First Mullin Media Bash

Quote from: Poison on March 03, 2016, 10:08:00 AM

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 09:12:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2016, 11:35:31 PM

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I think it's a fair point that fans are generally not sure what Mullin does. He has his recruiters. He has in-game strategy. What does Mullin do?

I don't know what Mullin does or doesn't do and neither do you, because we only see him doing it 80 minutes out of the ten thousand minutes there are in a week. (How's my math bitches.) So far he's assembled a pretty good staff to whom he's delegated responsibility like a good CEO and he's closed the deal with some pretty high profile recruits and I hear he's installed a system of accountability designed to aid his tender charges become adults, which was something that the previous staff did not seem to care about particularly. I know that he goes to HS basketball games, which is something his predecessor also did not care to do. I do not know where he eats dinner and what kind of wine he likes and which movies he prefers, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know what sort of sweat suits he gets comped, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know whether his assistant coaches wear condoms or not when they hook up with random broads from Craig's List, which I know about the previous staff. I know that no one has to wipe gravy from Mitch Richmond's chin after the pre game meal, which I'm pretty sure someone had to from Mister Myagi's.

What I know especially is that Mullin has a reverence for the university and its traditions and place in the community that the former staff assuredly did not have and that he did not come here to disrespect that. That does not mean he won't fail, but at least he'll try, and I've already seen what happens when someone who doesn't give a shit about the university and doesn't flying #$%^ whether he succeeds comes here, and that is somewhere that I am overjoyed we are not at at present and so I'm willing to extend the greatest player in school history the benefit of at least 14 months doubt that he can be as successful at head coaching as he has been at everything else in basketball for half a century. As usual, YMMV.

+1000000 to this post.

Also, there are 525,600 minutes in a year.  How do you like MY math, bitch??  Or my knowledge of show tunes from RENT.  One of the two.

Speaking of show tunes, referring back to newsman's post: Father Harrington and Rob Wile were having an affair??!

Is that the same Sports Illustrated that looks the other way when the big boys cheat.  North Carolina hasn't required its players to attend classes for decades...and Towson is on probation.  But I digress.

Yes, you do. Sports Illustrated is the most important sports publication in the history of the universe and they don't put people on probation, the NCAA does, as they did with Saint John's. And in their role as sports arbiters they named Jarvis as an extraordinary criminal, this in a world that included murder at Baylor, longstanding institutional corruption at Kentucky, organized crime involvement in sports betting that ended up with Jack Molinas getting his brains splattered across his lawn, Madame Rick Pitino and even John Calipari. That's saying something extraordinary.

I can stipulate that a coach whose record is in constant decline can expect to be fired.  That was the case with Jarvis.  Forgetting the "forfeited" games which a whimpering Harrington ceded over a one point per game player who liked his trim, the Jarvis years were the best we had since the mid 80s.  98-99 we won 28 games and finished in the top ten in polls.  99-00 we won 25 games and also finished in the top ten.  We appeared in the top 20 the following year before falling off the charts.  In Jarvis' five full years, we were in the NCAA's three times and won the NIT once.

For someone who claims to be against revisionist history, you play loose with facts. Which facts include that most of Jarvis's wins were vacated by the NCAA, as was his NIT title. He won 66 games total at SJU. Father Harrington had nothing to do with the forfeits and the sanctions and the probation, that was the NCAA: "The N.C.A.A. instead placed St. John's on probation," that from the NY Times. Father Harrington OTOH is the priest who threatened to disband the basketball program in the wake of Jarhead's disastrous tenure, in which cash payments were made to amateur athletes, a Skills for Life graduate beat a female student, and routine benign investigatory processes were compared to rape by the Nazis. Which tenure began with inheriting an NCAA tournament team and ended with bequeathing a 6 win team facing the death penalty, without which sterling legacy Norm Roberts would never have been hired as SJ coach in a million years.

The players are not that bad.  Not so bad they got blown out at home by STAC...along with other blowouts that included Fordham, some Texas school no one ever heard of...and the coke bottle glasses wearing players at New Jersey Institute of Technology.  I'm too embarrassed to run down the rest of the recording losing streak debacles.

