First Mullin Media Bash

Serious question for the board when judging Mullin this year:

Kevin Willard often gets celebrated on here as if his coaching acumen is akin to his former boss, Slick Rick.  The Hall is having a nice year, first in a long time, in Year 6 of Willard's tenure.  Did Willard magically learn to coach this year, or is it a combination of him improving as a coach over time (as newbie coaches do) and having the most talent the Hall has had since Tommy Amaker was coaching?  And for those who fawn over Willard, what was your view during the first 5 years in which he failed to do really anything meaningful, even though he inherited a team of upperclassmen far more talented than the hand Mullin got?  I guess I wonder how folks can be seemingly positive about a coach who took 6 years to have an NCAA tourney worth team, even though he inherited a decent deck, but rail on Mullin after only one year, who inherited as bad a situation as there is in major Division I basketball?

All new coaches should get minimum 4 years to build a program.  In Mullin's case he inherited absolutely nothing.  He didn't even inherit enough players to field a team.  I'm not sure how anybody could expect much more in a very competitive D1 conference with the team we had to piece together in like 4 months, and Mullin and the assistants did an amazing job at that,

The guy needs to have a full team of his recruits, with underclassmen and upperclassmen that the staff developed.  Most of this year's successful teams are loaded with seniors, and ones that their HC had recruited.  We started with nothing.   Give the staff a few years to show what they can do,

I don't think too many people expected much more, but I think everyone expected a little more. It didn't happen. The close games that they could have pulled out didn't go our way. Most of that is a lack of talent and awareness, but some of it is coaching, because it has to be.

Serious question for the board when judging Mullin this year:

Kevin Willard often gets celebrated on here as if his coaching acumen is akin to his former boss, Slick Rick.  The Hall is having a nice year, first in a long time, in Year 6 of Willard's tenure.  Did Willard magically learn to coach this year, or is it a combination of him improving as a coach over time (as newbie coaches do) and having the most talent the Hall has had since Tommy Amaker was coaching?  And for those who fawn over Willard, what was your view during the first 5 years in which he failed to do really anything meaningful, even though he inherited a team of upperclassmen far more talented than the hand Mullin got?  I guess I wonder how folks can be seemingly positive about a coach who took 6 years to have an NCAA tourney worth team, even though he inherited a decent deck, but rail on Mullin after only one year, who inherited as bad a situation as there is in major Division I basketball?

Really, I've always thought of Willard as a bust. Even with this one, rare successful season, his overall performance at Seton Hall has been awful.

I liked Willard as a game coach since he has been at seton hall. He looks real good now because he has some talent. I don't think any coach can have sustained success at seton hall. If he is smart he should look to leave.

Not disrespecting your opinion, but this is what I don't get.  Some on this board think he is a good in-game coach, yet the results have been bad for the first 5 years, even though they had some talent on his teams, and even though he inherited a situation superior to the one our coach walked into this year.  I just don't get that. 

Most Seton Hall fans I know that watch all (or most) of their games wanted Willard gone before the year, and even now are split, attributing his success to having terrific talent that they aren't convinced he can duplicate going forward unless he hires other HS or AAU coaches who deliver top players, like Morton and Antigua did.

go a few back before Willard... look at PJ Carliemo's trajectory

1982–83     P.J. Carlesimo     6–23      1–15       9th    
1983–84    P.J. Carlesimo    9–19    2–14    9th    
1984–85    P.J. Carlesimo    10–18    1–15    9th    
1985–86    P.J. Carlesimo    14–18    3–13    9th    
1986–87    P.J. Carlesimo    15–14    4–12    7th    NIT First Round
1987–88    P.J. Carlesimo    22–13    8–8    6th    NCAA Second Round
1988–89    P.J. Carlesimo    31–7    11–5    2nd    NCAA National Final
1989–90    P.J. Carlesimo    12–16    5–11    7th    
1990–91    P.J. Carlesimo    25–9    9–7    T-3rd    NCAA Elite Eight
1991–92    P.J. Carlesimo    23–9    12–6    T-1st    NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1992–93    P.J. Carlesimo    28–7    14–4    1st    NCAA Second Round
1993–94    P.J. Carlesimo    17–13    8–10    7th    NCAA First Round

