Lavin

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 09:08:35 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on March 24, 2015, 08:27:26 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2015, 04:36:11 PM

Last year and this year were similar. I enjoyed both seasons. Was getting our ass kicked at mid night last Friday that awesome for some of you? I don't care who the coach is. I just want to enjoy a basketball season. Getting a new coach that takes 3 years just to get where we have been these last 5 years doesn't make any sense to me.

It's a major stretch to say that Lavin will pull the recruiting rabbit out of his to make this team competitive these next two years. If we don't land Diallo we have virtually no chance at an NCAA tourney this year or next

Say if he lands all of the other targets outside of Diallo?  I never knew simply landing Diallo was imperative to going to the NCAA tournament next year or in 2017. 

Again, I'm not taking up for Lavin, but some of these posts doesn't particularly make sense.  Like someone stated (I believe it was boo), I wish the administration decide what they're going to do very shortly.  Preferably, within another week.

If he lands all targets but Diallo we still dont make the tournament the next two years. People overestimate how good freshmen and sophomores are in college basketball. Unless the player is a top 10-15 recruit he will be nothing more than a role player his freshman season and will be between role player and go to guy in his sophomore season. In years 2 and 3 of the Lavin era we weren't very good because all the players were freshmen and sophomores despite them being 4 and 5 star recruits. I do not fault Lavin for that at all because I realize how hard it is for freshmen to come in and be very good college players right away.

Unless you are the Kentuckys and Dukes of the world you can't build a program by reloading with top freshmen every year. Please provide me with a realistic SJU roster that doesn't include Diallo that is going to make the tournament within the next 2 years

I'm not overestimating anything.  Obviously, you're overestimating freshmen by saying, if he doesn't land Diallo, then he emphatically stating he won't make the tournament for two years.  I've seen top 10-15 talent who still needs seasoning.  Do I have to name some of those past player's for you? 

Okay....  You want a roster that could be NCAA tournament-worthy without Diallo....  Here 'ya go:

Obekpa
Jordan
Sampson
Papagiannis
Mussini
LoVett
ADR
Ali
Benji Bell (JUCO from NW Florida)
Jalen Jackson (same school as Bell)
Doughty
Barnes Thompkins

 

I highly disagree with the idea that that would be an NCAA tournament team. This year SHU had a couple veterans, one very good one in Sterling Gibbs, two freshmen better than anybody on that list, and other role playing freshmen. You can't tell me any pair of freshmen on your list would be better than Whitehead or Delgado.

That being said, we both know that won't be our roster next year. Lavin would have to shoot 100% on every recruit outside of Diallo and have both Obekpa and Jordan stay

Quote from: mjdinkins on March 24, 2015, 09:18:16 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 09:08:35 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on March 24, 2015, 08:27:26 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2015, 04:36:11 PM

Last year and this year were similar. I enjoyed both seasons. Was getting our ass kicked at mid night last Friday that awesome for some of you? I don't care who the coach is. I just want to enjoy a basketball season. Getting a new coach that takes 3 years just to get where we have been these last 5 years doesn't make any sense to me.

It's a major stretch to say that Lavin will pull the recruiting rabbit out of his to make this team competitive these next two years. If we don't land Diallo we have virtually no chance at an NCAA tourney this year or next

Say if he lands all of the other targets outside of Diallo?  I never knew simply landing Diallo was imperative to going to the NCAA tournament next year or in 2017. 

Again, I'm not taking up for Lavin, but some of these posts doesn't particularly make sense.  Like someone stated (I believe it was boo), I wish the administration decide what they're going to do very shortly.  Preferably, within another week.

If he lands all targets but Diallo we still dont make the tournament the next two years. People overestimate how good freshmen and sophomores are in college basketball. Unless the player is a top 10-15 recruit he will be nothing more than a role player his freshman season and will be between role player and go to guy in his sophomore season. In years 2 and 3 of the Lavin era we weren't very good because all the players were freshmen and sophomores despite them being 4 and 5 star recruits. I do not fault Lavin for that at all because I realize how hard it is for freshmen to come in and be very good college players right away.

