Program expectations + reality

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

Quote from: Poison on March 22, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

This program has been here for 108 years, and D'Angelo Harrison is our 3rd all time leader scorer, passing the biggest recruit in the history of St.John's and you think Brandon Sampson will come in here and be better than him? Harrison didn't his career the way we had hoped, but this is a team game, and without his offense this team was dead almost all of the time.

But hey, that doesn't make what you're claiming impossible. Have you seen Brandon Sampson play? He'd need to be one of the top freshman in the nation to top Harrison. I'll believe it when I see it.

As far as Phil Greene, fine. That's entirely possible. He was no great shakes his first two years here, and he wasn't expected to be either.

What this comes down to is the rest of the class that Lavin can assemble, and I don't have faith that he can build what is basically an entire team in one Spring. One or two players, ok. But 7?

Quote from: Poison on March 22, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

I love dee but I agree completely.  Dee is kinda like monta Ellis in the NBA. Can amass really good stats and scoring numbers but as a number one can't carry a team to big wins...and at least for first few years doesn't make teammates better.  There's a reason when dee was hurt or not playing well but Dom was Dom was able to carry us to some big wins - because dom affected all aspects of the game and made his teammates better and hungrier.  Don't think dee had the same affect.

So considering I've said that and considering what I've heard from some about Sampson, I could see Sampson being a better version of see. 

Poison you kill Felipe all the time but isn't he our fourth or fifth leading scorer? He took us to as many ncaa games as dee.  And for the record Felipe was better than dee is...

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 23, 2015, 07:11:41 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 22, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

This program has been here for 108 years, and D'Angelo Harrison is our 3rd all time leader scorer, passing the biggest recruit in the history of St.John's and you think Brandon Sampson will come in here and be better than him? Harrison didn't his career the way we had hoped, but this is a team game, and without his offense this team was dead almost all of the time.

But hey, that doesn't make what you're claiming impossible. Have you seen Brandon Sampson play? He'd need to be one of the top freshman in the nation to top Harrison. I'll believe it when I see it.

As far as Phil Greene, fine. That's entirely possible. He was no great shakes his first two years here, and he wasn't expected to be either.

What this comes down to is the rest of the class that Lavin can assemble, and I don't have faith that he can build what is basically an entire team in one Spring. One or two players, ok. But 7?

Dlo may be the thied leading scorer in program history but anyone who thinks he was a top 3 player in program history is nuts (not saying you or anyone else does).Circumstances play a role, ie. starting for 4 years. Dlo averaged 16 pts as a frosh and shot on the thirties in fg%. I think Sampson is capable of duplicating those numbers.

Loved d'lo. But he got his assed kicked 3 games in a row. He had a big opportunity. We lost those 3 by 70 plus. Not all his fault. But he would have gotten the credit if we would have won.

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 23, 2015, 07:11:41 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 22, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

I love dee but I agree completely.  Dee is kinda like monta Ellis in the NBA. Can amass really good stats and scoring numbers but as a number one can't carry a team to big wins...and at least for first few years doesn't make teammates better.  There's a reason when dee was hurt or not playing well but Dom was Dom was able to carry us to some big wins - because dom affected all aspects of the game and made his teammates better and hungrier.  Don't think dee had the same affect.

So considering I've said that and considering what I've heard from some about Sampson, I could see Sampson being a better version of see. 

Poison you kill Felipe all the time but isn't he our fourth or fifth leading scorer? He took us to as many ncaa games as dee.  And for the record Felipe was better than dee is...

Dee, like Felipe, early on was selfish. But when he wasn't in the game, St.John's couldn't score. We were an NCAA team two years ago, but once we lost Harrison, we were done. I think Harrison was a smarter player than Lopez, but I agree, they have plenty in common.

I don't agree that Harrison wasn't a guy who could take over a game. He was playing hurt this year, and before he got hurt, he was taking over games. He's played against Providence, and played very well. Nova, too. Where was the rest of the team when we played Nova at MSG? He's one guy, and Lavin really stacked the cards against this team by taking the year off from recruiting. Lopez may not have had a PG, but he had upperclassmen, and depth on every team. As a freshman, Harrison was basically the captain.