If you care about the score in an exhibition game perhaps you embarrass too easily. Saint John's has been getting blown out on the regular for 20 years. They all run together for me - I can't tell them apart anymore and anyway I have 100 other things that make me blush. And yes, the players are that bad, just about the least talented team I've ever seen at SJU except maybe the post orgy team left behind when Jarvis's exemplary student athletes were expelled.

Again, we're on the same page re: Mullin.  I don't care that he sits on the scorers table chewing gum or lets his assistants take over during times out.  He's a cool guy with his own style.  What's wrong with the picture is no one is teaching defense so crappy teams like Creighton can light us up for 100 points and the fan base complains about their coach not having class for calling the dogs off.

I love it when we can reach common ground. It appeals to the kinder gentler FOAD I have been attempting to cultivate. Thanks at least for that.

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 10:33:37 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 03, 2016, 10:08:00 AM

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 09:12:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2016, 11:35:31 PM

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I think it's a fair point that fans are generally not sure what Mullin does. He has his recruiters. He has in-game strategy. What does Mullin do?

I don't know what Mullin does or doesn't do and neither do you, because we only see him doing it 80 minutes out of the ten thousand minutes there are in a week. (How's my math bitches.) So far he's assembled a pretty good staff to whom he's delegated responsibility like a good CEO and he's closed the deal with some pretty high profile recruits and I hear he's installed a system of accountability designed to aid his tender charges become adults, which was something that the previous staff did not seem to care about particularly. I know that he goes to HS basketball games, which is something his predecessor also did not care to do. I do not know where he eats dinner and what kind of wine he likes and which movies he prefers, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know what sort of sweat suits he gets comped, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know whether his assistant coaches wear condoms or not when they hook up with random broads from Craig's List, which I know about the previous staff. I know that no one has to wipe gravy from Mitch Richmond's chin after the pre game meal, which I'm pretty sure someone had to from Mister Myagi's.

What I know especially is that Mullin has a reverence for the university and its traditions and place in the community that the former staff assuredly did not have and that he did not come here to disrespect that. That does not mean he won't fail, but at least he'll try, and I've already seen what happens when someone who doesn't give a shit about the university and doesn't flying #$%^ whether he succeeds comes here, and that is somewhere that I am overjoyed we are not at at present and so I'm willing to extend the greatest player in school history the benefit of at least 14 months doubt that he can be as successful at head coaching as he has been at everything else in basketball for half a century. As usual, YMMV.

+1000000 to this post.

Also, there are 525,600 minutes in a year.  How do you like MY math, bitch??  Or my knowledge of show tunes from RENT.  One of the two.

Speaking of show tunes, referring back to newsman's post: Father Harrington and Rob Wile were having an affair??!

Again I don't want to argue a side against the person I am rooting for but Mullin is only judged by those 80 minutes. No one knows who the best practice coach, player or anything is because they don't keep those stats. So those other 525,000 minutes are irrelevant.
I want Mullin to do well and I think he will. I do feel he needs to tighten up his perception as a coach until  he can start winning, which is going to take awhile. Why give critics any ammo? Get off the table and hold a clip board. Or don't. Doesn't matter to me but seems to matter to some.

Father Harrington and Rob Wile were having an affair??!

That is a scurrilous rumor that has in the  past been bandied about by the sort of repulsive poster who doxes the wife of someone who disagrees with their assessment of a shooting guard. The particular poster I reference was quite vehement about it. But then he's awful and a bigot, unlike Krusty, who's just a tad excitable. There are still people who think that calling someone a nancy is the worst insult in the world. I don't get it, but there's a lot I don't understand.

Again I don't want to argue a side against the person I am rooting for but Mullin is only judged by those 80 minutes. No one knows who the best practice coach, player or anything is because they don't keep those stats. So those other 525,000 minutes are irrelevant.
I want Mullin to do well and I think he will. I do feel he needs to tighten up his perception as a coach until  he can start winning, which is going to take awhile. Why give critics any ammo? Get off the table and hold a clip board. Or don't. Doesn't matter to me but seems to matter to some.

