Staff Evaluation

They also run that pretty play where Federico starts in the paint, sets a screen....and circles around a screen or two to pop open at the top of the key..... a thing of beauty.....and of late have figured out he can't play 35 minutes night after night.

Yeah, I've been wondering why we don't see that or variations of that more often. Guess they don't want it overused.

As far as defense vs. offense, I was wondering if offense is the focus because that is a little harder to learn? Defense tends to be a little bit more effort based and can catch up pretty quickly?

Overall, in Mullin I trust. I'm sure with how he and Richmond know the game they are pretty aware of the deficiencies and are picking and choosing where teaching energy is exerted.

The players need to play hard, and they need to be held accountable when they don't. The staff gets a pass for wins and losses, but if they get a pass for Johnson chucking up an off balance 3 pointer with 17 seconds left on the clock and then standing around while his man takes a wide open jumper, then what's the point in playing these games?

Early on, I thought the staff was taking it easy. As a whole, the players were lazy and lost. However, since BE play has started, they've been playing harder, and they've been playing smarter. The progress is as slow as it has ever been. The bad fortune is par for the course at St.John's - a healthy mix of what is out of our hands combined with only the people at St.John's could create, like they always do.

Brandon Tierney made the point that part of the maturation process for first year D1 players is learning how to play hard and with D1 intensity.  They have never seen this level before.  That is why you saw what you saw as far as playing "hard".  And when you start a program from scratch, it is hard to teach everything at once.  If they don't do well in one area, this might be because he was spending time in another.  These are first year players and you can't teach everything effectively all at once and you can't simulate the intensity in practice if everyone is new. DJ and Mvouika haven't played in years. What do you teach, what do you need to teach over again, how much time do you spend?  These are all unknowns.  Throw in the fact this is his first year, and I think he has done well.  I have seen improvement.  Given all the injuries and ineligibility, this is actually slightly better then I expected.  I was actually worried about 0-32 after the STAC game.

Quote from: Poison on January 20, 2016, 07:25:23 PM

The players need to play hard, and they need to be held accountable when they don't. The staff gets a pass for wins and losses, but if they get a pass for Johnson chucking up an off balance 3 pointer with 17 seconds left on the clock and then standing around while his man takes a wide open jumper, then what's the point in playing these games?

Early on, I thought the staff was taking it easy. As a whole, the players were lazy and lost. However, since BE play has started, they've been playing harder, and they've been playing smarter. The progress is as slow as it has ever been. The bad fortune is par for the course at St.John's - a healthy mix of what is out of our hands combined with only the people at St.John's could create, like they always do.

Brandon Tierney made the point that part of the maturation process for first year D1 players is learning how to play hard and with D1 intensity.  They have never seen this level before.  That is why you saw what you saw as far as playing "hard".  And when you start a program from scratch, it is hard to teach everything at once.  If they don't do well in one area, this might be because he was spending time in another.  These are first year players and you can't teach everything effectively all at once and you can't simulate the intensity in practice if everyone is new. DJ and Mvouika haven't played in years. What do you teach, what do you need to teach over again, how much time do you spend?  These are all unknowns.  Throw in the fact this is his first year, and I think he has done well.  I have seen improvement.  Given all the injuries and ineligibility, this is actually slightly better then I expected.  I was actually worried about 0-32 after the STAC game.

The only freshman who I have called out for anything is Mussini because he was leaving his man wide open so often it seemed intentional. Clearly, it wasn't. I completely understand that freshman are by and large, clueless. Ron M'vouika, Durand Johnson and Christian Jones should be leaders on this team, or any D1 team because this is not their first rodeo. Whether you play a lot of minutes or not, you're still going to practice, and if you're even paying the slightest bit of attention, it's clear how hard you have to work because you should see other guys setting that example. I find it hard to believe that at Missouri State and Pitt that wasn't something they could have picked up on.

They also run that pretty play where Federico starts in the paint, sets a screen....and circles around a screen or two to pop open at the top of the key..... a thing of beauty.....and of late have figured out he can't play 35 minutes night after night.

It's known as an elevator screen. Start at the base and go all the way up to top of floor. Warriors run it all day for Curry

https://youtu.be/iUS4vUh4M6I

Quote from: pmg911 on January 20, 2016, 11:05:26 AM

The expectations of some people are just insanely unrealistic..

I don't understand why some of you bother at times....

What do you think are realistic expectations?

A team that wins 20 games regularly, is consistently Top 3 - 4 in the league...

A fan base that doesn't act like we are or ever have ever consistently been an elite basketball program.

Like it or not, we are not on the same level as Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, NC, Louisville, Michigan State...   can we get in there every one in a while, of course and we should strive to be there but some of the people on this board act like we have a seat at that table and the truth is that we don't.

Quote from: Poison on January 20, 2016, 04:28:27 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on January 20, 2016, 11:05:26 AM

The expectations of some people are just insanely unrealistic..

I don't understand why some of you bother at times....

What do you think are realistic expectations?

A team that wins 20 games regularly, is consistently Top 3 - 4 in the league...

A fan base that doesn't act like we are or ever have ever consistently been an elite basketball program.