I'll believe Brandon Sampson is in Harrison's league when he gets here, and proves it. He'll get his chance to walk a mile in Harrison's shoes because as of now, it's the Brandon Sampson show at St.John's, and that's it.

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 23, 2015, 07:11:41 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 22, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

I love dee but I agree completely.  Dee is kinda like monta Ellis in the NBA. Can amass really good stats and scoring numbers but as a number one can't carry a team to big wins...and at least for first few years doesn't make teammates better.  There's a reason when dee was hurt or not playing well but Dom was Dom was able to carry us to some big wins - because dom affected all aspects of the game and made his teammates better and hungrier.  Don't think dee had the same affect.

So considering I've said that and considering what I've heard from some about Sampson, I could see Sampson being a better version of see. 

Poison you kill Felipe all the time but isn't he our fourth or fifth leading scorer? He took us to as many ncaa games as dee.  And for the record Felipe was better than dee is...

Kid, please do not disrespect the st johns Legend that is D'angelo Harrison by comparing him to this..

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:12545408

Quote from: Marillac on March 23, 2015, 05:17:17 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 21, 2015, 11:34:34 PM

I think a lot of discussion will be had over the next month or more about:

-Where the program is.
-Where the program should be.
-Where the program is going.

In the next 4 years what are your expectations for this program?

What is threshold you consider this team should reach annually?

X Wins
X Place
NCAA Appearance?
NIT Appearance?
1 win, 2 wins, 3 wins in tourney?

Good post.

I thought I'd be fine with just making the dance.  I was wrong.  That loss, and especially how we lost, really hurt. 

With the right coach we can be very good.  There just aren't a lot of guys that can recruit and coach. 

I think it stings more than it should "on paper", because emotionally this is what we were building towards.
This is the season that our first class of elite recruits would be seniors, and our second generation of recruits (Obekpa and RJ) would be experienced in their own right.
Couple that with the fact that we all thought that Lavin's recruiting would be phenomenal when he had time to recruit kids from 8th grade through high school, and we expected this to be the time our recruiting would really be taking off as well.   

As fans, and partly due to what coach told us, we build up 2014, 2015, 2016 to be a time when our program would be peaking. 

Great post Desco, agree.  Too far along for this.

 I will admit, school is in a tough spot.  Could see valid points for both sides of the argument.

Quote from: Poison on March 23, 2015, 07:30:25 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 23, 2015, 07:11:41 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 22, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

This program has been here for 108 years, and D'Angelo Harrison is our 3rd all time leader scorer, passing the biggest recruit in the history of St.John's and you think Brandon Sampson will come in here and be better than him? Harrison didn't his career the way we had hoped, but this is a team game, and without his offense this team was dead almost all of the time.

But hey, that doesn't make what you're claiming impossible. Have you seen Brandon Sampson play? He'd need to be one of the top freshman in the nation to top Harrison. I'll believe it when I see it.

As far as Phil Greene, fine. That's entirely possible. He was no great shakes his first two years here, and he wasn't expected to be either.

What this comes down to is the rest of the class that Lavin can assemble, and I don't have faith that he can build what is basically an entire team in one Spring. One or two players, ok. But 7?

Dlo may be the thied leading scorer in program history but anyone who thinks he was a top 3 player in program history is nuts (not saying you or anyone else does).Circumstances play a role, ie. starting for 4 years. Dlo averaged 16 pts as a frosh and shot on the thirties in fg%. I think Sampson is capable of duplicating those numbers.

No one is saying that Harrison is a top 3 St.John's player. I think he was better than Lopez, though, and I think he was smarter than Lopez, but most players were.

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 23, 2015, 07:11:41 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 22, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

This program has been here for 108 years, and D'Angelo Harrison is our 3rd all time leader scorer, passing the biggest recruit in the history of St.John's and you think Brandon Sampson will come in here and be better than him? Harrison didn't his career the way we had hoped, but this is a team game, and without his offense this team was dead almost all of the time.

But hey, that doesn't make what you're claiming impossible. Have you seen Brandon Sampson play? He'd need to be one of the top freshman in the nation to top Harrison. I'll believe it when I see it.

