Lamont Jones - PG - American Christian School - Aston, PA - IONA

If he really did look into Europe, and had someone help him not on a pro bono basis, it could be an eligibility issue. One that state schools are more willing to overlook, but that schools lioke sju and the hall are not

Quote from: Gumby on May 22, 2011, 08:40:18 AM

Boy, have things changed at St. John's.  A year ago we would have died to have Momo or Ryan join our team.

Both seem to be very decent players. As some one just posted, they would add to our depth.  But!

Waiting a year for either bothers  me.  I doubt Mom will get his NCAA release based on the vagueness of the reason and his transfer history.

I would rather focus on Jevon, Ricardo and Kyle for next year.  Coach has already proved he can attract players when he wants.  So if we need a player in a specific skills area, I am confident that he can recruit that player whether it be direct from high school or via JC.

Agree 100% - as I said in another post, I want Momo IF he's eligible this year.  If not, not so much.  Seems like fans on this site are thinking "down the road" with the Momo would hurt the development of the frosh guards.   But I've followed Steve Lavin for more than 20 years - he's thinking about winning NOW.  Making the Tourney NOW.  Making a run in the Tourney NOW.  Momo's experience in the lineup could mean 2 or 3 extra wins in conference, AND 2 or three extra wins in postseason.    But if he has to wait a year, then Nuri and Harrison and Dom all have 32-38 games of D-1 experience, Stith will still be here, and Jevon will be arriving as a frosh - so yes, then Momo might be redundant.   But Steve Lavin has always been a "win now" guy - and I'm guessing the Cancer scare has probably reinforced that (as did his last year at UCLA) - win now, cause there's no gauarantee there will BE a "next year"....(by the way, Steve DID try to bring in a transfer guard that 2003 season - realizing he had only the very inexperienced Ced Bozeman at the Point.  Unfortunately, UNC transfer Brian Morrison had to sit out a transfer year that season, and when Ced went down with an injury Steve had to turn to what should have been his 3rd string PG - Ryan Walcott.  Kid did his best - he was a decent backup pg, but as you all know, that team went 10-18)....

Stith is a nice 3rd string pg - and you need those on successful teams.  Usually once or twice a season they have to step up big (injuries and foul trouble, etc) - a kid like Stith has shown he can do that. But we really have NO meaaningful backcourt experience on this team.   And to win THIS year, we'll need that.    I don't understand the comments about Momo in some of the posts above "I'd feel different if he had 4 or 5 assists" - Guys, he WAS  Arizonas PG.  He 2nd on the team in minutes at 26 game.   He WAS their 2nd leading scorer.  His team DID go to the Elite 8.  His team DID win the Conference Championship.  His team DID finish ranked #9 in the country.   Even tho I'm a stats guy at heart, I have to look at the team.    This is a Sean Miller coached team.   Remember when his Xavier team went 28-7 and reached the Sweet 16 three years ago?   Dante Jackson was their leading assist guy.    He averaged 2.7 (96 in 35 games).   In 2006, leading assist guy was Stanley Burrell - he got 3.2 (105 in 32 games).   The only reasonably high assist guy Sean's every coached was when Drew Lavender TRANSFERRED IN - he got 164 assists in 34 games for Xavier - 4.8 per game and they got to the Elite 8.   BUT he transfered in after starting for Oklahoma as a Sophmore.  Where he played 28mins a game.  and averagd 9 pts and 2.9 assists.  Sound familiar?

OUTSTANDING post.  i'm with you.  this kid could really help.  i just don't see the ncaa giving out a waiver.  not for momo and not for a new york school. 

The problem is that we won't know if he gets a waiver until we take him.  Not worth the risk it seems...

The problem is that we won't know if he gets a waiver until we take him.  Not worth the risk it seems...

If newsie's right and he'll head to Europe without the waiver then I'd be in favor of taking the risk.  Also with DP Jr gone there is a little more room to play with.

Quote from: Gumby on May 22, 2011, 08:40:18 AM

Boy, have things changed at St. John's.  A year ago we would have died to have Momo or Ryan join our team.

