Does Lavin deserve an extension

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Poison

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #120 on: March 03, 2015, 03:12:56 PM »
What are the reasons he deserves an extension?

3 - 20 win season out of 5
2 - NCAA Tournament bids
The first group of Seniors he has to stay are all graduating.



From a basketball sense, were you expecting more?

Sure but I wasn't expecting him to have cancer for a year either.  To pretend like that didn't affect things would be foolish.  If we get a good recruiting class for next year he deserves to come back.  I bet 3/5 appearances would be fair to expect from lavin going forward personally.

He had cancer yes. But he also proclaimed himself the teams GM, traveling around the world on so called recruiting trips. Team should be stacked, not in rebuilding mode yet again.

when has SJU ever been STACKED..?

1985.

Lavin's boasted so often about his #2 ranked recruiting class that it's salt on a wound whenener he brings it up to describe accomplishments at St.John's. In that regard, he's no different than Brian Mahoney, who's greatest achievement at St.John's was comvincing Felipe Lopez and Zendon Hamilton to come here.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 03:17:15 PM by Poison »

TONYD3

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #121 on: March 03, 2015, 03:29:15 PM »
I don't know some of you can be so impressed by Harrison, Pointer, and Phil and give the coach who brought them here and developed them any praise. This is a good team that is well coached. The team has plenty of talent. His first recruiting class was excellent. The next 2 were very good. Last years is incomplete. If Delerosa is good the class is good.
We were better then Georgetown his first year and better then them last year. I think we are better this year. Next years team of:
PG: Jordan
SG Sampson
SF: not sure-
PF Am ar
C Obekpa
Isn't terrible. Jordan will be one of the top players coming back. No matter what some of you say I cant believe he or Obekpa leave. If they do that would hurt the program but not the coaches fault. The guy has brought plenty of talent to Union Turnpike. Not as much as some. Easier to sell Georgetown then Jamaica Estates.


YOU can't believe CO or RJ won't come back.   But everyone else knows that's a possibility.   
And yes, to some degree it is his fault if they don't return.    He recruited two players who have been looking to leave since before they even got here. 
I believe it is possible. I don't be believe it is certain. You have been stating it is certain ALL YEAR.

desco80

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #122 on: March 03, 2015, 03:31:58 PM »
I don't know some of you can be so impressed by Harrison, Pointer, and Phil and give the coach who brought them here and developed them any praise. This is a good team that is well coached. The team has plenty of talent. His first recruiting class was excellent. The next 2 were very good. Last years is incomplete. If Delerosa is good the class is good.
We were better then Georgetown his first year and better then them last year. I think we are better this year. Next years team of:
PG: Jordan
SG Sampson
SF: not sure-
PF Am ar
C Obekpa
Isn't terrible. Jordan will be one of the top players coming back. No matter what some of you say I cant believe he or Obekpa leave. If they do that would hurt the program but not the coaches fault. The guy has brought plenty of talent to Union Turnpike. Not as much as some. Easier to sell Georgetown then Jamaica Estates.


YOU can't believe CO or RJ won't come back.   But everyone else knows that's a possibility.   
And yes, to some degree it is his fault if they don't return.    He recruited two players who have been looking to leave since before they even got here. 
I believe it is possible. I don't be believe it is certain. You have been stating it is certain ALL YEAR.

That is absolutely not true.   I say it's likely, and we need to be prepared for it, because it was foreseeable.   
But I have never said there is no chance that either returns.     

Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #123 on: March 03, 2015, 03:32:58 PM »
He recruited two players who have been looking to leave since before they even got here. 

That's almost every kid in college.

Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #124 on: March 03, 2015, 03:44:08 PM »
Jay Wright made the NIT his first 3 years at Nova. Imagine if they fired him after that.
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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #125 on: March 03, 2015, 03:45:59 PM »
Jay Wright made the NIT his first 3 years at Nova. Imagine if they fired him after that.

Many wanted him fired.

Foad

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #126 on: March 03, 2015, 03:47:25 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #127 on: March 03, 2015, 03:50:06 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

desco80

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #128 on: March 03, 2015, 03:50:51 PM »
Desco, you deserve Coach K ....the top coach in college basketball history.  And of course, you'd still complain,but you deserve nothing less.

Really?   I don't like Lavin, so that means I could only be satisfied by the winning-est coach ever?     

He has moved the program forward.  We are better than we were under Norm.  The perception of the program and it's visibility has improved.  He made a tournament in 2010 and it looks like he might again this season.
All of these things are true.

But I truthfully don't know if that is good enough.   I also look at the state of the program and wonder if the brief success of two 1st round losses, is worth struggling for the next 2+ years.
Because I don't think we get Diallo, and I think we lose at least one of Sheed or Chris, and possibly both.   That will leave us rebuilding when we should be peaking.   
Players leave early.  Thats part of the game now.   As a coach he has to manage that better.  And one way to manage that is to build depth in your program.
His starters have been quite good, but his role players and bench players have never been of the quality that can step up and become starters.   From Marco and GG to Hooper, Felix, Jones, JDR, and so on.
With the exception of last season, I don't think I've ever felt that we had a full roster.   This year we are obviously thin in the frontcourt with two inelidgible big men.   When will we have a normal team with 2 at every position?

