Lavin's Seniors vs. Norm's Seniors

Quote from: we are sju on February 04, 2015, 12:23:24 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 04, 2015, 12:04:30 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on February 04, 2015, 11:35:56 AM

Which team had the better players?

Norm's team was much more balanced. Hate to say it, but Norm did a better job recruiting than Lavin. Lavin's players had a much higher ceiling, but clearly hasn't reached their potential.

How many of these guys would have played 5 years ago: Harrison definitely and this year's version of Pointer, and maybe Obekpa and Jordan, depending on what day of the week it was. How many of Norm's guys would start on this team. Pretty much all of them. Hardy, Brownlee, Kennedy, and Horne, who's loads better than Greene. Boothe > Branch. Evans and Burrell > JDLR and Ablivicovitch. I think no contest.

The big problem is the two best players on that team were the 6th and 7th men under Norm. Have to give Lavin credit for Hardy / Brownlee. That was the best thing Lavin has done since he has been here.

Why don't people realize this? 

Everyone realizes it.

Several posters--myself included--were screaming for both of those guys to play more and have bigger roles.  Let's be honest, Norm would have coached them to 18-19 wins, a losing Big East record, and an NIT. 

Norm had 10 juniors and his highest ranked recruit and four year starter, Mase Jr., as a 5th year senior and that team was awful. They started off 2-8 in conference and finished 6-10.  Last year was a complete disaster and Lavin started 0-5 in conference, but still finished 10-8 in conference. 

Norm was playing against Louisville, Syracuse, West Virginia, Notre Dame, Cinncinnati and Pittsburgh and UConn, not Butler Xavier and Creighton. And his combined salary for his assistants wouldn't cover Lavin's mousse budget. Why don't people realize this?

Norm was terrible in every way.  He was 15-65 in conference at Queens College.  His successor, Peponakis (an SJU grad and good guy) after two years of rebuilding the mess Roberts left him, has won two NYCAC titles, had three bids to the ncaa d-2 tournament, and has a winning record.

Queen's college, good grief. Why don't you bring up his kindergarten grades.

Norm had ten seniors.  Lavin has four. 

Why don't you say that Rob Thomas didn't play as senior or the 10 minutes of Kevin Clark?
If you add Clark why don't you mention N'Diaye?
Do you know that Dele Coker had played in 3 years less minutes than Chris Obekpa in 2 years?

Norms seniors were very satisfying to watch, especially since nobody expected anything out of them. The problems this team has are; thin bench,Harrison's injury and Sheeds antics. This team is talented, but as long as Harrison is injured and in a funk, We ain't going anywhere. Having Dunlap on the bench  was also a big help.

Norm was playing against Louisville, Syracuse, West Virginia, Notre Dame, Cinncinnati and Pittsburgh and UConn, not Butler Xavier and Creighton. And his combined salary for his assistants wouldn't cover Lavin's mousse budget. Why don't people realize this?

...he said, ignoring that Xavier and Butler are better than Syracuse, Pitt, Cinci and UConn, while being on the same level as WVU this year.  If you're referring to previous years, Butler went to two straight national title games, and Creighton was top 15 all year last year.  But you're right, chump programs.  Only reason we got 10 wins last year in this new conference is because we got to play teams that perennially made the dance and played in championship games.  We're basically cheating the system by playing in such a shit conference.  You know the one...it's ranked #2 in the country according to RPI and Kenpom.  Thank god for chump programs...

The problems this team has are; thin bench,Harrison's injury and Sheeds antics.

By jove I think he's got it!

Quote from: Foad on February 06, 2015, 09:13:15 AM

Norm was playing against Louisville, Syracuse, West Virginia, Notre Dame, Cinncinnati and Pittsburgh and UConn, not Butler Xavier and Creighton. And his combined salary for his assistants wouldn't cover Lavin's mousse budget. Why don't people realize this?

...he said, ignoring that Xavier and Butler are better than Syracuse, Pitt, Cinci and UConn, while being on the same level as WVU this year.  If you're referring to previous years, Butler went to two straight national title games, and Creighton was top 15 all year last year.  But you're right, chump programs.  Only reason we got 10 wins last year in this new conference is because we got to play teams that perennially made the dance and played in championship games.  We're basically cheating the system by playing in such a shit conference.  You know the one...it's ranked #2 in the country according to RPI and Kenpom.  Thank god for chump programs...

Stop bullying me Mr Internet Tough Guy.

