Depaul game thread

I was going to bring up nardi. But a worse Mike nardi. And if I remember correctly  nardi was the 4th guard. I am happy if he stays. Just don't think he should.

Quote from: we are sju on February 19, 2016, 03:35:45 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 19, 2016, 03:30:30 PM

Asking him to transfer out? Sure I can see an argument for him not being a starter for us as we get better but to suggest hes not worth a spot on the roster is insane.

He reminds me of a better Mike Nardi. Sorry WSJU for the intraracial reference.   Remember how he was used at nova? There will be times when the three of the small guards are on the court together and you wont be able to tell who's playing what position.  And as marillac and I have pointed out, having three guys out there who can all dribble, pass, and shoot makes for a team that's very difficult to guard.

Not bad but Nardi had way better handle

If not so yet, I think Mussini's handle wont be a concern.

The issue is he is not strong enough or quick enough to get defenders off him. Mussini dribbles way better than Ellison but Ellison does not get harassed like Mussini does because of his size. 

Quote from: we are sju on February 19, 2016, 01:19:34 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 19, 2016, 01:05:05 PM

Quote from: we are sju on February 19, 2016, 12:49:43 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 19, 2016, 12:39:42 PM

Quote from: Poison on February 19, 2016, 12:19:08 PM

Fred Lyson was actually very good.

Fred Lyson was never "actually very good".

Agreed and Scott was a 2 / 3 not his job to make Lyson better

Fred Lyson was a career .38 3 point shooter.

Let's see how that compares to great SJU shooters of the past

Larry Wright .371
Donald Emanuel .340
Willie Shaw .337
Durand Johnson .333
Avery Patterson .327
Phil Greene .325   
Federico Mussini .323

Honestly Lyson, Sergio Luyk, Tim Doyle, Marco Bourgault, Max Hooper and now Mussini are all blending into one guy for me at this point. Lets call him Sergio Marco Lysonperini "The Great White / European hope"

If you Frankensteined those guys together there's almost a complete player there.

we could call him whitenstein for a nice jewish name to show our cultural diversity

Call me crazy, but i am not about to be jumping up in celebration that we beat lowly DePaul. I know none of us signed on for a NIT or NCAA appearance this year, but we certainly did not sign on for only 1 win against one of the perennial worst teams in America and horrible losses to mid major garbage that we paid to play. Even rebuilding teams beat that crap.

Please-the only thing I am taking from this season to help me get over the extreme disappointment is the  play of Yakwe and Sima (who certainly has great potential). Rebuilding years should not be as disgraceful as this season was.

Call me crazy, but i am not about to be jumping up in celebration that we beat lowly DePaul. I know none of us signed on for a NIT or NCAA appearance this year, but we certainly did not sign on for only 1 win against one of the perennial worst teams in America and horrible losses to mid major garbage that we paid to play. Even rebuilding teams beat that crap.

Please-the only thing I am taking from this season to help me get over the extreme disappointment is the  play of Yakwe and Sima (who certainly has great potential). Rebuilding years should not be as disgraceful as this season was.

No one wanted the permanent stain of a winless Big East season.  Other than that, I don't think anyone is celebrating.

And no team in a major college basketball conference should be left with a roster that has like a combined 4 ppg, 3 rpg, and one major recruit (Sampson) "possibly" coming. 

This wasn't a rebuilding year in the traditional sense.  When you have to recruit 9 players in March/April, that ain't rebuilding.  This is an expansion season.  Thank god the staff we have has been able to secure the #1 recruiting class in the Big East right now, and thank god they were good enough at what they do to get kids like Yawke and Sima at such a late hour in the recruiting process.

Call me crazy, but i am not about to be jumping up in celebration that we beat lowly DePaul. I know none of us signed on for a NIT or NCAA appearance this year, but we certainly did not sign on for only 1 win against one of the perennial worst teams in America and horrible losses to mid major garbage that we paid to play. Even rebuilding teams beat that crap.