So, in this day of players constantly moving around you need to either develop your 2nd team players, or recruit guys who in a year or two can start and take the reigns.   He's failed to do that.
It's possible that Amir could be his first player capable of doing that.  It's "possible" that Adonis could start down the road, but in his case we're talking 2+ years from now, and in reality he might have to start next season.

The good don't out weigh the bad with Lavin.   
And, roll your eyes all you like, but his personality, habits, and other intangibles,  from what I can tell, do not impress me.   He's not someone I would hire. 
That has manifested itself not in how he has coached, but how he has handled discipline, how he has managed his roster and scholarships, and how he has assembled a staff.
Darrick Martin had never coached before.  He had worked in the front office.    Rico Hines had never coached before.  He was a trainer.   
And Tony Chiles is a recruiter.
Why is 4/5s of our staff not known for actually coaching the game of basketball?   How do you not let Dunlap return?
Why are we constantly taking chances on the most highly questionable recruits?   Michael Chandler, Artis etc.

There is a lot not to like here.   You can choose to ignore it because we're going to make the tournament and lose in the first round, but to me it is not kosher.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 03:52:40 PM by desco80 »

goredmen

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #129 on: March 03, 2015, 03:58:59 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Bad argument. we wouldn't have made the tournament with a win over PC in rd 1 of the BET last year. PC had a similar resume and the committee said they weren't in until they won the BET and they still got an 11 seed

Foad

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #130 on: March 03, 2015, 04:11:15 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.

I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.

Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #131 on: March 03, 2015, 04:27:07 PM »
Lavin knows how to keep things entertaining...honestly it's hard to judge anything until after the season. There are still so many ways that this season can go. Obviously the better he does the stronger the argument it is to give him an extension.
I think the new President will play hardball regardless of what happens (maybe accepts for an elite 8 run). Lavin will have to decide if he wants this kind of scrutiny and of course what kind of money is being offered. SJU is a rebuilding project for next year so a new coach can be brought in and start from scratch.

The recruits can verbal. Then if the school doesn't give Lavin and extension in march then decommitt. Atleast then the school would  see that Lavin has top recruits for our immediate future.

Is the new president going to pay a legit NCAA tournament coach? I'm cool with moving on, because I don't care for Lavin's coaching style and for his lack of recruiting the last 3 seasons, but to fire him only to bring in someone who hasn't been successful as a D1 head coach is really risky.

Danny Hurley might be the next great coach in college basketball, but if he comes here, and we see that he isn't, we're back to a mid major program like we were under under the hated Norm Roberts.

Lavin has been criticized, fairly, for not developing talent, for not settling on the right players and rotations, and for not establishing a clear defensive or offensive identity. That said, if he's going to be criticized for the lack of development in Phil Greene and Dom Pointer over the last 2/3 years, then he deserves credit for their success which has been impressive to say the least.
Last year, our rotations were awful. This year, Lavin has done a good job of getting the most out his limited bench. I feel like we are prepared to face a zone much better this year than in recent years. Our help defense has gone from awfuk to tremendous this season, and Georgetown is a great example of help defense at its very best. Just ask Josh Smith.

At the end of the day, the devil you know may be the best road to take.

I been saying all season, Lavin needs to take care of two things this season.
Make the NCAA Tournament (which all they need is 1 more win.), and part 2 is recruits for the future.
Sampson already committed. I'd be good with just one 5 star the rest of the way (Diallo), if not him then two 4 stars, that happens then yes give him an extension. Just want to make him earn it.

I don't think he's signing anymore recruits without an extension. Kids think he's a sitting duck. Nothing new at St.John's. Contract will have to come before his extension.

Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #132 on: March 03, 2015, 04:28:41 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.

I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.

There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

desco80

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #133 on: March 03, 2015, 04:51:06 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.

I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.

There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.

Can he still recruit at an elite level?    Because the last two seasons make me think not.   

Foad

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #134 on: March 03, 2015, 04:56:56 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.

I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.

There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.

Assuming Jordan leaves the reset button looks to be being pushed next year anyway. That said, I don't know that SJU can do better than Lavin or that it even matters. I think Saint John's is pretty much France: once a powerful force reduced to memories of grandeur. Every once in a while they get to kick the shit out of Mali or Algeria. But it's pretty much over.

Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #135 on: March 03, 2015, 05:01:18 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.

I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.

There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.

Can he still recruit at an elite level?    Because the last two seasons make me think not.   

Absolutely.