Like it or not, we are not on the same level as Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, NC, Louisville, Michigan State...   can we get in there every one in a while, of course and we should strive to be there but some of the people on this board act like we have a seat at that table and the truth is that we don't.

I'm on board for this. 20+ and top 3-4 in the league is a guaranteed NCAA tourney appearance annually.

Quote from: Poison on January 20, 2016, 04:28:27 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on January 20, 2016, 11:05:26 AM

The expectations of some people are just insanely unrealistic..

I don't understand why some of you bother at times....

What do you think are realistic expectations?

A team that wins 20 games regularly, is consistently Top 3 - 4 in the league...

A fan base that doesn't act like we are or ever have ever consistently been an elite basketball program.

Like it or not, we are not on the same level as Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, NC, Louisville, Michigan State...   can we get in there every one in a while, of course and we should strive to be there but some of the people on this board act like we have a seat at that table and the truth is that we don't.

Reasonable

Quote from: Poison on January 20, 2016, 04:28:27 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on January 20, 2016, 11:05:26 AM

The expectations of some people are just insanely unrealistic..

I don't understand why some of you bother at times....

What do you think are realistic expectations?

A team that wins 20 games regularly, is consistently Top 3 - 4 in the league...

A fan base that doesn't act like we are or ever have ever consistently been an elite basketball program.

Like it or not, we are not on the same level as Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, NC, Louisville, Michigan State...   can we get in there every one in a while, of course and we should strive to be there but some of the people on this board act like we have a seat at that table and the truth is that we don't.

So, basically what Lou Carnesecca achieved on a regular basis. I think most people would accept that, and consider that to be success that we can all be proud of. I was actually, however, talking about this season, in particular. Since we have "no talent", injuries and seniors with a boatload of excuses, what are reasonable expectations for this season?

Some people, are content to say that no expectations is reasonable because of the situation that Mullin inherited. My point is that if there are no expectations, then what is the point in playing games at all?

Expectations for remainder of this year should be continued improvement from the players and coaching staff. I look to see how the staff manages in-game adjustments, clock mgt, timeouts and so forth.  From a players standpoint, I Iook to see how much better they play as a unit and improved chemistry. Also I like to see their improvement at the free throw line, making the extra pass, taking quality shots, so on and so forth.

Again, I will be much more critical in my evaluation of everyone on this team next year but I do agree that there still needs to be some evaluation and expectations for this "throw away" season.

Quote from: pmg911 on January 22, 2016, 09:05:10 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 20, 2016, 04:28:27 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on January 20, 2016, 11:05:26 AM

The expectations of some people are just insanely unrealistic..

I don't understand why some of you bother at times....

What do you think are realistic expectations?

A team that wins 20 games regularly, is consistently Top 3 - 4 in the league...

A fan base that doesn't act like we are or ever have ever consistently been an elite basketball program.

Like it or not, we are not on the same level as Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, NC, Louisville, Michigan State...   can we get in there every one in a while, of course and we should strive to be there but some of the people on this board act like we have a seat at that table and the truth is that we don't.

Reasonable

+1

Quote from: pmg911 on January 22, 2016, 09:05:10 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 20, 2016, 04:28:27 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on January 20, 2016, 11:05:26 AM

The expectations of some people are just insanely unrealistic..

I don't understand why some of you bother at times....

What do you think are realistic expectations?

A team that wins 20 games regularly, is consistently Top 3 - 4 in the league...

A fan base that doesn't act like we are or ever have ever consistently been an elite basketball program.

Like it or not, we are not on the same level as Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, NC, Louisville, Michigan State...   can we get in there every one in a while, of course and we should strive to be there but some of the people on this board act like we have a seat at that table and the truth is that we don't.

So, basically what Lou Carnesecca achieved on a regular basis. I think most people would accept that, and consider that to be success that we can all be proud of. I was actually, however, talking about this season, in particular. Since we have "no talent", injuries and seniors with a boatload of excuses, what are reasonable expectations for this season?

Some people, are content to say that no expectations is reasonable because of the situation that Mullin inherited. My point is that if there are no expectations, then what is the point in playing games at all?

Step back and take a hard look at this team, they are just not that good and lack anything that resembles a real point guard. We got hurt by some injuries earlier but maybe they equated to 1 or 2 additional wins.

Maybe when the year started, there were some glimmers of surprising some people but reality has set and its not pretty, for THIS year.

Get the young players as much experience as possible and play hard - those are my expectations.

Some people, are content to say that no expectations is reasonable because of the situation that Mullin inherited. My point is that if there are no expectations, then what is the point in playing games at all?

The rational expectation in that playing the games at all will contribute to success in the future. The irrational expectation is that all that needs to happen is for the players to butch up a little bit.

Spot on with both of these posts.  If Chris restores this program to how it was during MOST of the 80s and 90s, that will be a win.  As a fan of St. John's, all you can ask for is a consistently good team, that usually wins 20 or more, usually makes the tourney, with a "dud" of a year and a "special year" (where we can make a serious run) mixed in.  Obviously the program will aspire for more, but I'll sign up for a reclamation of the Lou years.