I understand your point about perceptions. But I'm guessing CM doesn't give a shit about what message board dweebs like you and I think of him. He said he's here to resurrect the Saint John's BB program and then in a bit turn it over to someone who will cherish it, as he does. He knows that's not happening this year and that what happens this year on the court does not matter in the slightest - except to the extent that it to lays the ground work for future success. I agree, which is why I don't care where he sits or what he does. In the same way that if Lavin didn't suck so hard I wouldn't have cared what he wore or how much pasta he shoved in his fat face. 

Quote from: we are sju on March 03, 2016, 04:18:12 PM

Again I don't want to argue a side against the person I am rooting for but Mullin is only judged by those 80 minutes. No one knows who the best practice coach, player or anything is because they don't keep those stats. So those other 525,000 minutes are irrelevant.
I want Mullin to do well and I think he will. I do feel he needs to tighten up his perception as a coach until  he can start winning, which is going to take awhile. Why give critics any ammo? Get off the table and hold a clip board. Or don't. Doesn't matter to me but seems to matter to some.

I understand your point about perceptions. But I'm guessing CM doesn't give a shit about what message board dweebs like you and I think of him. He said he's here to resurrect the Saint John's BB program and then in a bit turn it over to someone who will cherish it, as he does. He knows that's not happening this year and that what happens this year on the court does not matter in the slightest - except to the extent that it to lays the ground work for future success. I agree, which is why I don't care where he sits or what he does. In the same way that if Lavin didn't suck so hard I wouldn't have cared what he wore or how much pasta he shoved in his fat face. 

Yeah I am sure he doesn't nor should he. I just don't want the criticism ball to get too much steam rolling down the hill before he can have some success. We both know if we struggle next year, more people will jump on the bandwagon against him.

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 03, 2016, 03:40:00 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 10:33:37 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 03, 2016, 10:08:00 AM

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 09:12:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2016, 11:35:31 PM

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I think it's a fair point that fans are generally not sure what Mullin does. He has his recruiters. He has in-game strategy. What does Mullin do?

I don't know what Mullin does or doesn't do and neither do you, because we only see him doing it 80 minutes out of the ten thousand minutes there are in a week. (How's my math bitches.) So far he's assembled a pretty good staff to whom he's delegated responsibility like a good CEO and he's closed the deal with some pretty high profile recruits and I hear he's installed a system of accountability designed to aid his tender charges become adults, which was something that the previous staff did not seem to care about particularly. I know that he goes to HS basketball games, which is something his predecessor also did not care to do. I do not know where he eats dinner and what kind of wine he likes and which movies he prefers, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know what sort of sweat suits he gets comped, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know whether his assistant coaches wear condoms or not when they hook up with random broads from Craig's List, which I know about the previous staff. I know that no one has to wipe gravy from Mitch Richmond's chin after the pre game meal, which I'm pretty sure someone had to from Mister Myagi's.

What I know especially is that Mullin has a reverence for the university and its traditions and place in the community that the former staff assuredly did not have and that he did not come here to disrespect that. That does not mean he won't fail, but at least he'll try, and I've already seen what happens when someone who doesn't give a shit about the university and doesn't flying #$%^ whether he succeeds comes here, and that is somewhere that I am overjoyed we are not at at present and so I'm willing to extend the greatest player in school history the benefit of at least 14 months doubt that he can be as successful at head coaching as he has been at everything else in basketball for half a century. As usual, YMMV.

+1000000 to this post.

Also, there are 525,600 minutes in a year.  How do you like MY math, bitch??  Or my knowledge of show tunes from RENT.  One of the two.

Speaking of show tunes, referring back to newsman's post: Father Harrington and Rob Wile were having an affair??!

Again I don't want to argue a side against the person I am rooting for but Mullin is only judged by those 80 minutes. No one knows who the best practice coach, player or anything is because they don't keep those stats. So those other 525,000 minutes are irrelevant.
I want Mullin to do well and I think he will. I do feel he needs to tighten up his perception as a coach until  he can start winning, which is going to take awhile. Why give critics any ammo? Get off the table and hold a clip board. Or don't. Doesn't matter to me but seems to matter to some.