As far as Phil Greene, fine. That's entirely possible. He was no great shakes his first two years here, and he wasn't expected to be either.

What this comes down to is the rest of the class that Lavin can assemble, and I don't have faith that he can build what is basically an entire team in one Spring. One or two players, ok. But 7?

There is more to winning basketball games than scoring, no need to look any further than the Knicks and what Melo is doing for them. Again, rankings mean little. Harrison is the third all time scorer in our illustrious history. Just look back at our most recent players and I would say both Hardy and Hatten were "better" players. Our elite eight team had 3 players better than Harrison. Artest, Barkley, and Thorton, hence they did well. This is not a knock on Harrison in anyway because I like him, but he was not better than any of those recent players. Hatten's team was offensively challenged as well, but they was able to win a NIT championship because of Hatten, Harrison's team got smoked by Robert Morris in the first round.

This was Harrison's best year shooting the ball and he shot 41% from the field. For his career he is a sub 40% shooter.
Our best shooter/scorer, shoots 40% from the field. He is a tremendous rebounder, and he has a ton of heart. That you can't measure. But in regard to pure talent and the ability to make others around him better and carry his team? he clearly fell short.

I can't believe Harrison couldn't carry Amir Amirovicovich and Joey DeLaRosa to the Sweet sixteen. What a looser. Thank goodness Steve Lavin beat out Bowling Greene and James Madison for the services of Samir Doughy, who is on his way to lead us to the promised land.

Quote from: Poison on March 23, 2015, 07:30:25 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 23, 2015, 07:11:41 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 22, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

This program has been here for 108 years, and D'Angelo Harrison is our 3rd all time leader scorer, passing the biggest recruit in the history of St.John's and you think Brandon Sampson will come in here and be better than him? Harrison didn't his career the way we had hoped, but this is a team game, and without his offense this team was dead almost all of the time.

But hey, that doesn't make what you're claiming impossible. Have you seen Brandon Sampson play? He'd need to be one of the top freshman in the nation to top Harrison. I'll believe it when I see it.

As far as Phil Greene, fine. That's entirely possible. He was no great shakes his first two years here, and he wasn't expected to be either.

What this comes down to is the rest of the class that Lavin can assemble, and I don't have faith that he can build what is basically an entire team in one Spring. One or two players, ok. But 7?

There is more to winning basketball games than scoring, no need to look any further than the Knicks and what Melo is doing for them. Again, rankings mean little. Harrison is the third all time scorer in our illustrious history. Just look back at our most recent players and I would say both Hardy and Hatten were "better" players. Our elite eight team had 3 players better than Harrison. Artest, Barkley, and Thorton, hence they did well. This is not a knock on Harrison in anyway because I like him, but he was not better than any of those recent players. Hatten's team was offensively challenged as well, but they was able to win a NIT championship because of Hatten, Harrison's team got smoked by Robert Morris in the first round.

This was Harrison's best year shooting the ball and he shot 41% from the field. For his career he is a sub 40% shooter.
Our best shooter/scorer, shoots 40% from the field. He is a tremendous rebounder, and he has a ton of heart. That you can't measure. But in regard to pure talent and the ability to make others around him better and carry his team? he clearly fell short.

Without Harrison STJ doesn't make one post season tournament. Maybe you didn't but notice but we didn't have a lack of size, we had a lack bigs who didn't play well, hard or with a clue. Harrison had 9 rebounds against SDSU.

Why are you suddenly comparing to Hatten and Hardy? Who is doing that? You said Sampson, a senior in high school was better than him. My only point to respond to how nuts that is.

Loved d'lo. But he got his assed kicked 3 games in a row. He had a big opportunity. We lost those 3 by 70 plus. Not all his fault. But he would have gotten the credit if we would have won.

As per usual it's mostly everyone else's fault, but to blame Harrison is just crazy. Story of the last 4 years. Where the F is Christian Jones? Where is Felix Balamou? Both of those guys don't belong in the BE. They should transfer to Wagner.

We got one consistent player on this team, and we're blaming him for the last 3 games?

Poison- ur right. The last 3 games were all Lavin's fault.