Quote from: LoganK on February 06, 2015, 03:43:28 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 06, 2015, 09:13:15 AM

Norm was playing against Louisville, Syracuse, West Virginia, Notre Dame, Cinncinnati and Pittsburgh and UConn, not Butler Xavier and Creighton. And his combined salary for his assistants wouldn't cover Lavin's mousse budget. Why don't people realize this?

...he said, ignoring that Xavier and Butler are better than Syracuse, Pitt, Cinci and UConn, while being on the same level as WVU this year.  If you're referring to previous years, Butler went to two straight national title games, and Creighton was top 15 all year last year.  But you're right, chump programs.  Only reason we got 10 wins last year in this new conference is because we got to play teams that perennially made the dance and played in championship games.  We're basically cheating the system by playing in such a shit conference.  You know the one...it's ranked #2 in the country according to RPI and Kenpom.  Thank god for chump programs...

Stop bullying me Mr Internet Tough Guy.

Oh, right, sorry.  I forgot I wasn't allowed to respond to your posts anymore.

Quote from: Foad on February 06, 2015, 05:20:31 PM

Quote from: LoganK on February 06, 2015, 03:43:28 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 06, 2015, 09:13:15 AM

Norm was playing against Louisville, Syracuse, West Virginia, Notre Dame, Cinncinnati and Pittsburgh and UConn, not Butler Xavier and Creighton. And his combined salary for his assistants wouldn't cover Lavin's mousse budget. Why don't people realize this?

...he said, ignoring that Xavier and Butler are better than Syracuse, Pitt, Cinci and UConn, while being on the same level as WVU this year.  If you're referring to previous years, Butler went to two straight national title games, and Creighton was top 15 all year last year.  But you're right, chump programs.  Only reason we got 10 wins last year in this new conference is because we got to play teams that perennially made the dance and played in championship games.  We're basically cheating the system by playing in such a shit conference.  You know the one...it's ranked #2 in the country according to RPI and Kenpom.  Thank god for chump programs...

Stop bullying me Mr Internet Tough Guy.

Oh, right, sorry.  I forgot I wasn't allowed to respond to your posts anymore.

Obviously you can respond to whatever you want, although I'd prefer it if you didn't wet yourself in the process. However if you don't it'll save me the trouble of responding to your illogicisms, like where you compare Norm's valiant efforts versus West Virginia, Pitt, UConn, Louisville, and Syracuse five years ago to Lavin's versus Creighton last year. Because that's a charitably a non sequitur.

Quote from: Foad on February 06, 2015, 09:13:15 AM

Norm was playing against Louisville, Syracuse, West Virginia, Notre Dame, Cinncinnati and Pittsburgh and UConn, not Butler Xavier and Creighton. And his combined salary for his assistants wouldn't cover Lavin's mousse budget. Why don't people realize this?

...he said, ignoring that Xavier and Butler are better than Syracuse, Pitt, Cinci and UConn, while being on the same level as WVU this year.  If you're referring to previous years, Butler went to two straight national title games, and Creighton was top 15 all year last year.  But you're right, chump programs.  Only reason we got 10 wins last year in this new conference is because we got to play teams that perennially made the dance and played in championship games.  We're basically cheating the system by playing in such a shit conference.  You know the one...it's ranked #2 in the country according to RPI and Kenpom.  Thank god for chump programs...

Ouch.

Norm was playing against Louisville, Syracuse, West Virginia, Notre Dame, Cinncinnati and Pittsburgh and UConn, not Butler Xavier and Creighton. And his combined salary for his assistants wouldn't cover Lavin's mousse budget. Why don't people realize this?

However if you don't it'll save me the trouble of responding to your illogicisms, like where you compare Norm's valiant efforts versus West Virginia, Pitt, UConn, Louisville, and Syracuse five years ago to Lavin's versus Creighton last year. Because that's a charitably a non sequitur.

Um....you brought up the "illogicism" where you compared Norm's "valiant" efforts versus the ACC North to Lavin's efforts against the BE West.  Now you're blaming me for your ideas?

Great question.   How do you vote against Dilo,he's an unbelievable competitor. Horne & Paris both had solid game.  The player that disappointed me most and you never knew what he would do is Justin Burell. He had games in which his talent was unstopable and than other games his bi-polar game would show up and it was if the Johnnies were playing with four on the court.  Lavin's group I believe has greater upside.

A player like Justin Burrell is exactly who this years team needed.