Both seem to be very decent players. As some one just posted, they would add to our depth.  But!

Waiting a year for either bothers  me.  I doubt Mom will get his NCAA release based on the vagueness of the reason and his transfer history.

I would rather focus on Jevon, Ricardo and Kyle for next year.  Coach has already proved he can attract players when he wants.  So if we need a player in a specific skills area, I am confident that he can recruit that player whether it be direct from high school or via JC.

Agree 100% - as I said in another post, I want Momo IF he's eligible this year.  If not, not so much.  Seems like fans on this site are thinking "down the road" with the Momo would hurt the development of the frosh guards.   But I've followed Steve Lavin for more than 20 years - he's thinking about winning NOW.  Making the Tourney NOW.  Making a run in the Tourney NOW.  Momo's experience in the lineup could mean 2 or 3 extra wins in conference, AND 2 or three extra wins in postseason.    But if he has to wait a year, then Nuri and Harrison and Dom all have 32-38 games of D-1 experience, Stith will still be here, and Jevon will be arriving as a frosh - so yes, then Momo might be redundant.   But Steve Lavin has always been a "win now" guy - and I'm guessing the Cancer scare has probably reinforced that (as did his last year at UCLA) - win now, cause there's no gauarantee there will BE a "next year"....(by the way, Steve DID try to bring in a transfer guard that 2003 season - realizing he had only the very inexperienced Ced Bozeman at the Point.  Unfortunately, UNC transfer Brian Morrison had to sit out a transfer year that season, and when Ced went down with an injury Steve had to turn to what should have been his 3rd string PG - Ryan Walcott.  Kid did his best - he was a decent backup pg, but as you all know, that team went 10-18)....

Stith is a nice 3rd string pg - and you need those on successful teams.  Usually once or twice a season they have to step up big (injuries and foul trouble, etc) - a kid like Stith has shown he can do that. But we really have NO meaaningful backcourt experience on this team.   And to win THIS year, we'll need that.    I don't understand the comments about Momo in some of the posts above "I'd feel different if he had 4 or 5 assists" - Guys, he WAS  Arizonas PG.  He 2nd on the team in minutes at 26 game.   He WAS their 2nd leading scorer.  His team DID go to the Elite 8.  His team DID win the Conference Championship.  His team DID finish ranked #9 in the country.   Even tho I'm a stats guy at heart, I have to look at the team.    This is a Sean Miller coached team.   Remember when his Xavier team went 28-7 and reached the Sweet 16 three years ago?   Dante Jackson was their leading assist guy.    He averaged 2.7 (96 in 35 games).   In 2006, leading assist guy was Stanley Burrell - he got 3.2 (105 in 32 games).   The only reasonably high assist guy Sean's every coached was when Drew Lavender TRANSFERRED IN - he got 164 assists in 34 games for Xavier - 4.8 per game and they got to the Elite 8.   BUT he transfered in after starting for Oklahoma as a Sophmore.  Where he played 28mins a game.  and averagd 9 pts and 2.9 assists.  Sound familiar?

So CR- If that's the case about Miller, that can't bode too well for Josiah Turner, can it?  Is it just Miller's offense doesn't allow for a stat sheet stuffing PG or has he just never had the player on that level?

Quote from: crgreen on May 22, 2011, 11:29:21 AM

Quote from: Gumby on May 22, 2011, 08:40:18 AM

Boy, have things changed at St. John's.  A year ago we would have died to have Momo or Ryan join our team.

Both seem to be very decent players. As some one just posted, they would add to our depth.  But!

Waiting a year for either bothers  me.  I doubt Mom will get his NCAA release based on the vagueness of the reason and his transfer history.

I would rather focus on Jevon, Ricardo and Kyle for next year.  Coach has already proved he can attract players when he wants.  So if we need a player in a specific skills area, I am confident that he can recruit that player whether it be direct from high school or via JC.