Please-the only thing I am taking from this season to help me get over the extreme disappointment is the  play of Yakwe and Sima (who certainly has great potential). Rebuilding years should not be as disgraceful as this season was.

Let me add one more thing -- no one is celebrating the Depaul victory as a turning point in our program.  The elation is due to the fact that no one wanted to get a goose-egg in Big East play.  That would have generated lots of negative talk.  Winning one game is no different than winning three games IMO.  And true fans are happy for these kids, who despite their lack of talent play their tails off most nights, irrespective of how bad this season has been.  And of course we are happy for a staff that hasn't really made excuses with the hand they've been dealt, but is simply plowing forward towards building what will hopefully be a consistent, stable force.

Call me crazy, but i am not about to be jumping up in celebration that we beat lowly DePaul. I know none of us signed on for a NIT or NCAA appearance this year, but we certainly did not sign on for only 1 win against one of the perennial worst teams in America and horrible losses to mid major garbage that we paid to play. Even rebuilding teams beat that crap.

Please-the only thing I am taking from this season to help me get over the extreme disappointment is the  play of Yakwe and Sima (who certainly has great potential). Rebuilding years should not be as disgraceful as this season was.

Maybe Mussini can really hit the weights this summer and eat plenty of pasta at the fine NYC Italian restaurants. He's young , so you never know how much he can fill out or possibly grow. I don't think he should transfer. Think he can be a 3 point specialist off the bench. We will have better players so teams won't be able to smother him. W his free throw shooting, sure like him playing at the end of a close game.

I 100% buy the less is more theory with a kid like Mussini.  A guy with his skill set and body type should not be handling the ball right now for major minutes, and no doubt that impacts the rest of his game.  He will be a valuable player when we have other guys who can handle the ball handling and play making duties.

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

As far as next year goes, I think "anything but knocking on the door of a tourney birth" standard is both unrealistic and unfair.  I can tell you were a fan of the prior staff - and so was I up until what I saw was developing at the end -- but did you have the same view in 2012 when we pulled in a better class than what will likely be stepping in the floor last season?  Because we weren't close to a tourney team that season, despite having a lottery pick and tons of highly rated freshman (plus Gift and Lindsey, the latter of whom was obviously a problem).

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

Sheeed was gone no matter what. Obekpa might've been too. Doughty was deemed ineligble at VCU this year. Barnes-Thompkins has been a nonfactor at BC. Sampson barely plays at LSU. We would not have been very good.

I disagree with you that these kids haven't played hard.  But we can agree to disagree.  The talent level -- especially the upperclassmen -- pales in comparison to the teams we are playing right now.

Second, your list of projected players with Lavin coaching this year is dead wrong.  Jordan was gone -- he was ineligible or he was gone to the pros.  I know that for a fact.  Obekpa was likely gone.  Sampson may have ultimately come, but I have serious questions if he would have joined a depleted group with LSU going after him so hard.  Maybe we still get Mussini, maybe we don't.  Maybe Lovett comes, but he wasn't eligible anyway.  Being fair, I think there is a much better shot we were looking at the exact same type of season, with a worse recruiting class coming in, because Lavin & Co did a terrible job with that aspect the last 2 years.

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

Stop being objective and making sense, lol. 

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on February 19, 2016, 11:13:44 PM

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

Sheeed was gone no matter what. Obekpa might've been too. Doughty was deemed ineligble at VCU this year. Barnes-Thompkins has been a nonfactor at BC. Sampson barely plays at LSU. We would not have been very good.

I disagree with you that these kids haven't played hard.  But we can agree to disagree.  The talent level -- especially the upperclassmen -- pales in comparison to the teams we are playing right now.