Quote from: Poison on January 22, 2016, 10:50:39 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on January 22, 2016, 09:05:10 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 20, 2016, 04:28:27 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on January 20, 2016, 11:05:26 AM

The expectations of some people are just insanely unrealistic..

I don't understand why some of you bother at times....

What do you think are realistic expectations?

A team that wins 20 games regularly, is consistently Top 3 - 4 in the league...

A fan base that doesn't act like we are or ever have ever consistently been an elite basketball program.

Like it or not, we are not on the same level as Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, NC, Louisville, Michigan State...   can we get in there every one in a while, of course and we should strive to be there but some of the people on this board act like we have a seat at that table and the truth is that we don't.

So, basically what Lou Carnesecca achieved on a regular basis. I think most people would accept that, and consider that to be success that we can all be proud of. I was actually, however, talking about this season, in particular. Since we have "no talent", injuries and seniors with a boatload of excuses, what are reasonable expectations for this season?

Some people, are content to say that no expectations is reasonable because of the situation that Mullin inherited. My point is that if there are no expectations, then what is the point in playing games at all?

Step back and take a hard look at this team, they are just not that good and lack anything that resembles a real point guard. We got hurt by some injuries earlier but maybe they equated to 1 or 2 additional wins.

Maybe when the year started, there were some glimmers of surprising some people but reality has set and its not pretty, for THIS year.

Get the young players as much experience as possible and play hard - those are my expectations.

Expectations for remainder of this year should be continued improvement from the players and coaching staff. I look to see how the staff manages in-game adjustments, clock mgt, timeouts and so forth.  From a players standpoint, I Iook to see how much better they play as a unit and improved chemistry. Also I like to see their improvement at the free throw line, making the extra pass, taking quality shots, so on and so forth.

Again, I will be much more critical in my evaluation of everyone on this team next year but I do agree that there still needs to be some evaluation and expectations for this "throw away" season.

At this point, there are 4 active freshman and sophs who are expected to be on the roster next year. They need to be getting the most minutes. If Johnson and Mvouika are playing more than Ellison at this point, that will not provide any value for the program going forward.

Quote from: Poison on January 22, 2016, 10:50:39 AM

Some people, are content to say that no expectations is reasonable because of the situation that Mullin inherited. My point is that if there are no expectations, then what is the point in playing games at all?

The rational expectation in that playing the games at all will contribute to success in the future. The irrational expectation is that all that needs to happen is for the players to butch up a little bit.

Is it irrational to call out Johnson for avoiding contact? Or Mvouika for not moving his feet and then blaming the ref when he's correctly called for a foul?

Is it irrational to call out Johnson for avoiding contact? Or Mvouika for not moving his feet and then blaming the ref when he's correctly called for a foul?

Not particularly. Mvouika is a horrible defender. I am not as down on Johnson as you are. Yes he takes bad shots but he also dives for loose balls, rebounds, and takes the occasional charge. And it is certainly not irrational to be frustrated with losing, even taking into account who it is we root for. It is however a little irrational to expect two guys who have never shown anything as CBB players and coming off extended layoffs to suddenly become world beaters. It is a little irrational to expect a bunch of freshmen to understand completely the rigors of CBB halfway through their first season. It is a little irrational for you to expect even the great Chris Mullin to have rectified the myriad issues he inherited eight months into what I hope will be his long tenure as head coach.

Quote from: Poison on January 22, 2016, 11:42:04 AM

Is it irrational to call out Johnson for avoiding contact? Or Mvouika for not moving his feet and then blaming the ref when he's correctly called for a foul?

Not particularly. Mvouika is a horrible defender. I am not as down on Johnson as you are. Yes he takes bad shots but he also dives for loose balls, rebounds, and takes the occasional charge. And it is certainly not irrational to be frustrated with losing, even taking into account who it is we root for. It is however a little irrational to expect two guys who have never shown anything as CBB players and coming off extended layoffs to suddenly become world beaters. It is a little irrational to expect a bunch of freshmen to understand completely the rigors of CBB halfway through their first season. It is a little irrational for you to expect even the great Chris Mullin to have rectified the myriad issues he inherited eight months into what I hope will be his long tenure as head coach.

Do I call out Alibegivic? He ain't an all star, but he hustles. I'm calling out players that don't hustle. I think that's more than fair—no matter what.

Quote from: pmg911 on January 20, 2016, 11:05:26 AM

The expectations of some people are just insanely unrealistic..

I don't understand why some of you bother at times....

What do you think are realistic expectations?

Slightly better than Hollywood did.  Ncaa bids 3 out of every 5 years plus 1 Ncaa tournament win every decade or so.

And without the constant drama and nonsense that existed during the Lavin tenure .... plus maybe winning a game or so in the tourney

And without the constant drama and nonsense that existed during the Lavin tenure .... plus maybe winning a game or so in the tourney

Lavin's players had drama for a range of reasons, but if we think that we're not going to have to deal with that because Lavin is gone now, I think we're all kidding ourselves. This program has had it's share of drama for decades. From Boo Harvey to Erick Barkley, to Abe Keita, Grady Reynolds and Elijah Ingram—this is nothing new.