Unless you are the Kentuckys and Dukes of the world you can't build a program by reloading with top freshmen every year. Please provide me with a realistic SJU roster that doesn't include Diallo that is going to make the tournament within the next 2 years

I'm not overestimating anything.  Obviously, you're overestimating freshmen by saying, if he doesn't land Diallo, then he emphatically stating he won't make the tournament for two years.  I've seen top 10-15 talent who still needs seasoning.  Do I have to name some of those past player's for you? 

Okay....  You want a roster that could be NCAA tournament-worthy without Diallo....  Here 'ya go:

Obekpa
Jordan
Sampson
Papagiannis
Mussini
LoVett
ADR
Ali
Benji Bell (JUCO from NW Florida)
Jalen Jackson (same school as Bell)
Doughty
Barnes Thompkins

 

I highly disagree with the idea that that would be an NCAA tournament team. This year SHU had a couple veterans, one very good one in Sterling Gibbs, two freshmen better than anybody on that list, and other role playing freshmen. You can't tell me any pair of freshmen on your list would be better than Whitehead or Delgado.

That being said, we both know that won't be our roster next year. Lavin would have to shoot 100% on every recruit outside of Diallo and have both Obekpa and Jordan stay

Seton Hall's situation is irrelevant to ours.  You asked me about a roster that would be NCAA tournament-worthy, and I gave you my opinion. 

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 09:08:35 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on March 24, 2015, 08:27:26 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2015, 04:36:11 PM

Last year and this year were similar. I enjoyed both seasons. Was getting our ass kicked at mid night last Friday that awesome for some of you? I don't care who the coach is. I just want to enjoy a basketball season. Getting a new coach that takes 3 years just to get where we have been these last 5 years doesn't make any sense to me.

It's a major stretch to say that Lavin will pull the recruiting rabbit out of his to make this team competitive these next two years. If we don't land Diallo we have virtually no chance at an NCAA tourney this year or next

Say if he lands all of the other targets outside of Diallo?  I never knew simply landing Diallo was imperative to going to the NCAA tournament next year or in 2017. 

Again, I'm not taking up for Lavin, but some of these posts doesn't particularly make sense.  Like someone stated (I believe it was boo), I wish the administration decide what they're going to do very shortly.  Preferably, within another week.

If he lands all targets but Diallo we still dont make the tournament the next two years. People overestimate how good freshmen and sophomores are in college basketball. Unless the player is a top 10-15 recruit he will be nothing more than a role player his freshman season and will be between role player and go to guy in his sophomore season. In years 2 and 3 of the Lavin era we weren't very good because all the players were freshmen and sophomores despite them being 4 and 5 star recruits. I do not fault Lavin for that at all because I realize how hard it is for freshmen to come in and be very good college players right away.

Unless you are the Kentuckys and Dukes of the world you can't build a program by reloading with top freshmen every year. Please provide me with a realistic SJU roster that doesn't include Diallo that is going to make the tournament within the next 2 years

I'm not overestimating anything.  Obviously, you're overestimating freshmen by saying, if he doesn't land Diallo, then he emphatically stating he won't make the tournament for two years.  I've seen top 10-15 talent who still needs seasoning.  Do I have to name some of those past player's for you? 

Okay....  You want a roster that could be NCAA tournament-worthy without Diallo....  Here 'ya go:

Obekpa
Jordan
Sampson
Papagiannis
Mussini
LoVett
ADR
Ali
Benji Bell (JUCO from NW Florida)
Jalen Jackson (same school as Bell)
Doughty
Barnes Thompkins

 

I'd sign up for that right now. If Lavin had that secured he would have the extension

Quote from: mjdinkins on March 24, 2015, 09:18:16 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 09:08:35 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on March 24, 2015, 08:27:26 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2015, 04:36:11 PM

Last year and this year were similar. I enjoyed both seasons. Was getting our ass kicked at mid night last Friday that awesome for some of you? I don't care who the coach is. I just want to enjoy a basketball season. Getting a new coach that takes 3 years just to get where we have been these last 5 years doesn't make any sense to me.

It's a major stretch to say that Lavin will pull the recruiting rabbit out of his to make this team competitive these next two years. If we don't land Diallo we have virtually no chance at an NCAA tourney this year or next

Say if he lands all of the other targets outside of Diallo?  I never knew simply landing Diallo was imperative to going to the NCAA tournament next year or in 2017. 