Not an expert on seton hall basketball. But it seemed like a lot of his former players were not exactly the greatest kids. They had some high end talent but not much depth. Sterling Gibbs was great, but he didn't get along with the freshman . Before this season I was certain thier would be another mutiny . Their hasn't been and the team is playing well . I don't think they get another Isaiah whitehead though.
I have been to a bunch of games At Newark. Kind of a sad experience. The arena is nice, but it kind of looks like the garden when we play Fordham. Very little students. Half the arena is blacked out.

Would a trip to the NIT in year 4 be considered a success as long as the team's recruiting continues to be consistent?

Serious question for the board when judging Mullin this year:

Kevin Willard often gets celebrated on here as if his coaching acumen is akin to his former boss, Slick Rick.  The Hall is having a nice year, first in a long time, in Year 6 of Willard's tenure.  Did Willard magically learn to coach this year, or is it a combination of him improving as a coach over time (as newbie coaches do) and having the most talent the Hall has had since Tommy Amaker was coaching?  And for those who fawn over Willard, what was your view during the first 5 years in which he failed to do really anything meaningful, even though he inherited a team of upperclassmen far more talented than the hand Mullin got?  I guess I wonder how folks can be seemingly positive about a coach who took 6 years to have an NCAA tourney worth team, even though he inherited a decent deck, but rail on Mullin after only one year, who inherited as bad a situation as there is in major Division I basketball?

If Willard was the coach at St. John's, then he'd receive very, little credit for his coaching acumen, or lack of.  He would've long been tarred and feathered, and hung in effigy. 

Precisely my point.  Let's give coach and this staff some time.  I expect substantial progress next year and even more the following, leading to a stable, solid program.  Chris Mullin didn't take this job to fail or give anything less than 1000 percent.  And Slice and Matt didn't come home to their friends and families to do anything less than secure top talent that will bring us back to where we all want this program to be.  This year sucked, as a fan, but I think we are in good hands.

Forget everything about Willard.  He is a cheater.  Hiring Tiny was in clear violation of NCAA rules, which however, are written in such a way that you could never prove it.  The rule states that there cannot be quid pro quo.  In other words, the hiring cannot be contingent on the recruits commitment.  But since you could never prove that, unless the school was stupid enough to write the contingency into the contract, Willard can get away with it.  In the meantime his competitors for the recruiting haul get fired.  Namely Lavin.  I don't know how Willard can look at himself in the mirror.  You have to be a cheater to succeed around here.  Really sad.

And the guys team isn't even ranked even though he has all that talent.  He hasn't done jack.

Next year will be Mullin's first rebuilding year. (Unless we get RA and/or TM)  This year is just a "get it over with year" that we had to go through.  The tough part about this is the recruiting window closes fairly quickly nowadays. You have to start showing progress rapidly because of all the media attention and the internet.  No more long slow rebuilding period like P.J. got at Seton Hall.  This is why I did not want Mullin to take this job, for his own sake.  Because he could be treated very unfairly.  I don't think Mullin will pull a Willard and embark on an illegal recruiting odyssey.

Forget everything about Willard.  He is a cheater.  Hiring Tiny was in clear violation of NCAA rules, which however, are written in such a way that you could never prove it.  The rule states that there cannot be quid pro quo.  In other words, the hiring cannot be contingent on the recruits commitment.  But since you could never prove that, unless the school was stupid enough to write the contingency into the contract, Willard can get away with it.  In the meantime his competitors for the recruiting haul get fired.  Namely Lavin.  I don't know how Willard can look at himself in the mirror.  You have to be a cheater to succeed around here.  Really sad.