The other minutes are irrelevant? That is complete non sense. The other minutes are what set the good programs apart. Recruiting, practicing, film breakdown and player development are what make teams great. I get what you are trying to say about perception but what happens in those other minutes dictates almost everything that happens in the games.

We both know if we struggle next year, more people will jump on the bandwagon against him.

And we both know that those people are either nice persons or professional malcontents. I won't start to worry until we've lost Baldi.

My rapidly aging fingers opt against me cutting and pasting retorts...so I'll take the lazy way out.

Sports Illustrated is an important publication.  It's just that they're shills not unlike ESPN, or even the NY Post.  Thus, whatever is between the glossy covers, has to be taken with a grain of salt.  One exception is the swimsuit issue.  Those pages always seem to get stuck together after a few goings over.  Krustynuts tells me nothing else in the magazine is worth getting excited over.

I'm counting real wins...not forfeited wins that St John's offered to cede to the whores at the NCAA.  The games were played and they had outcomes.  That's why we don't talk about Jarvis' "final four" year where Ohio State forfeited their game against us in the elite eight.  Right now, it's academic, especially since there are students at SJU who were just born when we were last relevant in the Jarvis years.

Again, most of the posters here love Mullin and want him to succeed.  Krusty and I would like him to get someone to teach this band of misfits how to defend...beyond leading the league in blocked shots.

Quote from: we are sju on March 03, 2016, 04:18:12 PM

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 03, 2016, 03:40:00 PM

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 10:33:37 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 03, 2016, 10:08:00 AM

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 09:12:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2016, 11:35:31 PM

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I think it's a fair point that fans are generally not sure what Mullin does. He has his recruiters. He has in-game strategy. What does Mullin do?

I don't know what Mullin does or doesn't do and neither do you, because we only see him doing it 80 minutes out of the ten thousand minutes there are in a week. (How's my math bitches.) So far he's assembled a pretty good staff to whom he's delegated responsibility like a good CEO and he's closed the deal with some pretty high profile recruits and I hear he's installed a system of accountability designed to aid his tender charges become adults, which was something that the previous staff did not seem to care about particularly. I know that he goes to HS basketball games, which is something his predecessor also did not care to do. I do not know where he eats dinner and what kind of wine he likes and which movies he prefers, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know what sort of sweat suits he gets comped, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know whether his assistant coaches wear condoms or not when they hook up with random broads from Craig's List, which I know about the previous staff. I know that no one has to wipe gravy from Mitch Richmond's chin after the pre game meal, which I'm pretty sure someone had to from Mister Myagi's.

What I know especially is that Mullin has a reverence for the university and its traditions and place in the community that the former staff assuredly did not have and that he did not come here to disrespect that. That does not mean he won't fail, but at least he'll try, and I've already seen what happens when someone who doesn't give a shit about the university and doesn't flying #$%^ whether he succeeds comes here, and that is somewhere that I am overjoyed we are not at at present and so I'm willing to extend the greatest player in school history the benefit of at least 14 months doubt that he can be as successful at head coaching as he has been at everything else in basketball for half a century. As usual, YMMV.

+1000000 to this post.

Also, there are 525,600 minutes in a year.  How do you like MY math, bitch??  Or my knowledge of show tunes from RENT.  One of the two.

Speaking of show tunes, referring back to newsman's post: Father Harrington and Rob Wile were having an affair??!

Again I don't want to argue a side against the person I am rooting for but Mullin is only judged by those 80 minutes. No one knows who the best practice coach, player or anything is because they don't keep those stats. So those other 525,000 minutes are irrelevant.
I want Mullin to do well and I think he will. I do feel he needs to tighten up his perception as a coach until  he can start winning, which is going to take awhile. Why give critics any ammo? Get off the table and hold a clip board. Or don't. Doesn't matter to me but seems to matter to some.