Again, I'm not taking up for Lavin, but some of these posts doesn't particularly make sense.  Like someone stated (I believe it was boo), I wish the administration decide what they're going to do very shortly.  Preferably, within another week.

If he lands all targets but Diallo we still dont make the tournament the next two years. People overestimate how good freshmen and sophomores are in college basketball. Unless the player is a top 10-15 recruit he will be nothing more than a role player his freshman season and will be between role player and go to guy in his sophomore season. In years 2 and 3 of the Lavin era we weren't very good because all the players were freshmen and sophomores despite them being 4 and 5 star recruits. I do not fault Lavin for that at all because I realize how hard it is for freshmen to come in and be very good college players right away.

Unless you are the Kentuckys and Dukes of the world you can't build a program by reloading with top freshmen every year. Please provide me with a realistic SJU roster that doesn't include Diallo that is going to make the tournament within the next 2 years

I'm not overestimating anything.  Obviously, you're overestimating freshmen by saying, if he doesn't land Diallo, then he emphatically stating he won't make the tournament for two years.  I've seen top 10-15 talent who still needs seasoning.  Do I have to name some of those past player's for you? 

Okay....  You want a roster that could be NCAA tournament-worthy without Diallo....  Here 'ya go:

Obekpa
Jordan
Sampson
Papagiannis
Mussini
LoVett
ADR
Ali
Benji Bell (JUCO from NW Florida)
Jalen Jackson (same school as Bell)
Doughty
Barnes Thompkins

 

I'd sign up for that right now. If Lavin had that secured he would have the extension

In your opinion, do you think that is an NCAA tournament roster, Chudster?

If Jordan comes back I think we could be good. Definitely have a chance for the tournament.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on March 24, 2015, 09:37:48 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on March 24, 2015, 09:18:16 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 09:08:35 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on March 24, 2015, 08:27:26 PM

Quote from: goredmen on March 24, 2015, 07:49:24 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on March 24, 2015, 04:36:11 PM

Last year and this year were similar. I enjoyed both seasons. Was getting our ass kicked at mid night last Friday that awesome for some of you? I don't care who the coach is. I just want to enjoy a basketball season. Getting a new coach that takes 3 years just to get where we have been these last 5 years doesn't make any sense to me.

It's a major stretch to say that Lavin will pull the recruiting rabbit out of his to make this team competitive these next two years. If we don't land Diallo we have virtually no chance at an NCAA tourney this year or next

Say if he lands all of the other targets outside of Diallo?  I never knew simply landing Diallo was imperative to going to the NCAA tournament next year or in 2017. 

Again, I'm not taking up for Lavin, but some of these posts doesn't particularly make sense.  Like someone stated (I believe it was boo), I wish the administration decide what they're going to do very shortly.  Preferably, within another week.

If he lands all targets but Diallo we still dont make the tournament the next two years. People overestimate how good freshmen and sophomores are in college basketball. Unless the player is a top 10-15 recruit he will be nothing more than a role player his freshman season and will be between role player and go to guy in his sophomore season. In years 2 and 3 of the Lavin era we weren't very good because all the players were freshmen and sophomores despite them being 4 and 5 star recruits. I do not fault Lavin for that at all because I realize how hard it is for freshmen to come in and be very good college players right away.

Unless you are the Kentuckys and Dukes of the world you can't build a program by reloading with top freshmen every year. Please provide me with a realistic SJU roster that doesn't include Diallo that is going to make the tournament within the next 2 years

I'm not overestimating anything.  Obviously, you're overestimating freshmen by saying, if he doesn't land Diallo, then he emphatically stating he won't make the tournament for two years.  I've seen top 10-15 talent who still needs seasoning.  Do I have to name some of those past player's for you? 

Okay....  You want a roster that could be NCAA tournament-worthy without Diallo....  Here 'ya go:

Obekpa
Jordan
Sampson
Papagiannis
Mussini
LoVett
ADR
Ali
Benji Bell (JUCO from NW Florida)
Jalen Jackson (same school as Bell)
Doughty
Barnes Thompkins

 

I'd sign up for that right now. If Lavin had that secured he would have the extension

In your opinion, do you think that is an NCAA tournament roster, Chudster?