I can't believe Harrison couldn't carry Amir Amirovicovich and Joey DeLaRosa to the Sweet sixteen. What a looser. Thank goodness Steve Lavin beat out Bowling Greene and James Madison for the services of Samir Doughy, who is on his way to lead us to the promised land.

How convenient you choose to pair Harrison with those two. I'm not blaming Harrison for our first round lost, that is on Obekpa and Lavin for not brining in size. But one NCAA birth in four years when Harrison played with a first round NBA draft pick and a few top 100 recruits in year one, year two he played with another NBA draft pick, plus the leading shot blocker in the Nation, add another top 100 recruit in Branch. Year 3 he plays on the same roster now with depth on the front line plus add a top 20 possible future NBA player recruit in what many considered a "watered down league". Harrison played on good teams through out his time here. Many coaches stated last year we had the most talent in the league and we still couldn't make the dance. You may say its because of our "bozo" head coach, but I believe its the players who make the plays.

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 23, 2015, 11:45:28 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 23, 2015, 07:30:25 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 23, 2015, 07:11:41 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 22, 2015, 03:46:04 PM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 22, 2015, 03:32:54 PM

The bottom line is this, although Lavin's results is not what we would like, its not bad. Plus we know he will bring in recruits. The guards in this upcoming class is better than the guards in his first class. He just needs to bring in some bigs. Do you really want to take a flyer on a coach after what this program has been through the past decade? If we are no going to bring in a proven coach, and by that I also mean recruiter, then we need to keep Lavin.

Yes, I do, and you're kidding yourself saying these new recruits are better than the guards in Lavin's first class. That first class is Lavin's greatest accomplishment at St.John's. Brandon Sampson is a top 60 recruit. Very good. The other two are not in the top 100.

Sorry I could care less about ranking. IMO...Sampson and Doughty are better than Harrison and Green IV. Harrison is a warrior, but as the "man" on the "most talented team in the BE" he lead us to 1 NCAA appearance. Look at Creighton and what they were able to do with one man, many teams have there go to guy. Harrison was good enough to score and win us some games, but he wasn't good enough to take us to the next level.

This program has been here for 108 years, and D'Angelo Harrison is our 3rd all time leader scorer, passing the biggest recruit in the history of St.John's and you think Brandon Sampson will come in here and be better than him? Harrison didn't his career the way we had hoped, but this is a team game, and without his offense this team was dead almost all of the time.

But hey, that doesn't make what you're claiming impossible. Have you seen Brandon Sampson play? He'd need to be one of the top freshman in the nation to top Harrison. I'll believe it when I see it.

As far as Phil Greene, fine. That's entirely possible. He was no great shakes his first two years here, and he wasn't expected to be either.

What this comes down to is the rest of the class that Lavin can assemble, and I don't have faith that he can build what is basically an entire team in one Spring. One or two players, ok. But 7?

There is more to winning basketball games than scoring, no need to look any further than the Knicks and what Melo is doing for them. Again, rankings mean little. Harrison is the third all time scorer in our illustrious history. Just look back at our most recent players and I would say both Hardy and Hatten were "better" players. Our elite eight team had 3 players better than Harrison. Artest, Barkley, and Thorton, hence they did well. This is not a knock on Harrison in anyway because I like him, but he was not better than any of those recent players. Hatten's team was offensively challenged as well, but they was able to win a NIT championship because of Hatten, Harrison's team got smoked by Robert Morris in the first round.

This was Harrison's best year shooting the ball and he shot 41% from the field. For his career he is a sub 40% shooter.
Our best shooter/scorer, shoots 40% from the field. He is a tremendous rebounder, and he has a ton of heart. That you can't measure. But in regard to pure talent and the ability to make others around him better and carry his team? he clearly fell short.

Without Harrison STJ doesn't make one post season tournament. Maybe you didn't but notice but we didn't have a lack of size, we had a lack bigs who didn't play well, hard or with a clue. Harrison had 9 rebounds against SDSU.

Why are you suddenly comparing to Hatten and Hardy? Who is doing that? You said Sampson, a senior in high school was better than him. My only point to respond to how nuts that is.

