Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY

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Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #200 on: October 04, 2008, 11:24:48 AM »
Take the money if the check big enough.
Opportunity may not present itself later.
Parking only for NYCHA permit holders.

Poison

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Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #201 on: October 06, 2008, 10:45:23 AM »
Take the money if the check big enough.
Opportunity may not present itself later.

It's true. What would we do if it were us? He could get hurt, or prove that he was never that good to begin with like Lopez and Rhodes.

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #202 on: October 06, 2008, 11:07:53 AM »
Take the money if the check big enough.
Opportunity may not present itself later.

It's true. What would we do if it were us? He could get hurt, or prove that he was never that good to begin with like Lopez and Rhodes.

Well if you want to look at the negatives coming here you have to also look at the negatives going elsewhere. Be fair. I think there are plenty of positives if he came here more so than anywhere else.

Lance is not as cultured as Jennings not even close. Lance has pretty much never left Coney Island for an extended period of time. Jennings at least had 2 years on his own at Oak Hill Academy. There are so many factors thaet could go right/wrong for Lance over in Europe. Also I'm not sold on the success that Jennings will have over there. All it takes is for one Euro to get heated over something with him or call him a bad teammate, selfish american, and things could get very bad. We don't have constant media over there covering this so things could get spun unfairly very easily.

Lance was called selfish for team America and got cut. What do you think about guys who are trying to earn a paycheck/living think about some 20 year old kid who will be here for a year taking 30 shots a game killing their personal stats from lack of involvement while they are playing for a contract next year. How will that go over? I can go over plenty of scenarios. I don't think Euro is a good idea.
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Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #203 on: October 06, 2008, 11:08:43 AM »
http://www.sports.ru/blog/messina/5873746.html

Vaccaro likes to point out the sunny side of European basketball, but the other side includes the weak financial positions of the leagues and teams (which results in the uncertainty of receiving full payment), roster instabilty (fans don't become emotionally attached), weak player unions, and burgeoning resentment towards foreign players.

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #204 on: October 06, 2008, 12:45:54 PM »
Honestly, if I was a high school All American, i would be on my way to Europe.  College is fun, but when your family is in a tough financial situation like a lot of these guys' families are, it's very hard to turn down the money.

I am not sure if I agree or disagree.

If you family is in a tough financial situation... chances are that they have been dealing with it for your whole life (18-19 years). Therefore, what is another 4 years while you get your education (for free)???

If your as good as everyone thinks you are... then in 4 years you will be educated and rich. Rather than uneducated and rich.... which will most uneducated kids just blow the money on cars, jewerly, etc.

On the other hand, he can always go back to school and pay for it himself if he takes the check now. But I only can name a few players who have done this.



And what if the kid blows his knee out? Waht if a family member of the kid, god forbid, is hurt or killed while still living in a rough neighborhood when the kid could've taken the money and gotten his family out of the situation?  Very easy to downplay this stuff when people haven't walked a mile in those shoes.

I can understand that. Maybe the NBA can institute a policy that if the kid signs and takes a check... a lot of the money (something like 50%) is put into some type of deferred compensation plan. This way the kid cannot touch all of the money upfront and possibly blow it on unnecessary things.

For instance, if the kid makes 3 million in his first year, take 1.5 million and put it in a deferred compensation plan or some other type of plan that has a 5 to 10 year vesting schedule. The plan can have some kind of provision that if he is buying a house, he can take the proceeds. If not, he cant touch it. The other 1.5, he can take upfront to help his family out immediately.

I think this would help out kids who are too immature to manage such a huge amount of cash themselves... until they have grown up a bit.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 12:48:12 PM by Johnny4Life »

mkras99

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Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #205 on: October 06, 2008, 01:13:31 PM »
Honestly, if I was a high school All American, i would be on my way to Europe.  College is fun, but when your family is in a tough financial situation like a lot of these guys' families are, it's very hard to turn down the money.

I am not sure if I agree or disagree.

If you family is in a tough financial situation... chances are that they have been dealing with it for your whole life (18-19 years). Therefore, what is another 4 years while you get your education (for free)???