Hard to say. I'm bullish on Mussini who would be an interesting fit next to sheed and sampson. Start obekpa at PF next to a 7' skilled center and I think we have something.

Quote from: redmen4life on March 24, 2015, 02:25:41 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2015, 02:22:46 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 02:19:24 PM

So you guys are fine with once a 4 year Ncaa appearance?

You're going to need a bigger hook with all the bait you've been putting out lately.

What if St. John's made tournament last year? If they made 3 in 5 would we even be talking about this at all?

you think he's done Dave?

Don't know. As I've said previously if it were my choice I'd bring him back without question. Starting fresh would be major set back.

Agree with Dave. In 2010 when SJU was willing to spend $$$ on a coach, Donovan and Hewitt both declined and some thought we would be lucky to get Greenberg or Pecora. While Lavin is far from perfect he has brought in an upgrade in talent. Can't deny he is a "politician" but all of these coaches are. He could have signed Whitehead but wouldn't sell the program to do so. DLO said he "saved my life". I think those things count. By all accounts he did a great job recruiting Briscoe who even told some SJU players that he was coming here a day before he announces for Kentucky. Maybe Lavin trusted the Briscoe family too much but he should have had a back-up plan. Reports on Sampson is that he may be equal or better than DLO. Lavin recruited him for two+ years, doubtful he's coming here for a new coach. The other two commits sound like they can contribute for four years. Some bad recruiting choices by Lavin and some typical SJU "curse stuff" (cancer, DJ's broken leg, Chris this year, and a whole school involved in "phony transcripts" - Thomas) all contributed to the disappointing ending of the last few seasons. I would still go with Lavin over a guy who was ready to jump to South Florida, lied about his diploma and had to go back to a job that he resigned from. I know that "money talks" but the thought that Repole may get to pick the coach because of $$$ just bothers me.

@NYPost_Brazille: St. John's remains silent as Steve Lavin rumors fly. http://t.co/ySfVjEiGLE #sjubb

Quote in the article: “Either we want to invest five more years in him or start over. It’s pretty simple.”

That would be simple if St. John's gets only a 1 year buyout the length of the extension. If it costs too much, it screws up future decisions if needed

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 03:08:40 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on March 24, 2015, 03:06:05 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 03:00:27 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2015, 02:22:46 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 02:19:24 PM

So you guys are fine with once a 4 year Ncaa appearance?

You're going to need a bigger hook with all the bait you've been putting out lately.

What if St. John's made tournament last year? If they made 3 in 5 would we even be talking about this at all?

But we didn't.

  All this is, is what ifs

You like to speak in certainties... As if the new coach will certainly do better than Lavin!!!  Nice crystal ball

You're doing the same in thinking a new coach couldn't do better

It doesn't work that way guy.  The other is a known quantity.

Sure it does Fordham.  Even if I grant you that Lavin is a slightly above average coach, you don't know that Hurley or Pitino Jr or Mullin wouldn't be better.
You just know what Lavin is.   

But no one should act like they know coach x or coach y will do better here.  Too many unknowns and variables.

Also, just as an aside, I don't see what the rush is.  Sure, the school shouldn't wait 3 months, I understand that.  But it makes next to no difference whether they have another meeting next week and announce a decision 3 weeks from now, or if they do it tomorrow.   As long as a decision is made this spring, things will be fine.   Rushing just leads to poor decisions.

Quote from: fordham96 on March 24, 2015, 03:19:21 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 03:08:40 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on March 24, 2015, 03:06:05 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 03:00:27 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2015, 02:22:46 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 02:19:24 PM

So you guys are fine with once a 4 year Ncaa appearance?

You're going to need a bigger hook with all the bait you've been putting out lately.

What if St. John's made tournament last year? If they made 3 in 5 would we even be talking about this at all?

But we didn't.

  All this is, is what ifs

You like to speak in certainties... As if the new coach will certainly do better than Lavin!!!  Nice crystal ball

You're doing the same in thinking a new coach couldn't do better

It doesn't work that way guy.  The other is a known quantity.

