Lamont Jones - PG - American Christian School - Aston, PA - IONA

Quote from: mkras99 on May 24, 2011, 10:41:53 AM

Anyone have a link to this rule?  Seems odd to me that Jones couldn't come here b/c Hicks coached him four years ago.

Yeah I guess the association between player and coach has no time limit.  But the association between the coach and the school is what matters in terms of the 2 year limit.  And the clock starts when Hicks starts not when Momo enrolls at Arizona.

So because of the Momo saga, Harrow could very well have put SJU at the bottom of his short list, and suspiciously missed his scheduled visit (although I know he has been to the campus on "unofficial" visits before).  Now it looks like we can't get Jones.  If the coaching staff at SJU knew about this rule issue day one, why in the world didn't they announce it immediately so as not to chill the recruiting process with Harrow??? 

At least Jevon will be happy.

Quote from: fordham96 on May 24, 2011, 11:00:15 AM

Quote from: mkras99 on May 24, 2011, 10:41:53 AM

Anyone have a link to this rule?  Seems odd to me that Jones couldn't come here b/c Hicks coached him four years ago.

Yeah I guess the association between player and coach has no time limit.  But the association between the coach and the school is what matters in terms of the 2 year limit.  And the clock starts when Hicks starts not when Momo enrolls at Arizona.

So because of the Momo saga, Harrow could very well have put SJU at the bottom of his short list, and suspiciously missed his scheduled visit (although I know he has been to the campus on "unofficial" visits before).  Now it looks like we can't get Jones.  If the coaching staff at SJU knew about this rule issue day one, why in the world didn't they announce it immediately so as not to chill the recruiting process with Harrow??? 

At least Jevon will be happy.

I don't know if staff interpreted the rule to include MoMo.  I'm no expert but like others have pointed out its been more than 2 yrs since him and Hicks were together and he went to another college and PLAYED 2 seasons there.  Who knows.  As I have said and will continue.  As MoMo turns continues after this commercial break.

The rule apparently applies to any association while in high school or prep school and AAU.

So in other words they cannot go back to say his 6th grade CYO team so to speak.

Anyone w/a link to the rule?

Anyone w/a link to the rule?

it goes over it a little bit in the mkras.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/05/24/ncaa-rule-says-jones-cant-enroll-at-st-johns/


still think its ridiculous that the rule would be in affect even though momo hasnt been coached by mo hicks in over 3 years

Interesting.  When I brought this up about 10 pages ago we all thought it was a non starter and wouldn't apply.  Guess it wasn't as moot a point as we all thought.

Interesting.  When I brought this up about 10 pages ago we all thought it was a non starter and wouldn't apply.  Guess it wasn't as moot a point as we all thought.

Good call Yankcranker.  Personally, I just didn't think the rule's application would take so long to be made public given the people involved at SJU and the circumstances and consequences of failing to publicly acknowledge it sooner.

For some reason I can't quote people's posts - I read the Zags article, but he seems to be taking someone's word for it and hasn't read the rule itself.  Would be interesting to see what the rule actually says.

Anyone have a link to this rule?  Seems odd to me that Jones couldn't come here b/c Hicks coached him four years ago.

Per the NCAA 2010-2011 Division 1 Manual

11.4 E MPLOY MEN T OF HIG H SCHOO L, PRE PARATORY SCHOO L,
or TWO -YE AR COLLEGE COACHES , OR OTHER IN DIVIDUALS
ASSO CIATED WI TH PROS PECTIVE STUDEN T-ATHLETES
11.4.1 High School, Preparatory School or Two-Year College Coach. An institution may not employ
a high school, preparatory school or two-year college coach who remains a coach in the same sport at the high
school, preparatory school or two-year college. This provision does not preclude employment of a high school,
preparatory school or two-year college coach in a different sport. Men’s and women’s teams in the same sport are
considered different sports for purposes of this legislation. Men’s and women’s teams in the same sport are considered
different sports even if an athlete from the opposite gender is playing on a high school, preparatory school or
two-year college men’s or women’s team, provided the team is classified as a separate team (as opposed to a “mixed”
11
Personnel
55
team) by the appropriate institution or the state high school, preparatory school or two-year college governing
body. (See Bylaw 13.12.2.2 for regulations relating to the employment of high school, preparatory school or twoyear
college coaches in institutional camps or clinics.) (Revised: 1/10/91, 3/16/07, 1/16/10)
11.4.1.1 Contract for Future Employment. An institution is permitted to enter into a contractual
agreement with a high school, preparatory school or two-year college coach for an employment opportunity
that begins with the next academic year, provided the employment contract with the member institution
is not contingent upon the enrollment of a prospective student-athlete and the coach does not begin any
coaching duties (e.g., recruiting, selection of coaching staff) for the member institution while remaining associated
with the high school, preparatory school or two-year college.
11.4.2 I ndividual Associated with a Prospective Student-Athlete—Men’s Basketball. In
men’s basketball, during a two-year period before a prospective student-athlete’s anticipated enrollment and
a two-year period after the prospective student-athlete’s actual enrollment, an institution shall not employ (or
enter into a contract for future employment with) an individual associated with the prospective student-athlete
in any athletics department noncoaching staff position. (Adopted: 1/16/10; a contract signed before 10/29/09 may
be honored)

For some reason I can't quote people's posts - I read the Zags article, but he seems to be taking someone's word for it and hasn't read the rule itself.  Would be interesting to see what the rule actually says.

The word he is taking is SJU and their compliance apparently.  So they must have done some homework on this including the NCAA.

The key is not the 2 year rule the key is what defines association?

Anyone w/a link to the rule?

?

Ncaa Rules

Quote from: mkras99 on May 24, 2011, 12:13:55 PM

Anyone w/a link to the rule?

?

Ncaa Rules

Quote from: mkras99 on May 24, 2011, 12:13:55 PM

Anyone w/a link to the rule?

?

Ncaa Rules

Look up two posts ^

Or http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf

Reading the rule, looks like we're out, depending on what "associated with" means.  To add, really bad drafting on the NCAA's part as they don't give any insight into what "associated with" means - arguably, we would be out if Hicks coached MoMo 15 years ago   

Dermon Player says that St. John's is basically out because of the rule...It sounds like Momo was coming to St. John's but can't now because of the rule:


http://www.zagsblog.com/2011/05/24/player-says-jones-to-st-johns-unlikely/

Speaking of the rule, didn't Harkless have an association with the Gauchos and Hicks?

How was that handled per the rule assuming he played for them?

If you really want MoMo, then make it easy - swap Moe and Rico for a year.

Speaking of the rule, didn't Harkless have an association with the Gauchos and Hicks?

How was that handled per the rule assuming he played for them?

So says the Twitter. Hopefully Moe was nowhere near Moe and we stop talking about this before the NCAA comes in for a check. I don't think a couple of AAU games is really the spirit of the law but let's not tempt fate; the NCAA only knows to investigate some cases when people start writing about "hey, isn't this a violation?"

Quote from: fordham96 on May 24, 2011, 01:40:17 PM

Speaking of the rule, didn't Harkless have an association with the Gauchos and Hicks?

How was that handled per the rule assuming he played for them?

So says the Twitter. Hopefully Moe was nowhere near Moe and we stop talking about this before the NCAA comes in for a check. I don't think a couple of AAU games is really the spirit of the law but let's not tempt fate; the NCAA only knows to investigate some cases when people start writing about "hey, isn't this a violation?"

how...about...click...delete....

Quote from: fordham96 on May 24, 2011, 01:40:17 PM

Speaking of the rule, didn't Harkless have an association with the Gauchos and Hicks?

How was that handled per the rule assuming he played for them?

So says the Twitter. Hopefully Moe was nowhere near Moe and we stop talking about this before the NCAA comes in for a check. I don't think a couple of AAU games is really the spirit of the law but let's not tempt fate; the NCAA only knows to investigate some cases when people start writing about "hey, isn't this a violation?"

AAU is next to impossible to monitor.  At least with HS there are records and stuff.  Players change AAU teams like ppl change socks.

Quote from: fordham96 on May 24, 2011, 01:40:17 PM

Speaking of the rule, didn't Harkless have an association with the Gauchos and Hicks?

How was that handled per the rule assuming he played for them?

So says the Twitter. Hopefully Moe was nowhere near Moe and we stop talking about this before the NCAA comes in for a check. I don't think a couple of AAU games is really the spirit of the law but let's not tempt fate; the NCAA only knows to investigate some cases when people start writing about "hey, isn't this a violation?"

I am not worried about that.  SJU does their homework and works with their compliance on everything.  If there was any doubt SJU long since checked this out.

Moose has a point.  Look at Jevon, he has played with something like 5 different AAU teams this spring at some point.  What if Harkless played with the Gauchos 1 time while normally suiting up with the Panthers?  Does the NCAA rule get enforced then?