2013- Rysheed Jordan, Orlando Sanchez
2014- Adonis Delarosa, Joey Delarosa, Amar Alibegovic, Keith Thomas, Myles Stewart, Jay Henderson

2014 they swung for the fences on a few guys and missed. With the roster so loaded with upperclassman they could take that risk but they should have taken a more practical approach. Example a guy like Ben Bentil would have helped this team but they didn't go after him. All in all though I like Amar and Adonis. If Keith Thomas was on this team they would have really had a good rotation down low.

As for 2015 Brandon Sampson is as good of a recruit that has ever come here. They should have had Briscoe but they can still get Diallo. That's incredible. Doughty is a tough kid who is cut from the same cloth as DJ Kennedy. Fans will like him.

I do think St. John's needs to do a better job of having some plan B kids. They're after some big fish and they've hooked more than they've lost but need to be on some 3-star guys too.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #136 on: March 03, 2015, 05:03:48 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.

I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.

There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.

Assuming Jordan leaves the reset button looks to be being pushed next year anyway. That said, I don't know that SJU can do better than Lavin or that it even matters. I think Saint John's is pretty much France: once a powerful force reduced to memories of grandeur. Every once in a while they get to kick the shit out of Mali or Algeria. But it's pretty much over.


After the year Jordan had I'd be very hard pressed to see him leave. He'll be THE MAN next year and should increase his stock. 2016 draft class is going to be a lot weaker.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

desco80

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2015, 05:20:59 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.

I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.

There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.

Can he still recruit at an elite level?    Because the last two seasons make me think not.   

Absolutely.

2013- Rysheed Jordan, Orlando Sanchez
2014- Adonis Delarosa, Joey Delarosa, Amar Alibegovic, Keith Thomas, Myles Stewart, Jay Henderson

2014 they swung for the fences on a few guys and missed. With the roster so loaded with upperclassman they could take that risk but they should have taken a more practical approach. Example a guy like Ben Bentil would have helped this team but they didn't go after him. All in all though I like Amar and Adonis. If Keith Thomas was on this team they would have really had a good rotation down low.

As for 2015 Brandon Sampson is as good of a recruit that has ever come here. They should have had Briscoe but they can still get Diallo. That's incredible. Doughty is a tough kid who is cut from the same cloth as DJ Kennedy. Fans will like him.

I do think St. John's needs to do a better job of having some plan B kids. They're after some big fish and they've hooked more than they've lost but need to be on some 3-star guys too.

If this is truly the case, and Lavin will continue to recruit at an elite level -- then I can live with him.  I'll bitch and moan at times, but worse things could happen to the program.
If, however, Lavin remains but doesn't recruit like he did in '10, '11, and '12 - then we're in the sh*t.   

desco80

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #138 on: March 03, 2015, 05:21:19 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.

I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.

There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.

Assuming Jordan leaves the reset button looks to be being pushed next year anyway. That said, I don't know that SJU can do better than Lavin or that it even matters. I think Saint John's is pretty much France: once a powerful force reduced to memories of grandeur. Every once in a while they get to kick the shit out of Mali or Algeria. But it's pretty much over.


After the year Jordan had I'd be very hard pressed to see him leave. He'll be THE MAN next year and should increase his stock. 2016 draft class is going to be a lot weaker.

Kids are crazy, who knows.   

goredmen

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Re: Does Lavin deserve an extension
« Reply #139 on: March 03, 2015, 05:32:39 PM »
Maybe the real question is are we comfortable with a coach who can only win with seniors?

I've made great hay calling Lavin a chowderhead but maybe he's stupid like a fox. He found a situation where expectations are so low that making the tournament every four years is considered the greatest accomplishment since the building of the pyramids. He makes every excuse in the book and jibber jabbers about unicorns and baby steps and the rubes lap it up and can't wait to give him another 15 million dollars for his trouble. In five years he's won two post season games - a first round NIT game by 2 and a BE game he would have lost except Jim Burr is blind and Tim Higgins is a drunk. He comes right out and says he feels absolutely no pressure to win. Nah, not at Saint John's, it's not like UCLA. He doesn't have to win, he recruits the Appian Way every June, and he can even wear his pajamas on the sidelines. It's a pretty good gig all things considered.

If JaKarr Sampson dunks that ball against PC last year in Big East tourney. St. John's dances and he has 3 NCAA appearances in 5 years. Now I understand we're not playing horseshoes but I'd take the glass half full at this point.

Darn that Jakarr Sampson. He ruined everything. Although maybe if Lavin hadn't thrown away half a dozen games last January mixing and matching his rotations and starting his walkons the season wouldn't have come down to a single split second decision made by a sophomore who everyone and their brother claims was a cancer anyway.

I don't really care who the coach is and frankly I like having Lavin to kick around. He's my Jerry Ford. But if you think Lavin is the answer all that shows is that you don't understand the question.

There are less than a handful of a coaches who are truly the answer. I just don't believe the grass is any greener without Lavin for St. John's. I believe continuity is important than pressing reset button.

Yeah, it definitely didn't work when UVA fired Leitao for Bennett