Sure it does Fordham.  Even if I grant you that Lavin is a slightly above average coach, you don't know that Hurley or Pitino Jr or Mullin wouldn't be better.
You just know what Lavin is.   

But no one should act like they know coach x or coach y will do better here.  Too many unknowns and variables.

Also, just as an aside, I don't see what the rush is.  Sure, the school shouldn't wait 3 months, I understand that.  But it makes next to no difference whether they have another meeting next week and announce a decision 3 weeks from now, or if they do it tomorrow.   As long as a decision is made this spring, things will be fine.   Rushing just leads to poor decisions.

Desco you lose me with this one. Wait 3 weeks and miss out on many candidates being cobbled up by other schools. Decision should have been made and if it is too extend just say we are in contract negotiations with Lavin.

Quote from: desco80 on March 24, 2015, 10:44:01 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on March 24, 2015, 03:19:21 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 03:08:40 PM

Quote from: Pete88 on March 24, 2015, 03:06:05 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 03:00:27 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2015, 02:22:46 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 02:19:24 PM

So you guys are fine with once a 4 year Ncaa appearance?

You're going to need a bigger hook with all the bait you've been putting out lately.

What if St. John's made tournament last year? If they made 3 in 5 would we even be talking about this at all?

But we didn't.

  All this is, is what ifs

You like to speak in certainties... As if the new coach will certainly do better than Lavin!!!  Nice crystal ball

You're doing the same in thinking a new coach couldn't do better

It doesn't work that way guy.  The other is a known quantity.

Sure it does Fordham.  Even if I grant you that Lavin is a slightly above average coach, you don't know that Hurley or Pitino Jr or Mullin wouldn't be better.
You just know what Lavin is.   

But no one should act like they know coach x or coach y will do better here.  Too many unknowns and variables.

Also, just as an aside, I don't see what the rush is.  Sure, the school shouldn't wait 3 months, I understand that.  But it makes next to no difference whether they have another meeting next week and announce a decision 3 weeks from now, or if they do it tomorrow.   As long as a decision is made this spring, things will be fine.   Rushing just leads to poor decisions.

Desco you lose me with this one. Wait 3 weeks and miss out on many candidates being cobbled up by other schools. Decision should have been made and if it is too extend just say we are in contract negotiations with Lavin.

Agree

If u could have lavin....Diallo.....Jordan and CO back...Sampson...a legit point quard recruit and a legit JUCO big man, would you still want Coach Lavin dumped?

Quote from: redmen4life on March 24, 2015, 02:25:41 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 24, 2015, 02:22:46 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 24, 2015, 02:19:24 PM

So you guys are fine with once a 4 year Ncaa appearance?

You're going to need a bigger hook with all the bait you've been putting out lately.

What if St. John's made tournament last year? If they made 3 in 5 would we even be talking about this at all?

you think he's done Dave?

Don't know. As I've said previously if it were my choice I'd bring him back without question. Starting fresh would be major set back.

you had said couple of weeks ago, less money more years.  will if Albano is to be believed, it appears that's what Lavin has proposed.

If u could have lavin....Diallo.....Jordan and CO back...Sampson...a legit point quard recruit and a legit JUCO big man, would you still want Coach Lavin dumped?

How can anyone answer that when you're still missing two names there.

Oh and Moose would be back as a regular poster .....and ?

Oh and Moose would be back as a regular poster .....and ?

Huh?

Steve is here for the long term fellas.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2015-03-25/steve-lavin-fired-coaching-st-johns-contract-red-storm-ncaa-tournament?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR17nyHLr9k

Steve is here for the long term fellas.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2015-03-25/steve-lavin-fired-coaching-st-johns-contract-red-storm-ncaa-tournament?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR17nyHLr9k

Steve is here for the long term fellas.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2015-03-25/steve-lavin-fired-coaching-st-johns-contract-red-storm-ncaa-tournament?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR17nyHLr9k

There haven't been any contract negotiations yet.   So that article is just false.   
Could there be talks beginning an hour from now?  Or starting next week?  Sure.
But nobody has talked to him about an extension Quanman.     So let's stop the BS

That is simply Lavin's agent firing back at Repole and other anonymous "sources close to the program" who have been feeding leaks to Zags and Zach.