Tempering Expectations

  • 40 replies
  • 10695 views
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2015, 11:31:29 AM »
The writer is also not making note of another important factor. Lavin can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

I would never call Lavin a great game coach but he isn't as bad as you are alluding too. Guy has had 9 seasons with 20+ wins in major conferences.

20+ win seasons aren't what they used to be with the amount of games these teams play now and the season starting several weeks before Thanskgiving.

Lavin also had some of the best talent in the country while at UCLA (top 5-8 national talent every year for almost his entire tenure there). I wouldn't even call him a decent in-game coach. He looks lost on the sidelines. His personality, salesmanship and likeability are the main reasons why he continues to get looks as a college HC IMO. I think he's very good in those areas.

I'm hoping Mullin has the same success Lavin has had to date.

Which was 2 NCAA's (0-2), and 2 NITs (1-2)? Please don't insult Mullin.
Is that all you think he's capable of?

He's referring to his overall record.  That wasn't hard to figure out.  But.... 
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 11:33:26 AM by mjdinkins »

Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2015, 11:32:17 AM »
The writer is also not making note of another important factor. Lavin can't coach his way out of a paper bag.

I would never call Lavin a great game coach but he isn't as bad as you are alluding too. Guy has had 9 seasons with 20+ wins in major conferences.

20+ win seasons aren't what they used to be with the amount of games these teams play now and the season starting several weeks before Thanskgiving.

Lavin also had some of the best talent in the country while at UCLA (top 5-8 national talent every year for almost his entire tenure there). I wouldn't even call him a decent in-game coach. He looks lost on the sidelines. His personality, salesmanship and likeability are the main reasons why he continues to get looks as a college HC IMO. I think he's very good in those areas.

I'm hoping Mullin has the same success Lavin has had to date.
Your hopes aren't too lofty.

Overall record, as I mentioned above.

paultzman

  • *****
  • 16981
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2015, 01:41:33 PM »
Rothstein on Johnnies this year;

@JonRothstein: A .500 season would warrant a parade. #sjubb  https://t.co/7hennZ30qK

Wods317

  • *****
  • 1713
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2015, 02:42:36 PM »
Rothstein on Johnnies this year;

@JonRothstein: A .500 season would warrant a parade. #sjubb  https://t.co/7hennZ30qK

With our current roster I don't think that a .500 or slightly below season is too far off. Add Mussini and Rowan and we will be solid. We lack scoring and experience right now, will be a tough but fun season I think. A lot of really good young players with Lovett, Ellison, Sima, Williams and possibly Mussini and Rowan.

MCNPA

  • *****
  • 5975
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2015, 09:11:19 PM »
Depending on who we add, but I think we can potentially be decent depending.  Still need another big if possible.  Add Mussini and Rowan and we have scoring ability from all spots.  We will definitely be super young and inexperienced, but will have some international players who have some experience as well as a juco, and two senior transfers.  Durand Johnson is a starting Big East forward for most teams.  I don't think we will light the world on fire but might be better than some think because of our scoring and shooting ability.

Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2015, 10:07:23 PM »
We are going to suck so bad.   :(

The recruiting wisardry of Matt and Slice is going to be put to a major test.  Hoping the hype is legit and that these two are up to the task.  It's our only hope.   :-\

paultzman

  • *****
  • 16981
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2015, 09:33:03 AM »
We are going to suck so bad.   :(

The recruiting wisardry of Matt and Slice is going to be put to a major test.  Hoping the hype is legit and that these two are up to the task.  It's our only hope.   :-\
Judging  them over next three years, not year one seems fair.

Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2015, 12:27:58 PM »
We are going to suck so bad.   :(

The recruiting wisardry of Matt and Slice is going to be put to a major test.  Hoping the hype is legit and that these two are up to the task.  It's our only hope.   :-\
Judging  them over next three years, not year one seems fair.

At least three years.  Norm got 6 and Hollywood got 5?  They'll get that and more.  It's THE living legend for goodness sake.

Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2015, 01:30:27 PM »
We are going to suck so bad.   :(

The recruiting wisardry of Matt and Slice is going to be put to a major test.  Hoping the hype is legit and that these two are up to the task.  It's our only hope.   :-\
Judging  them over next three years, not year one seems fair.

At least three years.  Norm got 6 and Hollywood got 5?  They'll get that and more.  It's THE living legend for goodness sake.