Yes without Harrison we would have been worse, I'm not debating that. I'm not saying Harrison wasn't a good player for us, he was. My point about comparing Harrison to Hatten and Hardy was in response to your comment about Sampson not being better than Harrison. You disagreed or felt it would be hard pressed because Harrison was our top 3 scorer in school history, that was all the rational you offered. Sampson may very well fall short on the all time scoring list when its said and done, just like Hatten and Hardy. But just like Hatten and Hardy, Sampson can very well prove to be a better player.

Quote from: Foad on March 24, 2015, 06:46:24 AM

I can't believe Harrison couldn't carry Amir Amirovicovich and Joey DeLaRosa to the Sweet sixteen. What a looser. Thank goodness Steve Lavin beat out Bowling Greene and James Madison for the services of Samir Doughy, who is on his way to lead us to the promised land.

How convenient you choose to pair Harrison with those two. I'm not blaming Harrison for our first round lost, that is on Obekpa and Lavin for not brining in size. But one NCAA birth in four years when Harrison played with a first round NBA draft pick and a few top 100 recruits in year one, year two he played with another NBA draft pick, plus the leading shot blocker in the Nation, add another top 100 recruit in Branch. Year 3 he plays on the same roster now with depth on the front line plus add a top 20 possible future NBA player recruit in what many considered a "watered down league". Harrison played on good teams through out his time here. Many coaches stated last year we had the most talent in the league and we still couldn't make the dance. You may say its because of our "bozo" head coach, but I believe its the players who make the plays.

Harkless was drafted from a team that won 13 games, I guess that means he wasn't very good either. Sampson wasn't drafted. Pointer had a good 15 games career, for the 100 games before that he was more or less awful. Phil Greene was good for three minutes in December 2014. Jamal Branch was good for three minutes fewer than Greene, he sucked. Obekpa was a one dimensional grinning imbecile. Other than Jordan the rest of them are jokes and they were coached by a clown.

Harrison was the best four year player SJU has had since Malik Sealy. If your complaint was that he wasn't as good as Ron Artest and Marcus Hatten then maybe you're right. If that's your complaint it's not much of one. He wasn't as good as Mullin and Berry either. But without him this team would've been DePaul and maybe not even that.

Phil Greene was good for three minutes in December 2014.

3-POINT FG PCT    Cl    GP    3FG    3FGA    Pct
1.    GREENE IV, Phil-SJU    SR    18    44    96    .458
2.    BARLOW, Alex-BU    SR    18    36    79    .456
3.    KREKLOW, Rick-CU    SR    17    33    73    .452
4.    ABELL, Remy-XU    JR    18    23    51    .451
5.    ARCIDIACONO, Ryan-VU    JR    18    40    90    .444
6.    SMITH-RIVERA, D.-GU    JR    17    46    108    .426
7.    GIBBS, Sterling-SHU    JR    16    47    112    .420
8.    HART, Josh-VU    SO    18    28    67    .418
9.    HILLIARD, Darrun-VU    SR    18    48    116    .414
10.    CARLINO, Matt-MU    SR    14    48    120    .400
   DUNHAM, Kellen-BU    JR    18    40    100    .400
12.    JORDAN, Rysheed-SJU    SO    17    27    69    .391
13.    HARRISON, D'Angelo-SJU    SR    18    39    100    .390
14.    JENKINS, Kris-VU    SO    18    23    59    .390
15.    TRAWICK, Jabril-GU    SR    18    20    52    .385

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 24, 2015, 10:59:37 AM

Quote from: Foad on March 24, 2015, 06:46:24 AM

I can't believe Harrison couldn't carry Amir Amirovicovich and Joey DeLaRosa to the Sweet sixteen. What a looser. Thank goodness Steve Lavin beat out Bowling Greene and James Madison for the services of Samir Doughy, who is on his way to lead us to the promised land.

How convenient you choose to pair Harrison with those two. I'm not blaming Harrison for our first round lost, that is on Obekpa and Lavin for not brining in size. But one NCAA birth in four years when Harrison played with a first round NBA draft pick and a few top 100 recruits in year one, year two he played with another NBA draft pick, plus the leading shot blocker in the Nation, add another top 100 recruit in Branch. Year 3 he plays on the same roster now with depth on the front line plus add a top 20 possible future NBA player recruit in what many considered a "watered down league". Harrison played on good teams through out his time here. Many coaches stated last year we had the most talent in the league and we still couldn't make the dance. You may say its because of our "bozo" head coach, but I believe its the players who make the plays.