The other minutes are irrelevant? That is complete non sense. The other minutes are what set the good programs apart. Recruiting, practicing, film breakdown and player development are what make teams great. I get what you are trying to say about perception but what happens in those other minutes dictates almost everything that happens in the games.

Irrelevant to the argument. You can't quantify what he does outside of the 40 minutes he is judged on. I really want this to work out and all I am saying is to shut people up until we start winning, maybe he should tighten things up.  Look  I could care less but I understand that I would most likely react differently to some of the things if the coach wasn't Chris Mullin

Quote from: WillieG on March 02, 2016, 10:57:30 PM

Quote from: Dave on March 02, 2016, 10:39:45 PM

Quote from: WillieG on March 02, 2016, 10:06:39 PM

Forget everything about Willard.  He is a cheater.  Hiring Tiny was in clear violation of NCAA rules, which however, are written in such a way that you could never prove it.  The rule states that there cannot be quid pro quo.  In other words, the hiring cannot be contingent on the recruits commitment.  But since you could never prove that, unless the school was stupid enough to write the contingency into the contract, Willard can get away with it.  In the meantime his competitors for the recruiting haul get fired.  Namely Lavin.  I don't know how Willard can look at himself in the mirror.  You have to be a cheater to succeed around here.  Really sad.

And the guys team isn't even ranked even though he has all that talent.  He hasn't done jack.

I wouldn't call it cheating.

Yes Dave, it is cheating. IW's recruitment was cheating and then from there he got Carrington from us.  It's just that you could never prove it unless they were dumb enough to put it into the contract.  But the rules are very clear on this issue.  You can't hire the players high school coach, unless it has nothing to do with the recruits commitment.  But since we knew in the Fall that Tiny would be hired over the next summer, and he then was, we can conclude that Willard was cheating.

It's not against the rules. How is it cheating?

It's against the rules to hire a players high school coach on the condition that his player commits to you.  Tiny was even on record as saying he asked Lavin why he didn't have a spot for him on his roster. He was obviously shopping IW's commitment. We knew it nine months before he hired Tiny.  Then came the sham job posting in June.  Then the hiring of Tiny without any public announcement.  How is that not cheating? If you think that's not cheating, I have some swampland I want to sell you.  Tiny was wearing Seton Hall gear all during that season, several months before the job opening was even posted.  We all knew he would be hired nine months before.  How could you not think that is cheating?

Now you couldn't prove it unless the school was stupid enough to write the contingency into the contract, but come on, that's cheating.

Serious question.... once Whitehead was so good any many top teams wanting him, what motivatiion did Whitehead have to pick the school that would give Tiny Morton a job ?

Loyalty ? or fear that he could hurt his recruiting efforts to a school that did not have a spot for Tiny ?

Loyalty, comfort and taking care of a guy who him and his family are very close to.  And it was the ONLY reason he went to the Hall.

I was against Lavin hiring Tiny to get Morton.  Had Lavin agreed to do that, Whitehead would be playing for us right now.  Who knows if that would have saved Lavin's job - frankly I think Whitehead would have played for Chris Mullin based on some very public things he has said about our coach. 

Serious question.... once Whitehead was so good any many top teams wanting him, what motivatiion did Whitehead have to pick the school that would give Tiny Morton a job ?

Loyalty ? or fear that he could hurt his recruiting efforts to a school that did not have a spot for Tiny ?

I'm not sure I understand your question.  Maybe you could rewrite it.  He wanted to play for his high school coach and friend in college.  They made a package deal. It's common knowledge.  You just can't prove the illegality of it since they were not dumb enough to put it writing.

Loyalty, comfort and taking care of a guy who him and his family are very close to.  And it was the ONLY reason he went to the Hall.

I was against Lavin hiring Tiny to get Morton.  Had Lavin agreed to do that, Whitehead would be playing for us right now.  Who knows if that would have saved Lavin's job - frankly I think Whitehead would have played for Chris Mullin based on some very public things he has said about our coach.

Never heard that PR, could you post a link?  Timing is everything.  We need Rawle now.