If your as good as everyone thinks you are... then in 4 years you will be educated and rich. Rather than uneducated and rich.... which will most uneducated kids just blow the money on cars, jewerly, etc.

On the other hand, he can always go back to school and pay for it himself if he takes the check now. But I only can name a few players who have done this.



And what if the kid blows his knee out? Waht if a family member of the kid, god forbid, is hurt or killed while still living in a rough neighborhood when the kid could've taken the money and gotten his family out of the situation?  Very easy to downplay this stuff when people haven't walked a mile in those shoes.

I can understand that. Maybe the NBA can institute a policy that if the kid signs and takes a check... a lot of the money (something like 50%) is put into some type of deferred compensation plan. This way the kid cannot touch all of the money upfront and possibly blow it on unnecessary things.

For instance, if the kid makes 3 million in his first year, take 1.5 million and put it in a deferred compensation plan or some other type of plan that has a 5 to 10 year vesting schedule. The plan can have some kind of provision that if he is buying a house, he can take the proceeds. If not, he cant touch it. The other 1.5, he can take upfront to help his family out immediately.

I think this would help out kids who are too immature to manage such a huge amount of cash themselves... until they have grown up a bit.


Deferred compensation plans are now way too complicated under tax law.  Couldn't withdraw money to buy a house without incurring an additional 20% tax.  Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?  It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?

peter

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Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #206 on: October 06, 2008, 02:10:07 PM »
Pittsburgh, interested in Lance?

http://w3.nbebasketball.com/index.php/big-east-news-notes-1062008/

Also, St. John’s might not be the only Big East team involved with the mega-talented Lance Stephenson as Pittsburgh has entered the mix with Brandin Knight leading their efforts on the recruiting trail.

Note that there is no attribution for the info, so I'm not sure how reliable the source is. 

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #207 on: October 06, 2008, 02:16:28 PM »

Note that there is no attribution for the info, so I'm not sure how reliable the source is. 
“Kansas, Memphis, USC and UCLA are the schools Lance wants to visit within the month,” Stewart told JayHawkslant.com. “Brandin Knight from Pittsburgh is really pushing hard for a visit. He’s done a great job of providing a lot of information about the school to Lance, but I just don’t know at this point if a visit to Pittsburgh will happen.”
NBE->Zags->JHS
http://www.zagsblog.net/2008/10/03/williams-lawrence-to-visit-st-johns/

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #208 on: October 06, 2008, 03:22:22 PM »
Honestly, if I was a high school All American, i would be on my way to Europe.  College is fun, but when your family is in a tough financial situation like a lot of these guys' families are, it's very hard to turn down the money.

I am not sure if I agree or disagree.

If you family is in a tough financial situation... chances are that they have been dealing with it for your whole life (18-19 years). Therefore, what is another 4 years while you get your education (for free)???

If your as good as everyone thinks you are... then in 4 years you will be educated and rich. Rather than uneducated and rich.... which will most uneducated kids just blow the money on cars, jewerly, etc.

On the other hand, he can always go back to school and pay for it himself if he takes the check now. But I only can name a few players who have done this.



And what if the kid blows his knee out? Waht if a family member of the kid, god forbid, is hurt or killed while still living in a rough neighborhood when the kid could've taken the money and gotten his family out of the situation?  Very easy to downplay this stuff when people haven't walked a mile in those shoes.

I can understand that. Maybe the NBA can institute a policy that if the kid signs and takes a check... a lot of the money (something like 50%) is put into some type of deferred compensation plan. This way the kid cannot touch all of the money upfront and possibly blow it on unnecessary things.

For instance, if the kid makes 3 million in his first year, take 1.5 million and put it in a deferred compensation plan or some other type of plan that has a 5 to 10 year vesting schedule. The plan can have some kind of provision that if he is buying a house, he can take the proceeds. If not, he cant touch it. The other 1.5, he can take upfront to help his family out immediately.

I think this would help out kids who are too immature to manage such a huge amount of cash themselves... until they have grown up a bit.