Second, your list of projected players with Lavin coaching this year is dead wrong.  Jordan was gone -- he was ineligible or he was gone to the pros.  I know that for a fact.  Obekpa was likely gone.  Sampson may have ultimately come, but I have serious questions if he would have joined a depleted group with LSU going after him so hard.  Maybe we still get Mussini, maybe we don't.  Maybe Lovett comes, but he wasn't eligible anyway.  Being fair, I think there is a much better shot we were looking at the exact same type of season, with a worse recruiting class coming in, because Lavin & Co did a terrible job with that aspect the last 2 years.

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on February 19, 2016, 11:13:44 PM

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

100% agree this guy is way off base. If you like Lavin that's all good but to say the kids don't play hard and somehow Mullins second year we should be an NCAA lock after it took Lavin 4 years to get back with higher rates recruits is just absurd. This team continues to fight and talking about disciplined players and Lavin in the same sentence is a stretch for sure.

Agreed.  Let's remember that we weren't close to a tourney team when D-Lo was a sophomore.  That team had Dlo, Sampson, Pointer, Phil and Branch.

I'd be curious friendofjohnnie if you were upset that we didn't make the tournament in Year 4 -- a squad that had 2 guys who have played in the NBA (then a junior and soph), one of the best scorers in school history (also a junior), a senior who played in the d-league and is now playing overseas (Sanchez), one of the best shot blockers in the country, a top freshman PG, and I haven't even gotten to Phil, Branch, etc.  It was a joke that team wasn't in the tournament.

I'm tired of the fiction that Jordan would have been here, if only Lavin had been retained.  Jordan blew off most of the 2nd semester, no-showed his finals, and was academically ineligible.  In fact, he made such a mess of his academics that it would have taken him not only Summer school but this past Fall semester to regain eligibility. He decided to explore his "professional options" too late to declare for the NBA draft.  When he changed his mind and decided that he wanted to play another year at St. John's he had already dug too deep a hole and wasn't willing to do what would have been necessary academically.

As for the rest of your Lavin roster, no guarantee that Yakwe is here or Mussini (who has clearly stated that he wouldn't have come had Jordan not left and that playing for Mullin was an important factor in his decision.)

A respected and connected poster on this site has said that Jordan wasn't basically attending any classes by the middle of last year, was enrolled in online courses, disappeared all the time without anyone knowing, and would have been gone his first year but for Phil Greene.  But he would have returned for what was a rebuilding year?  Please.

Lavin's fall can be traced to three things (aside from the general coaching deficiencies):  1) not making the tournament with that loaded 2013-2014 squad, followed by the Robert Morris embarasment; 2) investing in guys like Obekpa and Jordan, when he should have been able to secure good players who didn't have those issues (we had really good returning players at that point, making SJU an attractive destination; and 3) instead of recruiting like he did the first 2 years, making the mistake of focusing on only a few top tier players, and then scrambling for players that are subpar or had a host of issues.

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

I dont disagree with some of what you said and I've been about as critical at some times this year as anyone but personally I'm not going to go crazy if we don't make the tourney next year and I don't expect us to either. It took Lavin 4 years with the DLO class which he should have been there by their junior year so at least for me I gotta have those same type expectations with Mullin.

We have some real good pieces as freshman I think this current year and more coming in next year so I think in 2 more years is reasonable

Agreed.  No one liked losing to Incarate Word or getting our doors blown off by Butler.  But please.  How many Lavin-led teams with quality upperclassmen got utterly destroyed, a la the Butler game this year.  Do we even need to go through all of them?  And losing to Robert Morris at home with the 2013-2014 team is just as bad as this team losing to Incarnate Word, if not worse. 

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on February 19, 2016, 11:13:44 PM

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

I dont disagree with some of what you said and I've been about as critical at some times this year as anyone but personally I'm not going to go crazy if we don't make the tourney next year and I don't expect us to either. It took Lavin 4 years with the DLO class which he should have been there by their junior year so at least for me I gotta have those same type expectations with Mullin.

We have some real good pieces as freshman I think this current year and more coming in next year so I think in 2 more years is reasonable