Agree 100% - as I said in another post, I want Momo IF he's eligible this year.  If not, not so much.  Seems like fans on this site are thinking "down the road" with the Momo would hurt the development of the frosh guards.   But I've followed Steve Lavin for more than 20 years - he's thinking about winning NOW.  Making the Tourney NOW.  Making a run in the Tourney NOW.  Momo's experience in the lineup could mean 2 or 3 extra wins in conference, AND 2 or three extra wins in postseason.    But if he has to wait a year, then Nuri and Harrison and Dom all have 32-38 games of D-1 experience, Stith will still be here, and Jevon will be arriving as a frosh - so yes, then Momo might be redundant.   But Steve Lavin has always been a "win now" guy - and I'm guessing the Cancer scare has probably reinforced that (as did his last year at UCLA) - win now, cause there's no gauarantee there will BE a "next year"....(by the way, Steve DID try to bring in a transfer guard that 2003 season - realizing he had only the very inexperienced Ced Bozeman at the Point.  Unfortunately, UNC transfer Brian Morrison had to sit out a transfer year that season, and when Ced went down with an injury Steve had to turn to what should have been his 3rd string PG - Ryan Walcott.  Kid did his best - he was a decent backup pg, but as you all know, that team went 10-18)....

Stith is a nice 3rd string pg - and you need those on successful teams.  Usually once or twice a season they have to step up big (injuries and foul trouble, etc) - a kid like Stith has shown he can do that. But we really have NO meaaningful backcourt experience on this team.   And to win THIS year, we'll need that.    I don't understand the comments about Momo in some of the posts above "I'd feel different if he had 4 or 5 assists" - Guys, he WAS  Arizonas PG.  He 2nd on the team in minutes at 26 game.   He WAS their 2nd leading scorer.  His team DID go to the Elite 8.  His team DID win the Conference Championship.  His team DID finish ranked #9 in the country.   Even tho I'm a stats guy at heart, I have to look at the team.    This is a Sean Miller coached team.   Remember when his Xavier team went 28-7 and reached the Sweet 16 three years ago?   Dante Jackson was their leading assist guy.    He averaged 2.7 (96 in 35 games).   In 2006, leading assist guy was Stanley Burrell - he got 3.2 (105 in 32 games).   The only reasonably high assist guy Sean's every coached was when Drew Lavender TRANSFERRED IN - he got 164 assists in 34 games for Xavier - 4.8 per game and they got to the Elite 8.   BUT he transfered in after starting for Oklahoma as a Sophmore.  Where he played 28mins a game.  and averagd 9 pts and 2.9 assists.  Sound familiar?

So CR- If that's the case about Miller, that can't bode too well for Josiah Turner, can it?  Is it just Miller's offense doesn't allow for a stat sheet stuffing PG or has he just never had the player on that level?

Sean Miller does like his PGs (and wings) to attack off the dribble; and I don't think he's had a passer as talented as Turner's supposed to be. You do bring up a good question about Miller's offense for sure.

CR-Fair points and I have said he might be worth the risk if they can get the waiver but again that is a big IF.

But forget the numbers, let us not forget by most accounts he is not the most coachable kid.  You have to consider that.

CR-Fair points and I have said he might be worth the risk if they can get the waiver but again that is a big IF.

But forget the numbers, let us not forget by most accounts he is not the most coachable kid.  You have to consider that.

I'll bite. What accounts?  All I've heard is speculation from posters tying the fact that he went to numerous HS's and he hoists up a lot of shots for a PG.  Has he ever been disciplined at all or publically reprimanded for something?

Quote from: fordham96 on May 23, 2011, 03:59:56 PM

CR-Fair points and I have said he might be worth the risk if they can get the waiver but again that is a big IF.

But forget the numbers, let us not forget by most accounts he is not the most coachable kid.  You have to consider that.

I'll bite. What accounts?  All I've heard is speculation from posters tying the fact that he went to numerous HS's and he hoists up a lot of shots for a PG.  Has he ever been disciplined at all or publically reprimanded for something?