Deferred compensation plans are now way too complicated under tax law.  Couldn't withdraw money to buy a house without incurring an additional 20% tax.  Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?  It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?

Q: Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?
A: From my understanding, if invested prudently there wouldn't be a forfeiture.

Q: It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?
A: The kid wouldn't want to delay income or want a vesting schedule. But I think it would be in the best interest of the kid to prevent him from making financial mistakes. Let's face it, there aren't too many 18-21 year olds who would do the right thing with their money by becoming an instant millionaire. Under my suggestion, I was trying to say if the kid signed for 3 million. He would get 50% in cash. The other 50% would be in a deferred comp plan (let's say 10 years) where he would be able to take 20% per year, after year 5.

Contract: 3 million per year for 3 years (9 million total)

Year 1: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 2: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 3: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)

Now let's just say the kid blows out his knee and never signs a contract again.

Year 4: Nothing
Year 5: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300K (plus any interest in the deferred comp)
Year 6: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k
Year 7: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 8: Again... 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 9: repeat of years 7 & 8
year 10: repeat of years 7, 8 & 9.
year 11: you get the idea....

In summary his cash payout would look like this:

Year 1: 1.5 million
Year 2: 1.5 million
Year 3: 1.5 million
Year 4: 0
Year 5: 300k
Year 6: 600k
Year 7: 900k
Year 8: 900k
Year 9: 900k
Year 10: 600k
Year 11: 300k
Year 12: nothing

Like I mentioned earlier this would assume he would blow out his knee in year 3/4 and wouldnt play a game of basketball ever again. It also assumes the kid didn't make any interest/gains from the money kept in the deferred comp plan.  I think something like this would help the kids save their money until they grow up a bit and become more responsible. Additionally, under my scenario, if the kid did blow out his knee in year 3/4, he would (1) be older and hopefully more responsible (2) still have some money saved to live a good life afterwards for him and his family.



« Last Edit: October 06, 2008, 03:24:39 PM by Johnny4Life »

mkras99

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Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #209 on: October 06, 2008, 03:36:56 PM »
Honestly, if I was a high school All American, i would be on my way to Europe.  College is fun, but when your family is in a tough financial situation like a lot of these guys' families are, it's very hard to turn down the money.

I am not sure if I agree or disagree.

If you family is in a tough financial situation... chances are that they have been dealing with it for your whole life (18-19 years). Therefore, what is another 4 years while you get your education (for free)???

If your as good as everyone thinks you are... then in 4 years you will be educated and rich. Rather than uneducated and rich.... which will most uneducated kids just blow the money on cars, jewerly, etc.

On the other hand, he can always go back to school and pay for it himself if he takes the check now. But I only can name a few players who have done this.



And what if the kid blows his knee out? Waht if a family member of the kid, god forbid, is hurt or killed while still living in a rough neighborhood when the kid could've taken the money and gotten his family out of the situation?  Very easy to downplay this stuff when people haven't walked a mile in those shoes.

I can understand that. Maybe the NBA can institute a policy that if the kid signs and takes a check... a lot of the money (something like 50%) is put into some type of deferred compensation plan. This way the kid cannot touch all of the money upfront and possibly blow it on unnecessary things.

For instance, if the kid makes 3 million in his first year, take 1.5 million and put it in a deferred compensation plan or some other type of plan that has a 5 to 10 year vesting schedule. The plan can have some kind of provision that if he is buying a house, he can take the proceeds. If not, he cant touch it. The other 1.5, he can take upfront to help his family out immediately.

I think this would help out kids who are too immature to manage such a huge amount of cash themselves... until they have grown up a bit.


Deferred compensation plans are now way too complicated under tax law.  Couldn't withdraw money to buy a house without incurring an additional 20% tax.  Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?  It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?

Q: Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?
A: From my understanding, if invested prudently there wouldn't be a forfeiture.

Q: It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?
A: The kid wouldn't want to delay income or want a vesting schedule. But I think it would be in the best interest of the kid to prevent him from making financial mistakes. Let's face it, there aren't too many 18-21 year olds who would do the right thing with their money by becoming an instant millionaire. Under my suggestion, I was trying to say if the kid signed for 3 million. He would get 50% in cash. The other 50% would be in a deferred comp plan (let's say 10 years) where he would be able to take 20% per year, after year 5.

