Missing Pieces Longer term

Quote from: hnk on November 29, 2015, 04:36:56 PM

All listed at 6/1 or 6/2 .....according to Wiki.  Let's argue about this some more.  I  say if possible, all things equal, it's better to have size in basketball.

If a 6'4 guard is same as 6'2 guard talent wise the 2in isn't going to mean much.

All of St. John's guards can make plays off the bounce and are quick. I like how the team is shaping up.

Well if they are the same talent wise you take the taller of the two, but if the shorter player is more talented then you take him.

HNK- We are not gonna get a PG to commit with the 3 six footers we have. BUT we already have a 6'5 guard in Ellison who can help us bring the ball up against size and defend bigger guards.

The foundation is deep and balanced for tourney bids. If the goal here is compete in the second weekend and beyond, we could use a high level number 1 scoring option.

Hopefully Rawle recognizes he has the potential to be that singular missing piece.

Mostly agree.....but the topic is "LONGER TERM"

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

From what I saw, he was the most polished player we had in the paint.

Quote from: hnk on November 29, 2015, 04:44:09 PM

Agree. Do you have a bunch of small tees you're trying to get rid of?

Sure. Will that fit you?

he must be Joe2 if he needs small tee

Mostly agree.....but the topic is "LONGER TERM"

So what's your plan?

I don't think you can really plan out more than 3 years at a time for college basketball. Maybe even two.

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

Along those lines.

Quote from: Marillac on November 28, 2015, 03:22:07 PM

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on November 28, 2015, 02:25:42 PM

People have told me Matt A is very good at balancing a roster so I am confident in the abilities of this new staff. They have my trust.

I trust them, but the roster is very imbalanced right now and looks to get worse before it gets better.

How so?

In four years we lose Sima, Yakwe, Ellison, Holifield, Owens, and Mussini.  If Lovett qualifies, then him too.  The year before that we will lose Alibegovic, Williams, and Ahmed.  If Freduenberg is signed, we will likely lose him one of those years as well.  He is not staying four years.  Not a chance with those tools and ranked #5 in Europe for his year.

We have one ship in 2017...that's it.  Two if we miss on Alkins--who won't be here four years either.  So we will essentially have to replace this freshman class with the scholarships that are open they year before.  They will be sophomores with one junior (possibly two) and two seniors if everything works out.  The youngest team in America yet again--far younger than even this year's team that has two 5th year seniors, two regular seniors, a third year soph, and a regular soph. 

Ahmed, Freudenberg, and Alkins are all so good that you can't pass on them but at the same time adding them virtually guarantees another two-year rebuild. 

Quote from: Moose on November 28, 2015, 03:55:53 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 28, 2015, 03:22:07 PM

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on November 28, 2015, 02:25:42 PM

People have told me Matt A is very good at balancing a roster so I am confident in the abilities of this new staff. They have my trust.

I trust them, but the roster is very imbalanced right now and looks to get worse before it gets better.

How so?

In four years we lose Sima, Yakwe, Ellison, Holifield, Owens, and Mussini.  If Lovett qualifies, then him too.  The year before that we will lose Alibegovic, Williams, and Ahmed.  If Freduenberg is signed, we will likely lose him one of those years as well.  He is not staying four years.  Not a chance with those tools and ranked #5 in Europe for his year.

We have one ship in 2017...that's it.  Two if we miss on Alkins--who won't be here four years either.  So we will essentially have to replace this freshman class with the scholarships that are open they year before.  They will be sophomores with one junior (possibly two) and two seniors if everything works out.  The youngest team in America yet again--far younger than even this year's team that has two 5th year seniors, two regular seniors, a third year soph, and a regular soph. 

Ahmed, Freudenberg, and Alkins are all so good that you can't pass on them but at the same time adding them virtually guarantees another two-year rebuild. 

LoVett not be in same class as freshman this year. Technically this might as well be a redshirt year for him.

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

He's better than Darien Williams. He's better than Amar Alibegovic. And he's probably better right now than any PF we've got. Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair. Owens knows the game. He's not only able to contribute if his teammate sets him up. Ask around. He's going to play, and he's going to be an important part of the team.

People making too much of this "no big guys" thing.  We actually have plenty there.  While Sima is thin right now, he's 6'11 and likely going to be one of the best big men in the Big East over next few years.  Owens is also thin right now, but he's similar size and has a ton of skill both passing, rebounding and is really long.  Even Alibegovic has nice size and seems to be improving quite a bit.  We are not at a loss for size, and I venture to guess both Sima and Owens will gain quit a bit of muscle and be two of the better C/PF's in our league over next few.  Very impressed with both, even the little I've seen of Owens.  Sima will likely lose ROY to Ellenson but it won't diminish his credentials...

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

He's better than Darien Williams. He's better than Amar Alibegovic. And he's probably better right now than any PF we've got. Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair. Owens knows the game. He's not only able to contribute if his teammate sets him up. Ask around. He's going to play, and he's going to be an important part of the team.

I think Owens is probably a rotational big. I'd see him 5th in pecking order on team now with Sima, Jones, Yakwe, and Williams ahead.

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair.

Comparing him to an NBA SG/SF that is known as a shutdown defender isn't fair.  If he's any more than the fourth big we turn to next year than things won't be going too well.  He'll block some shots and snag some boards, but don't expect him to do score points or play 20 mpg.

Quote from: hnk on November 29, 2015, 06:24:58 PM

Mostly agree.....but the topic is "LONGER TERM"

So what's your plan?

I don't think you can really plan out more than 3 years at a time for college basketball. Maybe even two.

Under a coach like Lavin, maybe.  Plenty of programs plan 4-5 years out.  Xavier and Butler to name some in our own conference.  Remember, Xavier redshirted  Jalen Reynolds and that decision is looking pretty damn good right now. 

Some guys like Freudenberg or Ahmed are short term talents, but guys like Ponds, Yakwe, AA, and Ellison are guys you expect to have around four years.  Most stable programs only  transfers from guys who are unhappy about playing time.  Josh Fortune transfers are really not that common.  I still don't know what that kid was thinking. 

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

*Next 3 years.

Quote from: Poison on November 29, 2015, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

He's better than Darien Williams. He's better than Amar Alibegovic. And he's probably better right now than any PF we've got. Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair. Owens knows the game. He's not only able to contribute if his teammate sets him up. Ask around. He's going to play, and he's going to be an important part of the team.

I think Owens is probably a rotational big. I'd see him 5th in pecking order on team now with Sima, Jones, Yakwe, and Williams ahead.

How is Williams ahead of anyone on our team? I can understand the hesitation to make Owens our starting PF after the Red White game, but we've seen Williams, and he wasn't to keep up with Wagner and UBMC.

Quote from: Poison on November 29, 2015, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair.

Comparing him to an NBA SG/SF that is known as a shutdown defender isn't fair.  If he's any more than the fourth big we turn to next year than things won't be going too well.  He'll block some shots and snag some boards, but don't expect him to do score points or play 20 mpg.

I think he'll be better than advertised. I saw a smart big man, and it was noticeable because we've got some guys that think slow on the court like Amar, Darien and Chris. Owens is better than they are. But we'll see.

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

Mussini has improved as a scorer. Not so much as a point guard or a defender. I'm obviously happy with his improvement, however, since you brought it up, we still don't know if he's ready for the BE. Hopefully, he'll continue to improve. No offense to Trevor Ariza, but I never thought he was Magic Johnson, so IMO this comparison isn't a big deal in the least. I liked the way Owens was able to face the basket, and make smart decisions. From what I saw, he's able to play the 3, 4 or the 5.