He had a number of run-ins this year with Miller.  Even Book had issues with him.  Most accounts might have been too strong a phrase but he is no boy scout.

Quote from: Moose on May 23, 2011, 07:07:57 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on May 23, 2011, 03:59:56 PM

CR-Fair points and I have said he might be worth the risk if they can get the waiver but again that is a big IF.

But forget the numbers, let us not forget by most accounts he is not the most coachable kid.  You have to consider that.

I'll bite. What accounts?  All I've heard is speculation from posters tying the fact that he went to numerous HS's and he hoists up a lot of shots for a PG.  Has he ever been disciplined at all or publically reprimanded for something?

He had a number of run-ins this year with Miller.  Even Book had issues with him.  Most accounts might have been too strong a phrase but he is no boy scout.

Wasn't aware of those issues.  Thanks.  I'd love to find out more about them.  I'm sure staff is doing its due diligence.

Lenn Robbins has another article in the Post about Momo.  This time, Robbins sites as a "hitch" to SJU recruiting Jones the NCAA rule 11.4.2, which provides that:

"a college that employs employs an individual associated with a prospective student-athlete in any athletics department non-coaching staff position can't recruit that player for two years.

It has become a controversial rule, because if St. John's had hired Hicks as an assistant coach, it could recruit Jones. Even if Hicks accepts a job at another school, the two-year clause remains in effect."

I'm confused (doesn't take much, but still).  Does this explain why Jones didn't hear from Lavin's crew soon after Momo announced his decision to transfer?  Can Lavin & Co. effectively do anything with Momo without violating this rule?

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/momo_on_move_PAZFHDMsyA5GxeTEq38qqL#ixzz1NGrFVV9r

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/momo_on_move_PAZFHDMsyA5GxeTEq38qqL

Lenn Robbins has another article in the Post about Momo.  This time, Robbins sites as a "hitch" to SJU recruiting Jones the NCAA rule 11.4.2, which provides that:

"a college that employs employs an individual associated with a prospective student-athlete in any athletics department non-coaching staff position can't recruit that player for two years.

It has become a controversial rule, because if St. John's had hired Hicks as an assistant coach, it could recruit Jones. Even if Hicks accepts a job at another school, the two-year clause remains in effect."

I'm confused (doesn't take much, but still).  Does this explain why Jones didn't hear from Lavin's crew soon after Momo announced his decision to transfer?  Can Lavin & Co. effectively do anything with Momo without violating this rule?

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/momo_on_move_PAZFHDMsyA5GxeTEq38qqL#ixzz1NGrFVV9r

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/momo_on_move_PAZFHDMsyA5GxeTEq38qqL

Did not even think of this because we always think of this rule as applying to incoming prep recruits(like jermaine Sanders and Kadeem Jack).  But apparently it impacts transfers too.

Quote from: DFF6 on May 24, 2011, 08:11:00 AM

Lenn Robbins has another article in the Post about Momo.  This time, Robbins sites as a "hitch" to SJU recruiting Jones the NCAA rule 11.4.2, which provides that:

"a college that employs employs an individual associated with a prospective student-athlete in any athletics department non-coaching staff position can't recruit that player for two years.

It has become a controversial rule, because if St. John's had hired Hicks as an assistant coach, it could recruit Jones. Even if Hicks accepts a job at another school, the two-year clause remains in effect."

I'm confused (doesn't take much, but still).  Does this explain why Jones didn't hear from Lavin's crew soon after Momo announced his decision to transfer?  Can Lavin & Co. effectively do anything with Momo without violating this rule?

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/momo_on_move_PAZFHDMsyA5GxeTEq38qqL#ixzz1NGrFVV9r

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/momo_on_move_PAZFHDMsyA5GxeTEq38qqL

Did not even think of this because we always think of this rule as applying to incoming prep recruits(like jermaine Sanders and Kadeem Jack).  But apparently it impacts transfers too.