Contract: 3 million per year for 3 years (9 million total)

Year 1: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 2: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 3: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)

Now let's just say the kid blows out his knee and never signs a contract again.

Year 4: Nothing
Year 5: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300K (plus any interest in the deferred comp)
Year 6: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k
Year 7: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 8: Again... 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 9: repeat of years 7 & 8
year 10: repeat of years 7, 8 & 9.
year 11: you get the idea....

In summary his cash payout would look like this:

Year 1: 1.5 million
Year 2: 1.5 million
Year 3: 1.5 million
Year 4: 0
Year 5: 300k
Year 6: 600k
Year 7: 900k
Year 8: 900k
Year 9: 900k
Year 10: 600k
Year 11: 300k
Year 12: nothing

Like I mentioned earlier this would assume he would blow out his knee in year 3/4 and wouldnt play a game of basketball ever again. It also assumes the kid didn't make any interest/gains from the money kept in the deferred comp plan.  I think something like this would help the kids save their money until they grow up a bit and become more responsible. Additionally, under my scenario, if the kid did blow out his knee in year 3/4, he would (1) be older and hopefully more responsible (2) still have some money saved to live a good life afterwards for him and his family.





I think you're conflating vesting with distribution.

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #210 on: October 06, 2008, 03:54:39 PM »
Honestly, if I was a high school All American, i would be on my way to Europe.  College is fun, but when your family is in a tough financial situation like a lot of these guys' families are, it's very hard to turn down the money.

I am not sure if I agree or disagree.

If you family is in a tough financial situation... chances are that they have been dealing with it for your whole life (18-19 years). Therefore, what is another 4 years while you get your education (for free)???

If your as good as everyone thinks you are... then in 4 years you will be educated and rich. Rather than uneducated and rich.... which will most uneducated kids just blow the money on cars, jewerly, etc.

On the other hand, he can always go back to school and pay for it himself if he takes the check now. But I only can name a few players who have done this.



And what if the kid blows his knee out? Waht if a family member of the kid, god forbid, is hurt or killed while still living in a rough neighborhood when the kid could've taken the money and gotten his family out of the situation?  Very easy to downplay this stuff when people haven't walked a mile in those shoes.

I can understand that. Maybe the NBA can institute a policy that if the kid signs and takes a check... a lot of the money (something like 50%) is put into some type of deferred compensation plan. This way the kid cannot touch all of the money upfront and possibly blow it on unnecessary things.

For instance, if the kid makes 3 million in his first year, take 1.5 million and put it in a deferred compensation plan or some other type of plan that has a 5 to 10 year vesting schedule. The plan can have some kind of provision that if he is buying a house, he can take the proceeds. If not, he cant touch it. The other 1.5, he can take upfront to help his family out immediately.

I think this would help out kids who are too immature to manage such a huge amount of cash themselves... until they have grown up a bit.


Deferred compensation plans are now way too complicated under tax law.  Couldn't withdraw money to buy a house without incurring an additional 20% tax.  Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?  It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?

Q: Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?
A: From my understanding, if invested prudently there wouldn't be a forfeiture.

Q: It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?
A: The kid wouldn't want to delay income or want a vesting schedule. But I think it would be in the best interest of the kid to prevent him from making financial mistakes. Let's face it, there aren't too many 18-21 year olds who would do the right thing with their money by becoming an instant millionaire. Under my suggestion, I was trying to say if the kid signed for 3 million. He would get 50% in cash. The other 50% would be in a deferred comp plan (let's say 10 years) where he would be able to take 20% per year, after year 5.

Contract: 3 million per year for 3 years (9 million total)

Year 1: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 2: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 3: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)

Now let's just say the kid blows out his knee and never signs a contract again.

Year 4: Nothing
Year 5: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300K (plus any interest in the deferred comp)
Year 6: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k
Year 7: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 8: Again... 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 9: repeat of years 7 & 8
year 10: repeat of years 7, 8 & 9.
year 11: you get the idea....

