Depaul game thread

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

You can't be serious with this post. Sampson committed?  He only verballed.  And why did he only verbal?  Because he was waiting to see what LSU would do;  if they would start recruiting him.  That's why he never committed to us, as you said he did.  A verbal is nothing.  If he wanted to be here he would have signed in the Fall.

All teams make "fundamental mistakes at some point"  Especially teams with so many first year players, players that have not played in two years, and players who have never played together.  It's easy to be critical of a coach when they make mistakes if the team is losing.  But teams that win make mistakes too.  You can't work on everything.  But when they lose you can just point to their mistakes and say it is poor coaching.  After they lost Lovett, I was worried about 0-32.  They've actually exceeded my expectations since Lovett was ruled out.  Since that 32 point loss to STAC.

By all accounts they play hard.  So you're wrong there.  You don't like the Big East?  It's a top four RPI conference out of 32.  That's tremendous.  You don't like the schedule?  Our SOS is ranked 28th out of 351 D1 teams. That's tremendous.  So I don't really know what you are talking about with that.

As far as Rysheed is concerned, he may have made a deal with Lavin to not go to class, after he came back from Philly.  He wasn't going to class.  He could not have played no matter who the coach was.  He made the decision to leave, but when Mullin was hired, he wanted to come back but had fallen to far behind.  At least give Mullin the credit of getting him to want to come back.  Because he wouldn't have if Lav was here.

Were you serious with this post?  I hope not.  Maybe just looking for a reaction.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 19, 2016, 12:39:42 PM

Quote from: Poison on February 19, 2016, 12:19:08 PM

Fred Lyson was actually very good.

Fred Lyson was never "actually very good".

Agreed and Scott was a 2 / 3 not his job to make Lyson better

Two things, first, i didn't say Lyson was very good. I said with David Cain running the offense, he was very good. Meaning that he was ONLY very good because there was a senior PG with the ability to get him open looks. If Mussini can get open looks because Lovett can find them, then great, he'll be a nice player off the bench.

Secondly, James Scott was very talented. He was athletic, strong, and he was aggressive. However, because he was asked to run the offense, the team really suffered. It just wasn't in his skill set. It probably could have been if he didn't think that it was his job to score the ball on every single possession. There's something to be said for playing within the team concept, and frankly, I'm not interested in a great scorer if that player has no appreciation for that. The game isn't 1 on 5.

First off,  Jordan would have played he did not take finals when Lav was let go that was when he made that decision. Of course Obekpa would still have been here thats a virtual certainty, he had only 1 more year left and this is supported by a close family member who I happen to know. Yakwe was always guarantee it was Diallo that was not.  Sampson barely plays there because of stacked class etc would have had plenty of minutes here and he has alot of talent. He did not sign because the school did not hammer the extension out for Lav had nothing to do with "LSU Offering." You easily forget that he still committed to us AFTER Briscoe spurned us. So yes if Lav is coach he is here and produces.  And whose to say Adonis v Obekpa would have happened if more stability surrounding team and coach was not just let go? Both could have helped us alot this season.

And comparisons with 2012 that have been drawn are flat out wrong. That team if remained intact with eligibility and timing would have had-Lindsey, Dlo, Phil, Norvel, Moe, Jakarr, Dom, Gift , Amir. Say with a straight face that team wasnt expected to make tourney? #3 in America why do you think our crossover SEC game was Kentucky? Lost by 15-20 points with 6 players imagine if we had all of them? This incoming team is #17 now and top in Big East I didnt even put them in tourney I said knocking on the door. For you to be satisfied with anything less baffles me. NCAA screwed us flat out with the #3 class.

And if I remember correctly Orlando missed a couple key early season matchups because the NCAA screwed us yet again and we needed Shabazz lawyer. Yes that team underacheived to an extent but at least they were knocking on the door. Furthermore in regards to discipline-yes Lav's crew had bad games see NIT, DePaul, UNC-Asheville. But the pattern would not develop after 1 bad game. You would see a rebound of sorts and even in upset losses they were slim not 30 pts like D2 school and Incarnate Word. And certainly not HUMILIATED at home with Butler blowout. Body language sucked in those games and much of the long losing streak.