I can't see how it impacts transfers and also how it can impact in a situation where we changed staffs.  So Lavin and Hicks weren't part of the 2009 class.  I understand how it pertains to Jack and Sanders but this one I'm not following the logic.  This has to be a first with this rule.  I don't think this was the intention of the rule.

What if he sat out?  Would that eliminate the problem?

Quote from: fordham96 on May 24, 2011, 08:36:28 AM

Quote from: DFF6 on May 24, 2011, 08:11:00 AM

Lenn Robbins has another article in the Post about Momo.  This time, Robbins sites as a "hitch" to SJU recruiting Jones the NCAA rule 11.4.2, which provides that:

"a college that employs employs an individual associated with a prospective student-athlete in any athletics department non-coaching staff position can't recruit that player for two years.

It has become a controversial rule, because if St. John's had hired Hicks as an assistant coach, it could recruit Jones. Even if Hicks accepts a job at another school, the two-year clause remains in effect."

I'm confused (doesn't take much, but still).  Does this explain why Jones didn't hear from Lavin's crew soon after Momo announced his decision to transfer?  Can Lavin & Co. effectively do anything with Momo without violating this rule?

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/momo_on_move_PAZFHDMsyA5GxeTEq38qqL#ixzz1NGrFVV9r

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/momo_on_move_PAZFHDMsyA5GxeTEq38qqL

Did not even think of this because we always think of this rule as applying to incoming prep recruits(like jermaine Sanders and Kadeem Jack).  But apparently it impacts transfers too.

I can't see how it impacts transfers and also how it can impact in a situation where we changed staffs.  So Lavin and Hicks weren't part of the 2009 class.  I understand how it pertains to Jack and Sanders but this one I'm not following the logic.  This has to be a first with this rule.  I don't think this was the intention of the rule.

What if he sat out?  Would that eliminate the problem?

I don't think it even matters since I think by 2011 the 2 year window expired.

Looks like Jones is out as an option.  The rule is when Hicks was hired.  So it is 2 years removed from 2010 not 2009 when Jones became a collegiate player.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/05/24/ncaa-rule-says-jones-cant-enroll-at-st-johns/

I can't see how it impacts transfers and also how it can impact in a situation where we changed staffs.  So Lavin and Hicks weren't part of the 2009 class.  I understand how it pertains to Jack and Sanders but this one I'm not following the logic.  This has to be a first with this rule.  I don't think this was the intention of the rule.

What if he sat out?  Would that eliminate the problem?

If St. John's really wanted him, they'd challenge this. Momo's been in school for 2 years.  Moe Hicks was involved with Momo Jones MORE than 2 years ago - didn't Momo graduate from American Christian? He wasn't a Rice Raider his senior year. I don't know if the staff is throwing that out there to make it seem that they can't bring in Momo b/c they don't want him, or if Lenn is interpreting their coldness and then using the rule to possibly justify it.

But I'd love to hear from someone in the NCAA if there would be any restriction to bringing in a player like this. There shouldn't be. I see why it applies to transfers, but again - it's been 2 years. Almost 2 since Jones graduated HS and more than 2 since he was associated with Hicks.

I call bull.

Looks like Jones is out as an option.  The rule is when Hicks was hired.  So it is 2 years removed from 2010 not 2009 when Jones became a collegiate player.
http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/05/24/ncaa-rule-says-jones-cant-enroll-at-st-johns/

Ok, addendum: I think the rule is challengeable, and if St. John's wanted him, they would try. Also love the digs that Zags gets in at Lenny and Jeff Goodman (the "blindly concurred" one).

I think you are on to something.

Anyone have a link to this rule?  Seems odd to me that Jones couldn't come here b/c Hicks coached him four years ago.

I really do believe that if the staff wanted him this rule would not apply.

Anyone have a link to this rule?  Seems odd to me that Jones couldn't come here b/c Hicks coached him four years ago.

Yeah I guess the association between player and coach has no time limit.  But the association between the coach and the school is what matters in terms of the 2 year limit.  And the clock starts when Hicks starts not when Momo enrolls at Arizona.