In summary his cash payout would look like this:

Year 1: 1.5 million
Year 2: 1.5 million
Year 3: 1.5 million
Year 4: 0
Year 5: 300k
Year 6: 600k
Year 7: 900k
Year 8: 900k
Year 9: 900k
Year 10: 600k
Year 11: 300k
Year 12: nothing

Like I mentioned earlier this would assume he would blow out his knee in year 3/4 and wouldnt play a game of basketball ever again. It also assumes the kid didn't make any interest/gains from the money kept in the deferred comp plan.  I think something like this would help the kids save their money until they grow up a bit and become more responsible. Additionally, under my scenario, if the kid did blow out his knee in year 3/4, he would (1) be older and hopefully more responsible (2) still have some money saved to live a good life afterwards for him and his family.





I think you're conflating vesting with distribution.

Vesting is the termology that is used (it is used in the industry when talking about restricted stock, employee stock options, 401k plans, etc). But it means the same thing as a distribution.

mkras99

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Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #211 on: October 06, 2008, 04:00:14 PM »
Honestly, if I was a high school All American, i would be on my way to Europe.  College is fun, but when your family is in a tough financial situation like a lot of these guys' families are, it's very hard to turn down the money.

I am not sure if I agree or disagree.

If you family is in a tough financial situation... chances are that they have been dealing with it for your whole life (18-19 years). Therefore, what is another 4 years while you get your education (for free)???

If your as good as everyone thinks you are... then in 4 years you will be educated and rich. Rather than uneducated and rich.... which will most uneducated kids just blow the money on cars, jewerly, etc.

On the other hand, he can always go back to school and pay for it himself if he takes the check now. But I only can name a few players who have done this.



And what if the kid blows his knee out? Waht if a family member of the kid, god forbid, is hurt or killed while still living in a rough neighborhood when the kid could've taken the money and gotten his family out of the situation?  Very easy to downplay this stuff when people haven't walked a mile in those shoes.

I can understand that. Maybe the NBA can institute a policy that if the kid signs and takes a check... a lot of the money (something like 50%) is put into some type of deferred compensation plan. This way the kid cannot touch all of the money upfront and possibly blow it on unnecessary things.

For instance, if the kid makes 3 million in his first year, take 1.5 million and put it in a deferred compensation plan or some other type of plan that has a 5 to 10 year vesting schedule. The plan can have some kind of provision that if he is buying a house, he can take the proceeds. If not, he cant touch it. The other 1.5, he can take upfront to help his family out immediately.

I think this would help out kids who are too immature to manage such a huge amount of cash themselves... until they have grown up a bit.


Deferred compensation plans are now way too complicated under tax law.  Couldn't withdraw money to buy a house without incurring an additional 20% tax.  Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?  It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?

Q: Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?
A: From my understanding, if invested prudently there wouldn't be a forfeiture.

Q: It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?
A: The kid wouldn't want to delay income or want a vesting schedule. But I think it would be in the best interest of the kid to prevent him from making financial mistakes. Let's face it, there aren't too many 18-21 year olds who would do the right thing with their money by becoming an instant millionaire. Under my suggestion, I was trying to say if the kid signed for 3 million. He would get 50% in cash. The other 50% would be in a deferred comp plan (let's say 10 years) where he would be able to take 20% per year, after year 5.

Contract: 3 million per year for 3 years (9 million total)

Year 1: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 2: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 3: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)

Now let's just say the kid blows out his knee and never signs a contract again.

Year 4: Nothing
Year 5: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300K (plus any interest in the deferred comp)
Year 6: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k
Year 7: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 8: Again... 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 9: repeat of years 7 & 8
year 10: repeat of years 7, 8 & 9.
year 11: you get the idea....

