Staff Evaluation

On the concept of building,

First off, what are our chances of getting  any or  all of the combo of Alkins, Fraudenberg, and Thon considering just how bad the season has went so far? No one was expecting miracles, but this is really the pits, lets be honest with ourselves those are top notch recruits. I legit only seeing us beating DePaul out of whats left and even that will be tough.  Opposing coaches have a billboard of material to hit us with right now in the ever important closing aspect of recruiting.

And say we miraculously got all or some of them. Whose to say next season will be useful if the staff does not know how to use them or if they are 1 and dones no matter the outcome of the season? We are in worse recruiting position if the talent is there but we don't produce going forward. I think alot actually is riding on next season, more than what people think....

A lot is riding on next season. Expectations will be there. I don't think an NCAA tournament bid is too much to ask considering the degree of understsanding that we've been asked to have regarding the complete rebuild this year. We understand that there is no point guard now, but there had better be a capable one next year.

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on January 29, 2016, 10:04:58 PM

On the concept of building,

First off, what are our chances of getting  any or  all of the combo of Alkins, Fraudenberg, and Thon considering just how bad the season has went so far? No one was expecting miracles, but this is really the pits, lets be honest with ourselves those are top notch recruits. I legit only seeing us beating DePaul out of whats left and even that will be tough.  Opposing coaches have a billboard of material to hit us with right now in the ever important closing aspect of recruiting.

And say we miraculously got all or some of them. Whose to say next season will be useful if the staff does not know how to use them or if they are 1 and dones no matter the outcome of the season? We are in worse recruiting position if the talent is there but we don't produce going forward. I think alot actually is riding on next season, more than what people think....

A lot is riding on next season. Expectations will be there. I don't think an NCAA tournament bid is too much to ask considering the degree of understsanding that we've been asked to have regarding the complete rebuild this year. We understand that there is no point guard now, but there had better be a capable one next year.

Tourney bid is too much too ask even with Rawle and RF joining Ponds and Ahmed.

Quote from: Poison on January 29, 2016, 10:22:38 PM

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on January 29, 2016, 10:04:58 PM

On the concept of building,

First off, what are our chances of getting  any or  all of the combo of Alkins, Fraudenberg, and Thon considering just how bad the season has went so far? No one was expecting miracles, but this is really the pits, lets be honest with ourselves those are top notch recruits. I legit only seeing us beating DePaul out of whats left and even that will be tough.  Opposing coaches have a billboard of material to hit us with right now in the ever important closing aspect of recruiting.

And say we miraculously got all or some of them. Whose to say next season will be useful if the staff does not know how to use them or if they are 1 and dones no matter the outcome of the season? We are in worse recruiting position if the talent is there but we don't produce going forward. I think alot actually is riding on next season, more than what people think....

A lot is riding on next season. Expectations will be there. I don't think an NCAA tournament bid is too much to ask considering the degree of understsanding that we've been asked to have regarding the complete rebuild this year. We understand that there is no point guard now, but there had better be a capable one next year.

Tourney bid is too much too ask even with Rawle and RF joining Ponds and Ahmed.

Agreed. Will still be a very young team. Year 3 is the year to make the tourney and make that type of success consistent

Quote from: Poison on January 29, 2016, 10:22:38 PM

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on January 29, 2016, 10:04:58 PM

On the concept of building,

First off, what are our chances of getting  any or  all of the combo of Alkins, Fraudenberg, and Thon considering just how bad the season has went so far? No one was expecting miracles, but this is really the pits, lets be honest with ourselves those are top notch recruits. I legit only seeing us beating DePaul out of whats left and even that will be tough.  Opposing coaches have a billboard of material to hit us with right now in the ever important closing aspect of recruiting.

And say we miraculously got all or some of them. Whose to say next season will be useful if the staff does not know how to use them or if they are 1 and dones no matter the outcome of the season? We are in worse recruiting position if the talent is there but we don't produce going forward. I think alot actually is riding on next season, more than what people think....

A lot is riding on next season. Expectations will be there. I don't think an NCAA tournament bid is too much to ask considering the degree of understsanding that we've been asked to have regarding the complete rebuild this year. We understand that there is no point guard now, but there had better be a capable one next year.

Tourney bid is too much too ask even with Rawle and RF joining Ponds and Ahmed.

Maybe so, but it is going to be exactly what is asked for.

If Rawle wants to be one and done than why come to a program that some of you don't think is an NCAA team next year? I do think they have to be talking about being a tourney team next year to Thon and Rawle.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on January 29, 2016, 10:45:19 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 29, 2016, 10:22:38 PM

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on January 29, 2016, 10:04:58 PM

On the concept of building,

First off, what are our chances of getting  any or  all of the combo of Alkins, Fraudenberg, and Thon considering just how bad the season has went so far? No one was expecting miracles, but this is really the pits, lets be honest with ourselves those are top notch recruits. I legit only seeing us beating DePaul out of whats left and even that will be tough.  Opposing coaches have a billboard of material to hit us with right now in the ever important closing aspect of recruiting.

And say we miraculously got all or some of them. Whose to say next season will be useful if the staff does not know how to use them or if they are 1 and dones no matter the outcome of the season? We are in worse recruiting position if the talent is there but we don't produce going forward. I think alot actually is riding on next season, more than what people think....

A lot is riding on next season. Expectations will be there. I don't think an NCAA tournament bid is too much to ask considering the degree of understsanding that we've been asked to have regarding the complete rebuild this year. We understand that there is no point guard now, but there had better be a capable one next year.

Tourney bid is too much too ask even with Rawle and RF joining Ponds and Ahmed.

Maybe so, but it is going to be exactly what is asked for.

By whom? Not reasonable fans

Quote from: Gray Chudney on January 29, 2016, 10:45:19 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 29, 2016, 10:22:38 PM

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on January 29, 2016, 10:04:58 PM

On the concept of building,

First off, what are our chances of getting  any or  all of the combo of Alkins, Fraudenberg, and Thon considering just how bad the season has went so far? No one was expecting miracles, but this is really the pits, lets be honest with ourselves those are top notch recruits. I legit only seeing us beating DePaul out of whats left and even that will be tough.  Opposing coaches have a billboard of material to hit us with right now in the ever important closing aspect of recruiting.

And say we miraculously got all or some of them. Whose to say next season will be useful if the staff does not know how to use them or if they are 1 and dones no matter the outcome of the season? We are in worse recruiting position if the talent is there but we don't produce going forward. I think alot actually is riding on next season, more than what people think....

A lot is riding on next season. Expectations will be there. I don't think an NCAA tournament bid is too much to ask considering the degree of understsanding that we've been asked to have regarding the complete rebuild this year. We understand that there is no point guard now, but there had better be a capable one next year.

Tourney bid is too much too ask even with Rawle and RF joining Ponds and Ahmed.

Maybe so, but it is going to be exactly what is asked for.

For me, I will hope for good results but expect them to pass the eye test...I will want to see toughness (lacking this year) and athleticism/skill to execute Mullin's pro style resulting in heightened promise,  a fun team for fans, players and recruits and decent results - limited only by fact that we will still be heavily dependent on freshmen and sophs.

I will want to see some semblance of an offense, diving for loose balls, fighting for every rebound and a significant reduction in the # of  uncontested layups that we seem to give up.

Thon, Alkins, and Fraudenberg are 5 star close to pro ready. With those level of prospects they are expected to come in right away with little to no learning curve unlike 3 stars and 4 stars, thus their rating! If they produce no matter our record expect 1 and done like Moe. And if all 3 or a combination of them come here the team has to be knocking on the doors to an NCAA berth and splitting with Nova or other top contenders to consider the season a success etc. Middling around 500 with that talent is not enough and much should be expected considering their pedigree. It would be different if they were 3 and 4 stars like the current bunch that need a few years to develop.

 RF isn't  5 star he is 4 star. But he has a high upside, and won't be one and done ,which is good for us in the long term.

Marquette and DePaul are 8/9. We have a long way to go just to get there. A tournament team seems unlikely. I agree with section 3 from a few posts above . That is a reasonable standard.

I agree that a college team with no pt guard is a long way off from being a good team. But we are getting one next year.  A good one at that.  Plus we are getting Ahmed, Ponds, Williams, Owens, and probably Freudenberg.  They will boost us further.  Now Alkins: he would be a silver bullet.  He would make us a bubble team all by himself.  If we don't get him, we will have to wait for 2018 to make the tournament

But what some of you guys are saying about our chances with Rawle next year are ridiculous.  We're in these games this year, without any guard play. And this is college basketball.  If we get him next year we are going to be good.  What you are saying is very definitely NOT THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM!! And it is very counterproductive for the program.  I don't want people reading this thread to think that what you are saying is the conventional wisdom about our program, because it's not.   What if our recruits are reading?  They might think you are giving informed information about us.  It's ridiculous.  Do you know how good these guys are?  Do you know how good Alkins is?  Most people know if this recruiting class falls into place, it would put us over the top.  Most informed people know that. Now get Alkins AND Maker?  Forget about it.

I agree that a college team with no pt guard is a long way off from being a good team. But we are getting one next year.  A good one at that.  Plus we are getting Ahmed, Ponds, Williams, Owens, and probably Freudenberg.  They will boost us further.  Now Alkins: he would be a silver bullet.  He would make us a bubble team all by himself.  If we don't get him, we will have to wait for 2018 to make the tournament

But what some of you guys are saying about our chances with Rawle next year are ridiculous.  We're in these games this year, without any guard play. And this is college basketball.  If we get him next year we are going to be good.  What you are saying is very definitely NOT THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM!! And it is very counterproductive for the program.  I don't want people reading this thread to think that what you are saying is the conventional wisdom about our program, because it's not.   What if our recruits are reading?  They might think you are giving informed information about us.  It's ridiculous.  Do you know how good these guys are?  Do you know how good Alkins is?  Most people know if this recruiting class falls into place, it would put us over the top.  Most informed people know that. Now get Alkins AND Maker?  Forget about it.

Williams?

Thon, Alkins, and Fraudenberg are 5 star close to pro ready. With those level of prospects they are expected to come in right away with little to no learning curve unlike 3 stars and 4 stars, thus their rating! If they produce no matter our record expect 1 and done like Moe. And if all 3 or a combination of them come here the team has to be knocking on the doors to an NCAA berth and splitting with Nova or other top contenders to consider the season a success etc. Middling around 500 with that talent is not enough and much should be expected considering their pedigree. It would be different if they were 3 and 4 stars like the current bunch that need a few years to develop.

I don't think it's helpful to call out these high school kids as pro ready. Last summer, Cheik Diallo was Chris Webber, only better. Now, he's not good enough to earn more than 5 minutes a game in the Big 12. Hype doesn't help these kids. Let them come here, and let them do it quietly. If they turn out to be the rare overachieving recruit, then great, but until that time, let's not add to the pressure.

The problem is it was Diallo's camp that was proclaim him a one and done.  We just bought into the hype.  We didn't create it.

The problem is it was Diallo's camp that was proclaim him a one and done.  We just bought into the hype.  We didn't create it.

That may be a part of it. The point is that all of these kids think they're one and done, and how often are they? Stephon Marbury is the last local player to do it.

The problem is it was Diallo's camp that was proclaim him a one and done.  We just bought into the hype.  We didn't create it.

Not everyone.  From 18 months ago:

"I love this kid, but I don't understand how he is ranked in the top ten. He looks 6'8...6'9 at the absolute best. He is long and he has great coordination for a big, but this isn't the type of recruit that is usually ranked this high. It might be splitting hairs, but this is the kind of kid uusally ranked on the cusp of four and five stars around 20-30. I don't really see a sure one and done, but a lot of that will come down to what he measures in height and reach. 6'8.5 won't cut it.... Diallo needs to go somewhere he is guaranteed to play. I think it would be risky for him to go to a school like UK or Arizona."

 http://redmen.com/forum/49-2015/34714-cheick-diallo-c-kansas-commit.html?start=378

and regarding Diallo's uphill battle with playing time at Kansas:

"Kansas isn't much better Perry Ellis is starting PF and is really good. He averaged 29 mpg as a junior. The 1-3 spots are all accounted for with Mason (32 mpg), Selden (30 mpg), Devonte Graham, and the projected #15 pick in the 2016 draft, SF Sviatoslav. They also have JR 6'7 wing Brannen Greene who played 15 mpg.

 Besides Ellis, KU has 6'8 SR Jamari Traylor who played 20 mpg, 6'10 JR Landen Lucas who played 15 mpg, and 6'10 SR Hunter Mickelson at the five. They also signed the #21 recruit in the country, Bragg, a 6'9 225 PF. "
http://redmen.com/forum/49-2015/34714-cheick-diallo-c-kansas-commit.html?start=1719#180203

6 or 7 more of those babies and I'll start to find the end of the hole  I dug for myself with the Durand Johnson all-league prediction.

6 or 7 more of those babies and I'll start to find the end of the hole  I dug for myself with the Durand Johnson all-league prediction.

When did you get out of the hole you dug that entire summer you spent raving about Malik Stith.

Moe Harkless was a 1 and done. Whether he should have been is up for debate but it doesnt change he was a first round pick. Arguably, Thon and Alkins will be near his level if not there or greater next season. I understand the pressure thing but with those blue chips the most I will give them are 2 years here and the team must dominate when they are here. No excuses. Of course this is all assuming that they do come here which I am still not convinced except RF and more likely Alkins if I could choose between the 2. Still not sold on Thon coming here.

Quote from: simplyred on January 31, 2016, 11:28:50 PM

The problem is it was Diallo's camp that was proclaim him a one and done.  We just bought into the hype.  We didn't create it.

That may be a part of it. The point is that all of these kids think they're one and done, and how often are they? Stephon Marbury is the last local player to do it.

Tim Thomas, Paterson Catholic. Your point remains though, very rare that these kids ever have any type of lasting NBA career.

Quote from: Poison on January 31, 2016, 11:49:24 PM

Quote from: simplyred on January 31, 2016, 11:28:50 PM

The problem is it was Diallo's camp that was proclaim him a one and done.  We just bought into the hype.  We didn't create it.

That may be a part of it. The point is that all of these kids think they're one and done, and how often are they? Stephon Marbury is the last local player to do it.

Tim Thomas, Paterson Catholic. Your point remains though, very rare that these kids ever have any type of lasting NBA career.

Lance Stephenson.