I really hope next season works out for this program but will be a skeptic until proven wrong.

Thinking back, I actually think the loss to Robert Morris was worse than the loss this year to Incarnate Word. 

This team doesn't have a SINGLE sophomore - senior who is going to sniff the D-league, get invited to an NBA camp, or play in any high-level foreign league.

That team had, as juniors, Pointer (drafted), D-Lo (invited to NBA camp, playing in Europe), Phil Greene (invited to NBA camp, playing in Europe), plus Sanchez as a senior (invited to NBA camp and played in D-league) and Sampson as a soph (played in the NBA 2 years).  An absolute freaking joke.

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on February 19, 2016, 11:13:44 PM

Stop right there at "playing their tails off most nights"-Most of the big east schedule and those cupcakes I mentioned it was anything but. That is what was angering many of us-at least play hard and not make nonsense fundamental basketball mistakes even if you are outplayed and other team is better.

Second a Lav team this year of- Yakwe, Sampson (who was not a maybe but committed), Sheed, Obekpa, Amar, Felix, Mussini, and a couple others Lav recruited (or was working on) would have turned this season into a far better one and we still would have been in good position to get good players. Oh yes and Lovett would also have been coming.

I really hope they produce next year-anything short of knocking on NCAA berth is a failure with the top class. I will be looking for the discipline that was not seen often this year and hopefully these recruits have an understanding of fundamental basketball. Never do I want to walk into a game being embarrassed by Incarnate Word and Butler at home or lose to a D2 school.

You can't be serious with this post. Sampson committed?  He only verballed.  And why did he only verbal?  Because he was waiting to see what LSU would do;  if they would start recruiting him.  That's why he never committed to us, as you said he did.  A verbal is nothing.  If he wanted to be here he would have signed in the Fall.

All teams make "fundamental mistakes at some point"  Especially teams with so many first year players, players that have not played in two years, and players who have never played together.  It's easy to be critical of a coach when they make mistakes if the team is losing.  But teams that win make mistakes too.  You can't work on everything.  But when they lose you can just point to their mistakes and say it is poor coaching.  After they lost Lovett, I was worried about 0-32.  They've actually exceeded my expectations since Lovett was ruled out.  Since that 32 point loss to STAC.

By all accounts they play hard.  So you're wrong there.  You don't like the Big East?  It's a top four RPI conference out of 32.  That's tremendous.  You don't like the schedule?  Our SOS is ranked 28th out of 351 D1 teams. That's tremendous.  So I don't really know what you are talking about with that.

As far as Rysheed is concerned, he may have made a deal with Lavin to not go to class, after he came back from Philly.  He wasn't going to class.  He could not have played no matter who the coach was.  He made the decision to leave, but when Mullin was hired, he wanted to come back but had fallen to far behind.  At least give Mullin the credit of getting him to want to come back.  Because he wouldn't have if Lav was here.

Were you serious with this post?  I hope not.  Maybe just looking for a reaction.

First off,  Jordan would have played he did not take finals when Lav was let go that was when he made that decision. Of course Obekpa would still have been here thats a virtual certainty, he had only 1 more year left and this is supported by a close family member who I happen to know. Yakwe was always guarantee it was Diallo that was not.  Sampson barely plays there because of stacked class etc would have had plenty of minutes here and he has alot of talent. He did not sign because the school did not hammer the extension out for Lav had nothing to do with "LSU Offering." You easily forget that he still committed to us AFTER Briscoe spurned us. So yes if Lav is coach he is here and produces.  And whose to say Adonis v Obekpa would have happened if more stability surrounding team and coach was not just let go? Both could have helped us alot this season.

