Final Grade

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boo3

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2015, 12:21:26 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2015, 12:27:50 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

See if you are grading him against post Louie coaches he is above average, no?

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2015, 12:31:47 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

See if you are grading him against post Louie coaches he is above average, no?

What grade would you give Louie? Think Lavin was around the same.

Poison

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2015, 12:31:50 PM »
Mahoney - F.  He was handed a kingdom, and he completely blew it. The players just stood there in place on offense and defense. He recruited some very good players, but couldn't land a point guard.

Fran - B. He needed a bad year to teach juniors who had the basketball IQ of freshman. The very next year, he brought in his own talented class, and just about every player on the team improved. He recruited NYC better than any coach post Looie - by far, and he found talented sleepers like Bootsy and Gray.

Jarvis - C+. He did great with Fran's players, but he was too much of a jerk to keep bringing in players local or national. His arrogance did him in.

Norm - F. He was terrible at everything, except being nice. He was great at that.

Lavin - B -. I think that's fair. Certainly had his issues as a game coach, and as a recruiter who took risks and got burned. But there were a lot of big wins at MSG and that can't ignored. If his staff recruited players who were eligible, he'd still be here. That's probably something that no one on the staff wanted to deal with, but it's the difference between him getting extended or fired.

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2015, 12:37:24 PM »
Well with all of these grades, they have to be based on expectations and where the program was at the moment. Based on that, Lavin deserves a B. He raised the level of the program. He ran a clean ship, matured players, did things the right way, got some program  esteem, got players to the draft and brought in a lot of talent. The problem for him was he raised the expectations of the program much higher than he was producing late in his stint here. He started falling way short and the team looked bare. Still, we are in a pretty good shape now as a program and a lot of it is thanks to Lavin. Mullin has a chance now to stock the roster with more to SJU recent history in terms of tournament appearances, talent, sending players to the NBA, etc. than Lavin did.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 01:05:24 PM by Save The Hero »

Foad

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2015, 12:43:05 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

See if you are grading him against post Louie coaches he is above average, no?

If you eat a hamburger, and then a shit sandwich and then raw chicken, do you give the raw chicken a C+ because the shit sandwich was an F?

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2015, 12:44:42 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

At best

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2015, 01:06:56 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

See if you are grading him against post Louie coaches he is above average, no?

If you eat a hamburger, and then a shit sandwich and then raw chicken, do you give the raw chicken a C+ because the shit sandwich was an F?

If Louie was a 5 guys burger-consistently good
Norm the shit burger
Lavin would be a frozen white castle burger. Not raw chicken and not shit. Certainly edible-B

Foad

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2015, 01:18:29 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

See if you are grading him against post Louie coaches he is above average, no?

If you eat a hamburger, and then a shit sandwich and then raw chicken, do you give the raw chicken a C+ because the shit sandwich was an F?

If Louie was a 5 guys burger-consistently good
Norm the shit burger
Lavin would be a frozen white castle burger. Not raw chicken and not shit. Certainly edible-B

It depends on your perspective. Norm performed as well as a rational observer would have expected him to perform. Lavin underperformed.

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2015, 01:21:10 PM »
"B" is right.

Considering where we were and who we are, it was a 4 1/2 year run he can be proud of.

Hollywood was successful at Ucla and was successful here.  2 for 2.  That's a trend.  Will be interesting where he lands next.

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2015, 01:25:21 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

See if you are grading him against post Louie coaches he is above average, no?

If you eat a hamburger, and then a shit sandwich and then raw chicken, do you give the raw chicken a C+ because the shit sandwich was an F?

If Louie was a 5 guys burger-consistently good
Norm the shit burger
Lavin would be a frozen white castle burger. Not raw chicken and not shit. Certainly edible-B

It depends on your perspective. Norm performed as well as a rational observer would have expected him to perform. Lavin underperformed.

How would you rate Felipe Lopez career at SJU? Using your argument he should get an F no?
But if you ranked him on how he performed against other SJU players he would probably get a B.
Lavin is the Felipe Lopez of SJU coaches IMO
Expected more but at end of the day was better than most.

Tha Kid

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2015, 01:25:34 PM »
"B" is right.

Considering where we were and who we are, it was a 4 1/2 year run he can be proud of.

Hollywood was successful at Ucla and was successful here.  2 for 2.  That's a trend.  Will be interesting where he lands next.

Wonder if SDSU might be a good fit when Steve Fisher retires.
"I drink and I know things"

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2015, 01:32:22 PM »
"B" is right.

