Tempering Expectations

3. St. John's fans should temper their expectations

"The buzz surrounding the Red Storm program has been beyond palpable since Chris Mullin was hired as head coach and that's for good reason. The St. John's staff has done an unbelievable job filling out its roster during the Spring recruiting period and Mullin's presence at his alma mater has given Red Storm fans the type of nostalgic feel that they've craved for years. But that doesn't mean this team should be expected to be finish in top half of the Big East this season or next.

St. John's is going to get players under Mullin, but people need to remember Steve Lavin also got players when he first arrived in Jamaica and it took him until his fifth year to reach the NCAA Tournament with a group that was ranked as a top-five recruiting class when they were incoming freshman. It takes time to build a program in college basketball and while Red Storm fans don't want to be patient, they're going to have to be. The roster that Mullin inherited was beyond depleted (lost five of top six scorers) when he took over in March and it's going to take two to three quality recruiting classes to get this program to the point where it can expect to be a perennial contender in the Big East."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25219492/observations-timberwolves-should-grab-kentuckys-karl-anthony-towns-with-top-pick

I had some high expectations early on,  but that was with Jordan and Obekpa on board. We might take our lumps, but we are in great hands from top to bottom. Future is bright

Over/Under set at 15 wins.    Ill lean under. 

Zero expectations for next year.   Young, inexperienced roster and a coach even less experienced.   

Over/Under set at 15 wins.    Ill lean under. 

Zero expectations for next year.   Young, inexperienced roster and a coach even less experienced.   

Quite fair, we'll see.

No excuses. Win and win often or gtfo!

Brings up an interesting question. Obviously, next year is starting over, so expectations should be low. What will be considered a success over the next 5 years?  Definitely has to be better than Lavin, I would say 3 NCAA tourney bids. Wins in the tourney are a bit of a crapshoot, but I think we have to make it to the second weekend twice.

Brings up an interesting question. Obviously, next year is starting over, so expectations should be low. What will be considered a success over the next 5 years?  Definitely has to be better than Lavin, I would say 3 NCAA tourney bids. Wins in the tourney are a bit of a crapshoot, but I think we have to make it to the second weekend twice.

unless we get a couple of studs this recruiting season, i have a hard time thinking we'll make the tourney in 16/17 season.  3rd year on, we should be a steady/consistent ncaa team. 3rd year staff should have a good consistent reputation and foundation in place. 

Brings up an interesting question. Obviously, next year is starting over, so expectations should be low. What will be considered a success over the next 5 years?  Definitely has to be better than Lavin, I would say 3 NCAA tourney bids. Wins in the tourney are a bit of a crapshoot, but I think we have to make it to the second weekend twice.

I think making the Tourney 2 of the final 3 years, with significant player improvement throughout and good recruiting classes would be seen as a success.  Even if we lose first round.  Mullin should pretty much get a pass for the first 2 years other than wanting to see players improve, good recruiting, and our team playing hard at all times.

He's leaving out one huge variable in that article. Mullin may turn out to be a very good first time HC. People thought it would take Hoiberg a long time at ISU and he never was a HC a day in his life before taking that job. He turned them into an annual top 20 team rather quickly.  Just look at Steve Kerr, another first time HC at any level. I'll bet on Mullin following these two in terms of quick success. The writer is also not making note of another important factor. Lavin can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

Has any one other than the redmen poster heard anything definitive re. CO?

The writer is also not making note of another important factor. Lavin can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

I would never call Lavin a great game coach but he isn't as bad as you are alluding too. Guy has had 9 seasons with 20+ wins in major conferences.

Quote from: Johnny23 on June 19, 2015, 02:00:54 PM

The writer is also not making note of another important factor. Lavin can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

I would never call Lavin a great game coach but he isn't as bad as you are alluding too. Guy has had 9 seasons with 20+ wins in major conferences.

20+ win seasons aren't what they used to be with the amount of games these teams play now and the season starting several weeks before Thanskgiving.