And comparisons with 2012 that have been drawn are flat out wrong. That team if remained intact with eligibility and timing would have had-Lindsey, Dlo, Phil, Norvel, Moe, Jakarr, Dom, Gift , Amir. Say with a straight face that team wasnt expected to make tourney? #3 in America why do you think our crossover SEC game was Kentucky? Lost by 15-20 points with 6 players imagine if we had all of them? This incoming team is #17 now and top in Big East I didnt even put them in tourney I said knocking on the door. For you to be satisfied with anything less baffles me. NCAA screwed us flat out with the #3 class.

And if I remember correctly Orlando missed a couple key early season matchups because the NCAA screwed us yet again and we needed Shabazz lawyer. Yes that team underacheived to an extent but at least they were knocking on the door. Furthermore in regards to discipline-yes Lav's crew had bad games see NIT, DePaul, UNC-Asheville. But the pattern would not develop after 1 bad game. You would see a rebound of sorts and even in upset losses they were slim not 30 pts like D2 school and Incarnate Word. And certainly not HUMILIATED at home with Butler blowout. Body language sucked in those games and much of the long losing streak.

I really hope next season works out for this program but will be a skeptic until proven wrong.

Yeah you're right, adding a full first-year season of a guy who was a mediocre MAAC player, a guy who transferred to a mid-major school and a guy who never suited up in college at all would have turned us from an 11 win team into a tournament team. There's a reason why each and every one of those guys came to SJU. All except Moe were severely flawed in some way.

First off,  Jordan would have played he did not take finals when Lav was let go that was when he made that decision. Of course Obekpa would still have been here thats a virtual certainty, he had only 1 more year left and this is supported by a close family member who I happen to know. Yakwe was always guarantee it was Diallo that was not.  Sampson barely plays there because of stacked class etc would have had plenty of minutes here and he has alot of talent. He did not sign because the school did not hammer the extension out for Lav had nothing to do with "LSU Offering." You easily forget that he still committed to us AFTER Briscoe spurned us. So yes if Lav is coach he is here and produces.  And whose to say Adonis v Obekpa would have happened if more stability surrounding team and coach was not just let go? Both could have helped us alot this season.

And comparisons with 2012 that have been drawn are flat out wrong. That team if remained intact with eligibility and timing would have had-Lindsey, Dlo, Phil, Norvel, Moe, Jakarr, Dom, Gift , Amir. Say with a straight face that team wasnt expected to make tourney? #3 in America why do you think our crossover SEC game was Kentucky? Lost by 15-20 points with 6 players imagine if we had all of them? This incoming team is #17 now and top in Big East I didnt even put them in tourney I said knocking on the door. For you to be satisfied with anything less baffles me. NCAA screwed us flat out with the #3 class.

And if I remember correctly Orlando missed a couple key early season matchups because the NCAA screwed us yet again and we needed Shabazz lawyer. Yes that team underacheived to an extent but at least they were knocking on the door. Furthermore in regards to discipline-yes Lav's crew had bad games see NIT, DePaul, UNC-Asheville. But the pattern would not develop after 1 bad game. You would see a rebound of sorts and even in upset losses they were slim not 30 pts like D2 school and Incarnate Word. And certainly not HUMILIATED at home with Butler blowout. Body language sucked in those games and much of the long losing streak.

I really hope next season works out for this program but will be a skeptic until proven wrong.

Crack kills

Seriously.  It's not even worth responding any further.  I thought Lavin's agent stopped posting on these boards.

First off,  Jordan would have played he did not take finals when Lav was let go that was when he made that decision. Of course Obekpa would still have been here thats a virtual certainty, he had only 1 more year left and this is supported by a close family member who I happen to know. Yakwe was always guarantee it was Diallo that was not.  Sampson barely plays there because of stacked class etc would have had plenty of minutes here and he has alot of talent. He did not sign because the school did not hammer the extension out for Lav had nothing to do with "LSU Offering." You easily forget that he still committed to us AFTER Briscoe spurned us. So yes if Lav is coach he is here and produces.  And whose to say Adonis v Obekpa would have happened if more stability surrounding team and coach was not just let go? Both could have helped us alot this season.