Harkless was drafted from a team that won 13 games, I guess that means he wasn't very good either. Sampson wasn't drafted. Pointer had a good 15 games career, for the 100 games before that he was more or less awful. Phil Greene was good for three minutes in December 2014. Jamal Branch was good for three minutes fewer than Greene, he sucked. Obekpa was a one dimensional grinning imbecile. Other than Jordan the rest of them are jokes and they were coached by a clown.

Harrison was the best four year player SJU has had since Malik Sealy. If your complaint was that he wasn't as good as Ron Artest and Marcus Hatten then maybe you're right. If that's your complaint it's not much of one. He wasn't as good as Mullin and Berry either. But without him this team would've been DePaul and maybe not even that.

I don't know that it's as no doubt as you act like it is.

Felipe and Zendon were arguably better 4 year players and accomplished just as much.

Lavor Postell may have been better but just had better players around him so he did not have the inflated scoring stats that he would have if he was on an all freshman team like Dee was, etc.  And Lavor accomplished much much more...

Dee is one of our best 4 year players for sure, but to say he is no doubt the best since Malik Sealy...not sure I'm ready to just give him that.

Quote from: Foad on March 24, 2015, 11:17:13 AM

Quote from: SJUFAN on March 24, 2015, 10:59:37 AM

Quote from: Foad on March 24, 2015, 06:46:24 AM

I can't believe Harrison couldn't carry Amir Amirovicovich and Joey DeLaRosa to the Sweet sixteen. What a looser. Thank goodness Steve Lavin beat out Bowling Greene and James Madison for the services of Samir Doughy, who is on his way to lead us to the promised land.

How convenient you choose to pair Harrison with those two. I'm not blaming Harrison for our first round lost, that is on Obekpa and Lavin for not brining in size. But one NCAA birth in four years when Harrison played with a first round NBA draft pick and a few top 100 recruits in year one, year two he played with another NBA draft pick, plus the leading shot blocker in the Nation, add another top 100 recruit in Branch. Year 3 he plays on the same roster now with depth on the front line plus add a top 20 possible future NBA player recruit in what many considered a "watered down league". Harrison played on good teams through out his time here. Many coaches stated last year we had the most talent in the league and we still couldn't make the dance. You may say its because of our "bozo" head coach, but I believe its the players who make the plays.

Harkless was drafted from a team that won 13 games, I guess that means he wasn't very good either. Sampson wasn't drafted. Pointer had a good 15 games career, for the 100 games before that he was more or less awful. Phil Greene was good for three minutes in December 2014. Jamal Branch was good for three minutes fewer than Greene, he sucked. Obekpa was a one dimensional grinning imbecile. Other than Jordan the rest of them are jokes and they were coached by a clown.

Harrison was the best four year player SJU has had since Malik Sealy. If your complaint was that he wasn't as good as Ron Artest and Marcus Hatten then maybe you're right. If that's your complaint it's not much of one. He wasn't as good as Mullin and Berry either. But without him this team would've been DePaul and maybe not even that.

I don't know that it's as no doubt as you act like it is.

Felipe and Zendon were arguably better 4 year players and accomplished just as much.

Lavor Postell may have been better but just had better players around him so he did not have the inflated scoring stats that he would have if he was on an all freshman team like Dee was, etc.  And Lavor accomplished much much more...

Dee is one of our best 4 year players for sure, but to say he is no doubt the best since Malik Sealy...not sure I'm ready to just give him that.

Postell was a very good player, for two years. Lopez couldn't shoot and was dumb as a rock. Zendon is not a fair comparison - if Harrison was 6'10 he'd be a lottery pick - but no doubt he had a great career and is underrated because his team's were so awful. Of course this IMO and of course YMMV.  I object to posters ripping Harrison and comparing him to HS seniors, which is absurd. He was a great player and had a great career, under difficult circumstances. The worst that can be said of him is that he was the best player on a bad team.