Lavin also had some of the best talent in the country while at UCLA (top 5-8 national talent every year for almost his entire tenure there). I wouldn't even call him a decent in-game coach. He looks lost on the sidelines. His personality, salesmanship and likeability are the main reasons why he continues to get looks as a college HC IMO. I think he's very good in those areas.

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on June 19, 2015, 02:31:31 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on June 19, 2015, 02:00:54 PM

The writer is also not making note of another important factor. Lavin can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

I would never call Lavin a great game coach but he isn't as bad as you are alluding too. Guy has had 9 seasons with 20+ wins in major conferences.

20+ win seasons aren't what they used to be with the amount of games these teams play now and the season starting several weeks before Thanskgiving.

Lavin also had some of the best talent in the country while at UCLA (top 5-8 national talent every year for almost his entire tenure there). I wouldn't even call him a decent in-game coach. He looks lost on the sidelines. His personality, salesmanship and likeability are the main reasons why he continues to get looks as a college HC IMO. I think he's very good in those areas.

I'm hoping Mullin has the same success Lavin has had to date.

Quote from: Johnny23 on June 19, 2015, 04:07:48 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on June 19, 2015, 02:31:31 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on June 19, 2015, 02:00:54 PM

The writer is also not making note of another important factor. Lavin can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

I would never call Lavin a great game coach but he isn't as bad as you are alluding too. Guy has had 9 seasons with 20+ wins in major conferences.

20+ win seasons aren't what they used to be with the amount of games these teams play now and the season starting several weeks before Thanskgiving.

Lavin also had some of the best talent in the country while at UCLA (top 5-8 national talent every year for almost his entire tenure there). I wouldn't even call him a decent in-game coach. He looks lost on the sidelines. His personality, salesmanship and likeability are the main reasons why he continues to get looks as a college HC IMO. I think he's very good in those areas.

I'm hoping Mullin has the same success Lavin has had to date.

Which was 2 NCAA's (0-2), and 2 NITs (1-2)? Please don't insult Mullin.
Is that all you think he's capable of?

I nice run in the NIT this year would be a good season I think. Hopefully we can be a bubble team but we would have to get Mussini and Papa G both for that to be a possibility most likely. Too many players with no experience and a brand new head coach. Has to be some growing pains.

If Sima and Lovett are eligible, and if Mussini commits, we will win more than 10 games. Marquette last year is what I think we are looking at.

Well, what's the goal? I personally think the goal should to develop the type of program that Jay Wright has at Nova. To get there, he endured 3 mediocre years, including a losing season, then went on to appear in the NCAAs 10 of the last 11 years.

If Sima and Lovett are eligible, and if Mussini commits, we will win more than 10 games. Marquette last year is what I think we are looking at.

Agree

Well, what's the goal? I personally think the goal should to develop the type of program that Jay Wright has at Nova. To get there, he endured 3 mediocre years, including a losing season, then went on to appear in the NCAAs 10 of the last 11 years.

That would be great but it's a little ambitious. Make the tournament 3 out of every 4 years. In the year we don't, stay relevant throughout the whole season. 1 of the 3 years in the dance, make the second weekend and be a real contender. Do that for a decade under Mullin and hand the keys to the right guy to elevate the program from there.

Quote from: Johnny23 on June 19, 2015, 04:07:48 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on June 19, 2015, 02:31:31 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on June 19, 2015, 02:00:54 PM

The writer is also not making note of another important factor. Lavin can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

I would never call Lavin a great game coach but he isn't as bad as you are alluding too. Guy has had 9 seasons with 20+ wins in major conferences.

20+ win seasons aren't what they used to be with the amount of games these teams play now and the season starting several weeks before Thanskgiving.

Lavin also had some of the best talent in the country while at UCLA (top 5-8 national talent every year for almost his entire tenure there). I wouldn't even call him a decent in-game coach. He looks lost on the sidelines. His personality, salesmanship and likeability are the main reasons why he continues to get looks as a college HC IMO. I think he's very good in those areas.

I'm hoping Mullin has the same success Lavin has had to date.

Your hopes aren't too lofty.