And comparisons with 2012 that have been drawn are flat out wrong. That team if remained intact with eligibility and timing would have had-Lindsey, Dlo, Phil, Norvel, Moe, Jakarr, Dom, Gift , Amir. Say with a straight face that team wasnt expected to make tourney? #3 in America why do you think our crossover SEC game was Kentucky? Lost by 15-20 points with 6 players imagine if we had all of them? This incoming team is #17 now and top in Big East I didnt even put them in tourney I said knocking on the door. For you to be satisfied with anything less baffles me. NCAA screwed us flat out with the #3 class.

And if I remember correctly Orlando missed a couple key early season matchups because the NCAA screwed us yet again and we needed Shabazz lawyer. Yes that team underacheived to an extent but at least they were knocking on the door. Furthermore in regards to discipline-yes Lav's crew had bad games see NIT, DePaul, UNC-Asheville. But the pattern would not develop after 1 bad game. You would see a rebound of sorts and even in upset losses they were slim not 30 pts like D2 school and Incarnate Word. And certainly not HUMILIATED at home with Butler blowout. Body language sucked in those games and much of the long losing streak.

I really hope next season works out for this program but will be a skeptic until proven wrong.

Oh good lord.  Where to start. First off, why would you want Rysheed Jordan or Obekpa to be anywhere NEAR a young group of guys to try and lead them?? Rysheed was never fully committed to the program and his immature behavior was fully enabled by the previous staff, who inconsistently disciplined him and pretty much let him do whatever he wanted.  That lack of discipline carried itself over to the D-League where he wasn't even mature enough to hack it on that level. And you wanted HIM to be back and to be a leader for a young group??

As for Chris Obekpa, he was suspended multiple times during the course of his career, failed 2 drug test, including one before the biggest basketball moments of his life (and I'm all for legalization of marijuana but if you can't control yourself enough to hold off on smoking until after the season, thats a sign of lack of will power and discipline), got into a fight after the season with a teammate and also didn't show up on time to appointments with new staff who provided structure.  And again, you wanted HIM to lead a young group??

This staff had to recruit an entirely new team in THREE MONTHS. Lavin's staff had 15 months to recruit that #3 recruiting class.  And you know why we're in this position with the way the current roster is?? Because our former head coach decided to take recruiting short cuts and offered multiple players who weren't being seriously recruited by other schools being they were qualifying question marks.  Steve Lavin not having a job is entirely Steve Lavin's own fault.  If he had worked harder and had the program stabilized he would still be here, even with the underachieving year of 2013-14.

And you point to the ineligibles of that top recruiting class as saying the NCAA screwed us over but 2 of the 3 ended up eventually coming here and Pelle was also such a head case that he couldn't land anywhere here and last I heard was playing in Taiwan. I will agree with you that we got pretty clearly screwed on the Orlando Sanchez case. And as with pretty much any highly recruited class, you are going to have good players leaving early for the NBA like Moe and Jakarr did.  Lav did a great job recruiting that first class, but his failure to work hard to replace those guys who left early is entirely his own fault.  The three guys that are left over from his program likely wouldn't even sniff the court for meaningful minutes on any of the top 4 teams in the conference. And I can tell you that Yakwe would not have been here if Lavin was here.  His guy liked Lavin as a person but not at all as a basketball coach (which is how most people I speak to around the landscape feel about him).

Stop making so much sense. Better to be an unobjective, uninformed shill for a regime that cared so much about our school they felt "no pressure to win" (that's a direct quote) and destroyed the credibility they had restored to our program (I give credit there) with the Hardy/Brownlee year and two really good recruiting years.  Any real fan of this program is pissed at one person, and one person only, for what is transpiring this season. And if you think I'm anti Lavin go look at my posts from 2010-beginning of last year. Hell I even defended him after the 2014 debacle.