So if after six years he's had the same success (or lack thereof) that norm freaking Roberts had we should just keep him around because he was our best player?  I understand mullin mania and everyone is still on a high but if that would be the case I'd hope the powers that be wouldn't be wearing the same blinders.   A longer termed norm Roberts would be a step back for this program right now, I hope that's obvious.   That said I don't think that'll be even remotely the case just saying it's a potentially dangerous way of thinking long term.

Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2015, 02:16:09 PM »
If the 2011-12 Dunlap-coached team had Durand Johnson and some bench depth in addition to the incoming freshmen, would that team have been .500?  I think we are looking at 15 wins with Mussini Rowan and everyone eligible and healthy.

paultzman

  • *****
  • 16981
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2015, 11:48:20 AM »
@BSnowScout: Still some roster questions for St. John's in short term, but if they can close on local 2016 prospects could be a quick re-build for Mullin

Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2015, 04:20:51 PM »
So if after six years he's had the same success (or lack thereof) that norm freaking Roberts had we should just keep him around because he was our best player?   

Yes.

Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2015, 04:44:35 PM »
So if after six years he's had the same success (or lack thereof) that norm freaking Roberts had we should just keep him around because he was our best player?   

Yes.

yikes…… I mean I like Chris Mullin but i like the program and my alma mater a lot more and i wouldnt sacrifice the latter for the former. This is a pivotal juncture for SJU hoops and a longer termed norm robert’s level of success, at his point,  would set us back decades potentially.  Hopefully it never comes to that and again, i dont expect it to.  guess i just underestimated the depth of the “MULLIN MANIA” rabbit hole. 

Marillac

  • *****
  • 11224
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2015, 10:17:10 PM »
The 2011-2012 team went 13-19 in the old Big East (and Nuri lost another at the foul line).  They played @Kentucky (national champs), @Duke, Arizona,  UCLA, @Detroitt, St. Mary's, and Texas A&M. That team only had seven guys on the roster after Nuri took off and was replaced by Garrett upon graduating high school in December.  Those guys had no depth--they couldn't even have ten scholarship guys on the court at once in practice--literally almost no experience outside of Stith, no size, no true PG, and woeful shooting.  I think that team gives us a good measuring stick for the bottom of what to expect.  Give those guys a 6'9 240 soph like AA, a pair of good shooting 5th-year grad transfers like Johnson and M'Vouika and two seniors for depth like Balamou and Jones, and I think they would have won 16-18 games and made the NIT. 

This team is clearly better.  The Big East is weaker, they have four seniors, they have more size (albeit still clearly lacking another capable center), the depth is exponentially better, and, outside of one of Lovett or Mussini, they don't HAVE to live and die by a freshman. 

As the roster stands now, I think 16 wins with an understanding that we have an amazing staff that is building for the future is a fair and reasonable expectation.  If everyone is eligible and they sign Rowan and a capable center (or AA dramatically improves), that expectation goes up to bubble team.  Ideally I'd like to see Sima play no more than 10-15 mpg and Jones no more than 5-7, but we may not have the luxury.







« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 10:24:25 PM by Marillac »

Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2015, 11:52:50 PM »
We have been tempering expectation  for most of the last 15 years. Best I can tell SJU is bring in 3****  &  3*** one of the **** Owens will have to sit out this year. We are still in play for a ***** and a****. This is in addition 2 senior transfers. Should we sign  the  5 star and the 4 star  I would expect sweet 16

LoganK

  • ****
  • 739
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2015, 07:13:54 AM »
My expectations are that we will be competitive - really won't know until they play.  The 2011 class was more heralded than this one and won 13 games.  Granted, that was a very thin team and a much younger team, but to expect a group of guys who have never played together to be one of the best 16 teams in basketball is a big reach.  We are...not Kentucky.

DFF6

  • *****
  • 1648
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2015, 08:19:57 AM »
If CM can get out of this team 18 or more wins this season, that would exceed my expectations.

hnk

  • *****
  • 1681
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2015, 08:44:40 AM »
Realistically, I think we just have a right to expect that the team competes in every game and gets better and better as the season progresses.  And that we can see real potential to be at least a bubble team the following year.

Naturally, I hope for much more.

ras

  • *****
  • 2091
Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2015, 10:52:41 AM »
If we can nab Pappa and Rowan ,and IF everybody qualifies, I think we will be better than a lot of people think.

Re: Tempering Expectations
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2015, 01:25:19 PM »
If we can nab Pappa and Rowan ,and IF everybody qualifies, I think we will be better than a lot of people think.
really?