at wfan 4:30 pm... No Francesa, who is off, will be Evan/Joe.  Don't expect too much insight.

Don't feel like starting a new thread, but Lavin will be an in studio guest tomorrow at wfan 4:30 pm... No Francesa, who is off, will be Evan/Joe. Don't expect too much insight.

Perfect time to say he has been extended indefinitely :-).

Quote from: Foad on December 16, 2014, 12:36:06 PM

but his FT shooting was pretty appalling,

The opposite

Appalling means terrible. The opposite of appalling is wonderful. If you are correct that his FT last year was the opposite of appalling, then 65 percent FT shooting is wonderful. OTOH if 65 percent FT shooting is not wonderful, then we can put the English language down as another thing about which you know FA.