Considering where we were and who we are, it was a 4 1/2 year run he can be proud of.

Hollywood was successful at Ucla and was successful here.  2 for 2.  That's a trend.  Will be interesting where he lands next.

Wonder if SDSU might be a good fit when Steve Fisher retires.
Dutcher is Coach in waiting but, I think Hutson gets the job

Foad

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2015, 01:35:27 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

See if you are grading him against post Louie coaches he is above average, no?

If you eat a hamburger, and then a shit sandwich and then raw chicken, do you give the raw chicken a C+ because the shit sandwich was an F?

If Louie was a 5 guys burger-consistently good
Norm the shit burger
Lavin would be a frozen white castle burger. Not raw chicken and not shit. Certainly edible-B

It depends on your perspective. Norm performed as well as a rational observer would have expected him to perform. Lavin underperformed.

How would you rate Felipe Lopez career at SJU? Using your argument he should get an F no?
But if you ranked him on how he performed against other SJU players he would probably get a B.
Lavin is the Felipe Lopez of SJU coaches IMO
Expected more but at end of the day was better than most.

I didn't say Lavin was an F. He's about a C. Because he was average.

Felipe's career was a solid B. He didn't underperform, his teams did.

redslope

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2015, 01:41:01 PM »
Best coach we have had since Louie.  Graduated players, no embarrassments, went to tournament; just did not balance the recruiting. 

Robert Morris?
Robert Morris not rated as he was not one of Louie's successors:)  One rates on the whole book not just one game.  If you want one game, We were the only non ACC team to lead Duke at halftime; were leading the by 2 with 6 minutes to play and were down by 2 with 2:30 to go--not many did that to the national champs.  like I said look at the whole book of business not a single game.

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2015, 01:45:00 PM »
Oh my God, not another former coach thread!!!

Got tired of reading people creaming their pants over whether or not Slice is coming to be an assistant coach
Got tired of people saying that Slice's hiring "is imminent" and "today or tomorrow".  I don't care if you know someone who know's someone.  What's the damn source?

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2015, 01:45:53 PM »
Best coach we have had since Louie.  Graduated players, no embarrassments, went to tournament; just did not balance the recruiting. 

Robert Morris?
Robert Morris not rated as he was not one of Louie's successors:)  One rates on the whole book not just one game.  If you want one game, We were the only non ACC team to lead Duke at halftime; were leading the by 2 with 6 minutes to play and were down by 2 with 2:30 to go--not many did that to the national champs.  like I said look at the whole book of business not a single game.

And the whole book deserves a C. Not just 1 season with his top 5 recruiting class

Tha Kid

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2015, 01:51:10 PM »
Oh my God, not another former coach thread!!!

Got tired of reading people creaming their pants over whether or not Slice is coming to be an assistant coach
Got tired of people saying that Slice's hiring "is imminent" and "today or tomorrow".  I don't care if you know someone who know's someone.  What's the damn source?

Why should they give you their source?
"I drink and I know things"

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2015, 01:53:16 PM »
Oh my God, not another former coach thread!!!

Got tired of reading people creaming their pants over whether or not Slice is coming to be an assistant coach
Got tired of people saying that Slice's hiring "is imminent" and "today or tomorrow".  I don't care if you know someone who know's someone.  What's the damn source?

Why should they give you their source?

Dude sounds frustrated

Re: Final Grade
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2015, 01:53:24 PM »
Give Lavin a C.   Average.

See if you are grading him against post Louie coaches he is above average, no?

If you eat a hamburger, and then a shit sandwich and then raw chicken, do you give the raw chicken a C+ because the shit sandwich was an F?

If Louie was a 5 guys burger-consistently good
Norm the shit burger
Lavin would be a frozen white castle burger. Not raw chicken and not shit. Certainly edible-B

It depends on your perspective. Norm performed as well as a rational observer would have expected him to perform. Lavin underperformed.

How would you rate Felipe Lopez career at SJU? Using your argument he should get an F no?
But if you ranked him on how he performed against other SJU players he would probably get a B.
Lavin is the Felipe Lopez of SJU coaches IMO
Expected more but at end of the day was better than most.

I didn't say Lavin was an F. He's about a C. Because he was average.

Felipe's career was a solid B. He didn't underperform, his teams did.

I would give Felipe a B as well, but if you are using expectations as I guideline I expected more of Felipe than I did from Lavin.
I guess everyone has there own criteria. If Lavin had followed any other SJU coach I probably would have downgraded him to a C