First off,  Jordan would have played he did not take finals when Lav was let go that was when he made that decision. Of course Obekpa would still have been here thats a virtual certainty, he had only 1 more year left and this is supported by a close family member who I happen to know. Yakwe was always guarantee it was Diallo that was not.  Sampson barely plays there because of stacked class etc would have had plenty of minutes here and he has alot of talent. He did not sign because the school did not hammer the extension out for Lav had nothing to do with "LSU Offering." You easily forget that he still committed to us AFTER Briscoe spurned us. So yes if Lav is coach he is here and produces.  And whose to say Adonis v Obekpa would have happened if more stability surrounding team and coach was not just let go? Both could have helped us alot this season.

And comparisons with 2012 that have been drawn are flat out wrong. That team if remained intact with eligibility and timing would have had-Lindsey, Dlo, Phil, Norvel, Moe, Jakarr, Dom, Gift , Amir. Say with a straight face that team wasnt expected to make tourney? #3 in America why do you think our crossover SEC game was Kentucky? Lost by 15-20 points with 6 players imagine if we had all of them? This incoming team is #17 now and top in Big East I didnt even put them in tourney I said knocking on the door. For you to be satisfied with anything less baffles me. NCAA screwed us flat out with the #3 class.

And if I remember correctly Orlando missed a couple key early season matchups because the NCAA screwed us yet again and we needed Shabazz lawyer. Yes that team underacheived to an extent but at least they were knocking on the door. Furthermore in regards to discipline-yes Lav's crew had bad games see NIT, DePaul, UNC-Asheville. But the pattern would not develop after 1 bad game. You would see a rebound of sorts and even in upset losses they were slim not 30 pts like D2 school and Incarnate Word. And certainly not HUMILIATED at home with Butler blowout. Body language sucked in those games and much of the long losing streak.

I really hope next season works out for this program but will be a skeptic until proven wrong.

Are you actually trying to tell us that that the Nuri led Johnnies gave Kentucky a game in 2012? I think you're confusing him with Omar Cook, who lit up UK in 00. In 2012, UK ate us alive. After 10 minutes we had 4 points.

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on February 20, 2016, 12:21:51 AM

First off,  Jordan would have played he did not take finals when Lav was let go that was when he made that decision. Of course Obekpa would still have been here thats a virtual certainty, he had only 1 more year left and this is supported by a close family member who I happen to know. Yakwe was always guarantee it was Diallo that was not.  Sampson barely plays there because of stacked class etc would have had plenty of minutes here and he has alot of talent. He did not sign because the school did not hammer the extension out for Lav had nothing to do with "LSU Offering." You easily forget that he still committed to us AFTER Briscoe spurned us. So yes if Lav is coach he is here and produces.  And whose to say Adonis v Obekpa would have happened if more stability surrounding team and coach was not just let go? Both could have helped us alot this season.

And comparisons with 2012 that have been drawn are flat out wrong. That team if remained intact with eligibility and timing would have had-Lindsey, Dlo, Phil, Norvel, Moe, Jakarr, Dom, Gift , Amir. Say with a straight face that team wasnt expected to make tourney? #3 in America why do you think our crossover SEC game was Kentucky? Lost by 15-20 points with 6 players imagine if we had all of them? This incoming team is #17 now and top in Big East I didnt even put them in tourney I said knocking on the door. For you to be satisfied with anything less baffles me. NCAA screwed us flat out with the #3 class.

And if I remember correctly Orlando missed a couple key early season matchups because the NCAA screwed us yet again and we needed Shabazz lawyer. Yes that team underacheived to an extent but at least they were knocking on the door. Furthermore in regards to discipline-yes Lav's crew had bad games see NIT, DePaul, UNC-Asheville. But the pattern would not develop after 1 bad game. You would see a rebound of sorts and even in upset losses they were slim not 30 pts like D2 school and Incarnate Word. And certainly not HUMILIATED at home with Butler blowout. Body language sucked in those games and much of the long losing streak.

I really hope next season works out for this program but will be a skeptic until proven wrong.

Yeah you're right, adding a full first-year season of a guy who was a mediocre MAAC player, a guy who transferred to a mid-major school and a guy who never suited up in college at all would have turned us from an 11 win team into a tournament team. There's a reason why each and every one of those guys came to SJU. All except Moe were severely flawed in some way.