In summary his cash payout would look like this:

Year 1: 1.5 million
Year 2: 1.5 million
Year 3: 1.5 million
Year 4: 0
Year 5: 300k
Year 6: 600k
Year 7: 900k
Year 8: 900k
Year 9: 900k
Year 10: 600k
Year 11: 300k
Year 12: nothing

Like I mentioned earlier this would assume he would blow out his knee in year 3/4 and wouldnt play a game of basketball ever again. It also assumes the kid didn't make any interest/gains from the money kept in the deferred comp plan.  I think something like this would help the kids save their money until they grow up a bit and become more responsible. Additionally, under my scenario, if the kid did blow out his knee in year 3/4, he would (1) be older and hopefully more responsible (2) still have some money saved to live a good life afterwards for him and his family.





I think you're conflating vesting with distribution.

Vesting is the termology that is used (it is used in the industry when talking about restricted stock, employee stock options, 401k plans, etc). But it means the same thing as a distribution.
Not to belabor the point or bore anyone more than I already have, but if something needs to "vest", then you don't have the right to it, unless you meet continued service or other requirements.  If something needs to vest, then it is subject to a risk of forfeiture (you need a substantial risk of forfeiture for restricted stock).  So if you're suggesting that these amounts be subject to vesting conditions (rather than simply defer distribution), then you're saying that these kids should put money that they would have otherwise been entitled to today at risk.

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #212 on: October 06, 2008, 04:09:07 PM »
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
When you're a kid from New York and you do it in New York, that lasts forever!

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #213 on: October 06, 2008, 04:24:21 PM »
Honestly, if I was a high school All American, i would be on my way to Europe.  College is fun, but when your family is in a tough financial situation like a lot of these guys' families are, it's very hard to turn down the money.

I am not sure if I agree or disagree.

If you family is in a tough financial situation... chances are that they have been dealing with it for your whole life (18-19 years). Therefore, what is another 4 years while you get your education (for free)???

If your as good as everyone thinks you are... then in 4 years you will be educated and rich. Rather than uneducated and rich.... which will most uneducated kids just blow the money on cars, jewerly, etc.

On the other hand, he can always go back to school and pay for it himself if he takes the check now. But I only can name a few players who have done this.



And what if the kid blows his knee out? Waht if a family member of the kid, god forbid, is hurt or killed while still living in a rough neighborhood when the kid could've taken the money and gotten his family out of the situation?  Very easy to downplay this stuff when people haven't walked a mile in those shoes.

I can understand that. Maybe the NBA can institute a policy that if the kid signs and takes a check... a lot of the money (something like 50%) is put into some type of deferred compensation plan. This way the kid cannot touch all of the money upfront and possibly blow it on unnecessary things.

For instance, if the kid makes 3 million in his first year, take 1.5 million and put it in a deferred compensation plan or some other type of plan that has a 5 to 10 year vesting schedule. The plan can have some kind of provision that if he is buying a house, he can take the proceeds. If not, he cant touch it. The other 1.5, he can take upfront to help his family out immediately.

I think this would help out kids who are too immature to manage such a huge amount of cash themselves... until they have grown up a bit.


Deferred compensation plans are now way too complicated under tax law.  Couldn't withdraw money to buy a house without incurring an additional 20% tax.  Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?  It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?

Q: Also, why subject money that you could have today to risk of forfeiture?
A: From my understanding, if invested prudently there wouldn't be a forfeiture.

Q: It's one thing to defer w/o adding any vesting conditions in order to delay income, but why would the kid want to add vesting conditions as well?
A: The kid wouldn't want to delay income or want a vesting schedule. But I think it would be in the best interest of the kid to prevent him from making financial mistakes. Let's face it, there aren't too many 18-21 year olds who would do the right thing with their money by becoming an instant millionaire. Under my suggestion, I was trying to say if the kid signed for 3 million. He would get 50% in cash. The other 50% would be in a deferred comp plan (let's say 10 years) where he would be able to take 20% per year, after year 5.

Contract: 3 million per year for 3 years (9 million total)

Year 1: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 2: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)
Year 3: 1.5 million cash (1.5 million in deferred comp; 20% vesting per year, starting in year 5)

Now let's just say the kid blows out his knee and never signs a contract again.