And the guys team isn't even ranked even though he has all that talent.  He hasn't done jack.

Fair post except for basically blaming Williard for Lavin getting fired. Steve Lavin got Steve Lavin fired, there were plenty of other recruits out there.

Forget everything about Willard.  He is a cheater.  Hiring Tiny was in clear violation of NCAA rules, which however, are written in such a way that you could never prove it.  The rule states that there cannot be quid pro quo.  In other words, the hiring cannot be contingent on the recruits commitment.  But since you could never prove that, unless the school was stupid enough to write the contingency into the contract, Willard can get away with it.  In the meantime his competitors for the recruiting haul get fired.  Namely Lavin.  I don't know how Willard can look at himself in the mirror.  You have to be a cheater to succeed around here.  Really sad.

And the guys team isn't even ranked even though he has all that talent.  He hasn't done jack.

I wouldn't call it cheating. It's a really risky move and obviously doesn't always work out. Hired Fred Hill to get Jaren Sina too.

Best move Willard made was signing Desi Rodriquez to shift momentum to get Isaiah Whitehead. Desi was always a matchup problem but his physicality was untapped. He's saving that team right now.

Quote from: WillieG on March 02, 2016, 10:06:39 PM

Forget everything about Willard.  He is a cheater.  Hiring Tiny was in clear violation of NCAA rules, which however, are written in such a way that you could never prove it.  The rule states that there cannot be quid pro quo.  In other words, the hiring cannot be contingent on the recruits commitment.  But since you could never prove that, unless the school was stupid enough to write the contingency into the contract, Willard can get away with it.  In the meantime his competitors for the recruiting haul get fired.  Namely Lavin.  I don't know how Willard can look at himself in the mirror.  You have to be a cheater to succeed around here.  Really sad.

And the guys team isn't even ranked even though he has all that talent.  He hasn't done jack.

I wouldn't call it cheating.

Yes Dave, it is cheating. IW's recruitment was cheating and then from there he got Carrington from us.  It's just that you could never prove it unless they were dumb enough to put it into the contract.  But the rules are very clear on this issue.  You can't hire the players high school coach, unless it has nothing to do with the recruits commitment.  But since we knew in the Fall that Tiny would be hired over the next summer, and he then was, we can conclude that Willard was cheating.

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2016, 10:39:45 PM

Quote from: WillieG on March 02, 2016, 10:06:39 PM

Forget everything about Willard.  He is a cheater.  Hiring Tiny was in clear violation of NCAA rules, which however, are written in such a way that you could never prove it.  The rule states that there cannot be quid pro quo.  In other words, the hiring cannot be contingent on the recruits commitment.  But since you could never prove that, unless the school was stupid enough to write the contingency into the contract, Willard can get away with it.  In the meantime his competitors for the recruiting haul get fired.  Namely Lavin.  I don't know how Willard can look at himself in the mirror.  You have to be a cheater to succeed around here.  Really sad.

And the guys team isn't even ranked even though he has all that talent.  He hasn't done jack.

I wouldn't call it cheating.

Yes Dave, it is cheating. IW's recruitment was cheating and then from there he got Carrington from us.  It's just that you could never prove it unless they were dumb enough to put it into the contract.  But the rules are very clear on this issue.  You can't hire the players high school coach, unless it has nothing to do with the recruits commitment.  But since we knew in the Fall that Tiny would be hired over the next summer, and he then was, we can conclude that Willard was cheating.

It's not against the rules. How is it cheating?

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Deeply layered bitterness. Don't want to get into finer details but St. John's isn't helping Goodman so he isn't helping them.

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

He's just reporting on what some on here can't see.  St Jean is being given an opportunity.  Maybe it's a favor to his father and maybe he'll develop into a top ten coach.  In the meantime, we're happy with four years of struggle until we become relevant again.

Let St Jean volunteer as a coach the way Zendon is doing it.  Get someone here who can help Mullin win next year.  We have the horses...not the coaches.