When someone makes a crazy post you don't have to respond with a post that's just as crazy. Harrison is one the best players we've ever had. Not in the last ten years, but EVER. Like all time. Guys like Pointer and Greene weren't awesome for 4 years, but they are 1000 point scorers, and they've been to the tournament—something we certainly wouldn't have made without their senior seasons.

Lavin made plenty of mistakes along the way, but to ignore any credit that he is due is just a dick move. There are people on this board who want to applaud Norm Roberts for finding Dwight Hardy and Justin Brownlee, even though Norm had them buried on the bench because he's the dumbest coach alive.

First off,  Jordan would have played he did not take finals when Lav was let go that was when he made that decision. Of course Obekpa would still have been here thats a virtual certainty, he had only 1 more year left and this is supported by a close family member who I happen to know. Yakwe was always guarantee it was Diallo that was not.  Sampson barely plays there because of stacked class etc would have had plenty of minutes here and he has alot of talent. He did not sign because the school did not hammer the extension out for Lav had nothing to do with "LSU Offering." You easily forget that he still committed to us AFTER Briscoe spurned us. So yes if Lav is coach he is here and produces.  And whose to say Adonis v Obekpa would have happened if more stability surrounding team and coach was not just let go? Both could have helped us alot this season.

And comparisons with 2012 that have been drawn are flat out wrong. That team if remained intact with eligibility and timing would have had-Lindsey, Dlo, Phil, Norvel, Moe, Jakarr, Dom, Gift , Amir. Say with a straight face that team wasnt expected to make tourney? #3 in America why do you think our crossover SEC game was Kentucky? Lost by 15-20 points with 6 players imagine if we had all of them? This incoming team is #17 now and top in Big East I didnt even put them in tourney I said knocking on the door. For you to be satisfied with anything less baffles me. NCAA screwed us flat out with the #3 class.

And if I remember correctly Orlando missed a couple key early season matchups because the NCAA screwed us yet again and we needed Shabazz lawyer. Yes that team underacheived to an extent but at least they were knocking on the door. Furthermore in regards to discipline-yes Lav's crew had bad games see NIT, DePaul, UNC-Asheville. But the pattern would not develop after 1 bad game. You would see a rebound of sorts and even in upset losses they were slim not 30 pts like D2 school and Incarnate Word. And certainly not HUMILIATED at home with Butler blowout. Body language sucked in those games and much of the long losing streak.

You're delusional.

amen fun

Quote from: friendofjohnnie on February 20, 2016, 12:21:51 AM

First off,  Jordan would have played he did not take finals when Lav was let go that was when he made that decision. Of course Obekpa would still have been here thats a virtual certainty, he had only 1 more year left and this is supported by a close family member who I happen to know. Yakwe was always guarantee it was Diallo that was not.  Sampson barely plays there because of stacked class etc would have had plenty of minutes here and he has alot of talent. He did not sign because the school did not hammer the extension out for Lav had nothing to do with "LSU Offering." You easily forget that he still committed to us AFTER Briscoe spurned us. So yes if Lav is coach he is here and produces.  And whose to say Adonis v Obekpa would have happened if more stability surrounding team and coach was not just let go? Both could have helped us alot this season.

And comparisons with 2012 that have been drawn are flat out wrong. That team if remained intact with eligibility and timing would have had-Lindsey, Dlo, Phil, Norvel, Moe, Jakarr, Dom, Gift , Amir. Say with a straight face that team wasnt expected to make tourney? #3 in America why do you think our crossover SEC game was Kentucky? Lost by 15-20 points with 6 players imagine if we had all of them? This incoming team is #17 now and top in Big East I didnt even put them in tourney I said knocking on the door. For you to be satisfied with anything less baffles me. NCAA screwed us flat out with the #3 class.

And if I remember correctly Orlando missed a couple key early season matchups because the NCAA screwed us yet again and we needed Shabazz lawyer. Yes that team underacheived to an extent but at least they were knocking on the door. Furthermore in regards to discipline-yes Lav's crew had bad games see NIT, DePaul, UNC-Asheville. But the pattern would not develop after 1 bad game. You would see a rebound of sorts and even in upset losses they were slim not 30 pts like D2 school and Incarnate Word. And certainly not HUMILIATED at home with Butler blowout. Body language sucked in those games and much of the long losing streak.

You're delusional.

+1

amen fun

I can understand posters who about Lavin say that he was good enough, who say well, we stunk for a very long time and I am satisfied that SL made the tournament every four years and that the team played respectably on the court most of the other time and I can live with that. I might agree to disagree with posters who thought SL was a good coach or a good recruiter or a good representative of the university, because in my not at all humble opinion he was none of those things.

But if you e.g. say well if SL was still here Obekpa and Adonis would not have had a fist fight and Adonis would have been a big help, that's crazy talk. In the first place Lavin couldn't stop Obekpa from punching people during games on national television, so there's that, and in the second while I sympathize with his plight the only thing Adonis was helping under the Lavin regime was himself, to another slice of pie. (Yes I Know he lost 60 pounds, never let facts get in the way of a good line.) And then you add a bunch of what ifs and surmise and hypotheticals and excuses and all of a sudden, damn, that was a hell of a four years, I'm surprised Lavin was able to accomplish all he did. How did he manage to win one post season game under such circumstances.

The reality of course was that the head coach would still is at Rao's wiping spaghetti sauce from coach grandpa's chin, coach two would be spending all his time on trolling Plenty O Fish and W4M on Craig's List while the third guy was harvesting fake transcripts in parking lots and men's rooms.

Yeah, I miss those guys and I'm not sure about Chris Mullin, Mitch Richmond and Barry Rohrrsen. I think delusional is me being kind.

Im the delusional one here? all i am pointing out is that mistakes were made as what happens on most teams. But the bottom line is even with some of the rough patches we became relevant again. And I think the school mismanaged the Lav situation entirely. I would have given him 2 more years especially after an NCAA Tournament before going to Mullin.

And people have claimed to be insider really do not have the full story and were not involved with the program other than being a fan.

And just to clarify I never said this year we were going to be a tournament team even if those guys stayed with Lav I said we would have been far better thats the extent of it. Stop putting words in my mouth. We would not even have been competitive the past few seasons without ppl like Sheed, Chris, Dlo the ones that had the character issues. You take the good with the bad and DLo did turn it around. Once you have a Kentucky like program or Nova you can afford to not take risks but we were not there not even close -Lav had to work from the bottom up.

And honestly that Kentucky game we were overmatched with a shorthanded squad, my point was that if the class was intact and came as it should have we could have won that game. Id take Moe, Jakarr, DLo, Nuri, Phil. Dom, Gift, Norvel, Amir any day in that matchup and at the very least even if they lost would have been close.

And finally as for the Robert Morris game in the NIT I agree that was bad all around from coaching, body language etc.n Just being close with the team I knew something like that was bound to happen.  But there is a part of me that doesnt blame them for not wanting any part of that game after such a letdown end of season.  I argue that the the team should have not even accepted the NIT invite and used the NCAA spurning as motivation for next season rather than taking the court in a game you want no part of and embarrassing yourselves and the school.

And its crazy talk to assume coaching changes create more instability in the locker room? I know Chris and Adonis had pre-existing issues but its not a stretch to see things boil over into explosion with those 2  when there is instability and uncertainty surrounding a program you are part of.  Especially when the Coaches who recruited you and had a connection with are gone. Mullin had no prior relationship with them to even set a tone and cut down on some tensions that may have arisen whether it started from a practice or whatever. 

It was not uncommon to see Rico or Lav and other coaches to pull guys aside during practice if something was just heated or was about to get to that point. They would sit them down and try to cool things off-but that relationship was different than one a new staff brings because they do not know you and have never coached you before.

NCAA "spurning" in 2013-2014?  Please that team blew a million chances to make the dance. And with the talent level in that squad it shouldn't have been close.

I understand your point about having to take some risks. And that is why many didn't get on Lavin for the initial class issues. But once we had a strong core, Lavin could have been far more selective and successful if he didn't try to short change recruiting.

Last, Lavin's rebuild is a bit overstated. Yes, he rebuilt our image as a destination for good recruits, and I give him credit for that. But on the court he was handed a group of seniors who were in the NIT the prior year and were great kids. He inherited a much better squad than Mullin & Co, and it's not even close.

I've found it tiring to follow along with the above arguments. Better to not get into the cage with posts like that. Just one thing though.  The schedule is really good.  And what's with everyone's preoccupation with Incarnate Word.  They're a solid mid major program.

You're all right.  You're all wrong.

Norm Roberts - 0 Ncaa's.  Ran a what we needed clean program.  Was a bad coach and couldn't recognize who his best players were when it was indeed obvious.

Steve Lavin - 2 Ncaa's.  Had a big mouth, a big head and a weak prostate.  Never met an anology, metaphor, simile or piece of "coach speak" he didn't like.  Worse than me.  Had an excuse (or three) ready for any situation.  Recruited Nba players and created buzz where there had been none. 40% tourney appearances at this sh*thole of a program?  Damn good job by him.

Chris Mullin - ? Ncaa's.  A precious gift to the program to be able to bring the living legend home.  A no brainer as a coaching pick.  Deserves a LIFETIME pass from fans and interweb critics everywhere.

Im the delusional one here? all i am pointing out is that mistakes were made as what happens on most teams. But the bottom line is even with some of the rough patches we became relevant again. And I think the school mismanaged the Lav situation entirely. I would have given him 2 more years especially after an NCAA Tournament before going to Mullin.

And people have claimed to be insider really do not have the full story and were not involved with the program other than being a fan.

And just to clarify I never said this year we were going to be a tournament team even if those guys stayed with Lav I said we would have been far better thats the extent of it. Stop putting words in my mouth. We would not even have been competitive the past few seasons without ppl like Sheed, Chris, Dlo the ones that had the character issues. You take the good with the bad and DLo did turn it around. Once you have a Kentucky like program or Nova you can afford to not take risks but we were not there not even close -Lav had to work from the bottom up.

And honestly that Kentucky game we were overmatched with a shorthanded squad, my point was that if the class was intact and came as it should have we could have won that game. Id take Moe, Jakarr, DLo, Nuri, Phil. Dom, Gift, Norvel, Amir any day in that matchup and at the very least even if they lost would have been close.

And finally as for the Robert Morris game in the NIT I agree that was bad all around from coaching, body language etc.n Just being close with the team I knew something like that was bound to happen.  But there is a part of me that doesnt blame them for not wanting any part of that game after such a letdown end of season.  I argue that the the team should have not even accepted the NIT invite and used the NCAA spurning as motivation for next season rather than taking the court in a game you want no part of and embarrassing yourselves and the school.

And its crazy talk to assume coaching changes create more instability in the locker room? I know Chris and Adonis had pre-existing issues but its not a stretch to see things boil over into explosion with those 2  when there is instability and uncertainty surrounding a program you are part of.  Especially when the Coaches who recruited you and had a connection with are gone. Mullin had no prior relationship with them to even set a tone and cut down on some tensions that may have arisen whether it started from a practice or whatever. 

It was not uncommon to see Rico or Lav and other coaches to pull guys aside during practice if something was just heated or was about to get to that point. They would sit them down and try to cool things off-but that relationship was different than one a new staff brings because they do not know you and have never coached you before.

Here's what it is: 3 years from now is the program better off with what Lavin would have built, or with what Mullin will build?

We'll see. Lavin's recruiting really disappeared towards the end of his time here. He was absolutely not the awful coach he is often made out yo be on this board. That's really not fair, but he became so careless with his program overall in terms of making sure everything was in order with recruits and from what it sounds like, he never really had control over the teams he coached. Every year we go on the ride, and every year, it's always something.

The only time we had a something was his first year. There, I said something nice about Norm Roberts. Mark the day.