Year 4: Nothing
Year 5: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300K (plus any interest in the deferred comp)
Year 6: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k
Year 7: 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 8: Again... 20% of the 1.5 million from year 1 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million from year 2 = 300k plus 20% of the 1.5 million in deferred comp from year 3 = 300k (Total payout 900k)
year 9: repeat of years 7 & 8
year 10: repeat of years 7, 8 & 9.
year 11: you get the idea....

In summary his cash payout would look like this:

Year 1: 1.5 million
Year 2: 1.5 million
Year 3: 1.5 million
Year 4: 0
Year 5: 300k
Year 6: 600k
Year 7: 900k
Year 8: 900k
Year 9: 900k
Year 10: 600k
Year 11: 300k
Year 12: nothing

Like I mentioned earlier this would assume he would blow out his knee in year 3/4 and wouldnt play a game of basketball ever again. It also assumes the kid didn't make any interest/gains from the money kept in the deferred comp plan.  I think something like this would help the kids save their money until they grow up a bit and become more responsible. Additionally, under my scenario, if the kid did blow out his knee in year 3/4, he would (1) be older and hopefully more responsible (2) still have some money saved to live a good life afterwards for him and his family.





I think you're conflating vesting with distribution.

Vesting is the termology that is used (it is used in the industry when talking about restricted stock, employee stock options, 401k plans, etc). But it means the same thing as a distribution.
Not to belabor the point or bore anyone more than I already have, but if something needs to "vest", then you don't have the right to it, unless you meet continued service or other requirements.  If something needs to vest, then it is subject to a risk of forfeiture (you need a substantial risk of forfeiture for restricted stock).  So if you're suggesting that these amounts be subject to vesting conditions (rather than simply defer distribution), then you're saying that these kids should put money that they would have otherwise been entitled to today at risk.

You are right in the traditional terms of the word "vest". However, I meant it as a distribution.

My idea I was trying to communicate was give the kid the money. But don't give it to him all at once. Make it stretch out over a longer period in time.

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #214 on: October 07, 2008, 06:02:26 PM »
http://w3.nbebasketball.com/index.php/big-east-news-notes-1062008/

Also, St. John’s might not be the only Big East team involved with the mega-talented Lance Stephenson as Pittsburgh has entered the mix with Brandin Knight leading their efforts on the recruiting trail.




Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #215 on: October 07, 2008, 08:44:25 PM »
http://w3.nbebasketball.com/index.php/big-east-news-notes-1062008/

Also, St. John’s might not be the only Big East team involved with the mega-talented Lance Stephenson as Pittsburgh has entered the mix with Brandin Knight leading their efforts on the recruiting trail.





Look up about 6 posts...this was posted. Come on Baldi!
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #216 on: October 07, 2008, 08:49:27 PM »
http://w3.nbebasketball.com/index.php/big-east-news-notes-1062008/

Also, St. John’s might not be the only Big East team involved with the mega-talented Lance Stephenson as Pittsburgh has entered the mix with Brandin Knight leading their efforts on the recruiting trail.





Look up about 6 posts...this was posted. Come on Baldi!

Baldi is on some painkillers at the moment, please come back later

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #217 on: October 08, 2008, 10:25:30 AM »
http://w3.nbebasketball.com/index.php/big-east-news-notes-1062008/

Also, St. John’s might not be the only Big East team involved with the mega-talented Lance Stephenson as Pittsburgh has entered the mix with Brandin Knight leading their efforts on the recruiting trail.






Look up about 6 posts...this was posted. Come on Baldi!

Baldi is on some painkillers at the moment, please come back later

I guess I am going to have to post a picture of Brandin Knight on the Off Topic board - "People Who You Wish Will Go Away"  ;)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 10:26:10 AM by Johnny4Life »

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #218 on: October 11, 2008, 10:10:50 AM »
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/columns/story?columnist=williams_antonio&id=3635981

However, recent reports have begun to spread that these talented prospects will head to Europe instead of playing college basketball.

The two players most prone to Sonny Vaccaro

Re: Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY
« Reply #219 on: October 11, 2008, 03:17:43 PM »
I'd say more rumors have him to st johns than Europe. Take rumors for what they are worth...rumors.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle