Zach B SJU Recruiting Critique

Nice piece, but the title of the article is misleading it seems.  What is so controversial about bringing in transfers when you are trying to fill out a roster and have some semblance of balance?  Plenty of teams have been doing this.  Lavin was not really active, and that was definitely to a fault. 

We are still focusing on HS kids and NYC kids.  Several in the first class.  Several in this class (I count Ahmed as a NYC guy).  And focusing on several for 2017 and beyond.

Nice piece, but the title of the article is misleading it seems.  What is so controversial about bringing in transfers when you are trying to fill out a roster and have some semblance of balance?  Plenty of teams have been doing this.  Lavin was not really active, and that was definitely to a fault. 

We are still focusing on HS kids and NYC kids.  Several in the first class.  Several in this class (I count Ahmed as a NYC guy).  And focusing on several for 2017 and beyond.

Because some fans raised concerns with him re: going transfer route. NIce to have three great articles on the program from Braziller this week.

Nice piece, but the title of the article is misleading it seems.  What is so controversial about bringing in transfers when you are trying to fill out a roster and have some semblance of balance?  Plenty of teams have been doing this.  Lavin was not really active, and that was definitely to a fault. 

We are still focusing on HS kids and NYC kids.  Several in the first class.  Several in this class (I count Ahmed as a NYC guy).  And focusing on several for 2017 and beyond.

As we have bantered about it on these sites, Zach B addressed it in the article as did the staff.  I personally don't see anything controversial, but the message board fodder here says otherwise.  I think it's a great route for us to go, recruiting transfers that fit the mold.

You guys do know the author of piece does not necessarily create the title.

Some will criticize taking transfers and international players because there are a lot of very talented players in 2017 class in NY and NJ but right now it is tough for us to compete for those guys. There are not that many top players who can see past the 8 wins last season. Ponds did it but that is more the exception then the rule. Also to be fair we weren't going up against the blue bloods for Ponds like we would be for some of these 2017 guys. We have to win first and then those types of players will come, I have a strong belief in that. This season we will have a nice turn around and the season after we should be very good. After a couple winning seasons we will have those top rated local and even non local targets looking at us much more seriously. I also really like transfers because we two hall of famers on our staff who I think with a year to work with these guys can mold them into more effective and well rounded players. The top high school players will come but you need to win first and it starts this season.

I thought it was a fair, objective article. The transfers are balancing out the scholarship distribution, which has been whacked out since Norm had 7-8 seniors on the 2011 team. Lavin committed the same sin two years ago when Chris had to start from scratch.

As Zach points out, transfers, JUCOs and internationals are nothing new to St Johns. In the long run, it will put us in a better position in the future. So does winning. When we start winning, you can start to seriously recruit the 5-star, one-and-done, type of player.

A month ago fans of Christian Jones and amar didn't want them to leave. I assume everyone is happy now with Simon and Clark. My understanding is we have one scholarship for next year. In my opinion, we are going to have a crowded back court next year. Either Mussini or Ellison will be left out. The loser of that battle could open another scholarship. Or both could improve and we have 2 junior big east guards.
This roster looks great. Staff has done an amazing job putting it together. 

A month ago fans of Christian Jones and amar didn't want them to leave. I assume everyone is happy now with Simon and Clark. My understanding is we have one scholarship for next year. In my opinion, we are going to have a crowded back court next year. Either Mussini or Ellison will be left out. The loser of that battle could open another scholarship. Or both could improve and we have 2 junior big east guards.
This roster looks great. Staff has done an amazing job putting it together. 

The way college ball is today someone from this roster today will not be here next year. That is just the way it works now, we will probably have at least two open spots next year.

Some fans are saying that we should go after the best NY players of each class. Of course.

And this staff is doing it (Alkins, Ponds, Bamba, Diallo, Tucker).

But why not the NY players ranked between 100-150, more or less? Former players like Billy Singleton, Tyrone Grant, David Cain are good examples.

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 23, 2016, 09:06:03 AM

A month ago fans of Christian Jones and amar didn't want them to leave. I assume everyone is happy now with Simon and Clark. My understanding is we have one scholarship for next year. In my opinion, we are going to have a crowded back court next year. Either Mussini or Ellison will be left out. The loser of that battle could open another scholarship. Or both could improve and we have 2 junior big east guards.
This roster looks great. Staff has done an amazing job putting it together. 

The way college ball is today someone from this roster today will not be here next year. That is just the way it works now, we will probably have at least two open spots next year.

Yup

You guys do know the author of piece does not necessarily create the title.

At the end of the day, this is the NY Post. Not the NY Times. We should keep that in mind. There is no controversy here, but that might encourage the average reader to read it, because it presents the story like more shit from the program that loves to go through a lot of unexpected controversial shit.

The leap taken here is only that some programs do not try to rebuild with transfers, but we are. That's all. They're are creating controversy where there is actually zero controversy. Just one way to go about things, which really isn't all that different than what many other schools in our position would try to do.

I thought the article was going to be more about Livingston and his cop punching, but from everything I've read about him, his situation isn't an example of him being a thug, just a kid who didn't take his meds. Maybe he skips his meds when we go to visit SU in the fall?

Some fans are saying that we should go after the best NY players of each class. Of course.

And this staff is doing it (Alkins, Ponds, Bamba, Diallo, Tucker).

But why not the NY players ranked between 100-150, more or less? Former players like Billy Singleton, Tyrone Grant, David Cain are good examples.

I think it would be great to add sleeper point guard like Cain who can sit and learn. (But if I recall, the great David Cain was considered a very good good recruit even in the old BE.

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 23, 2016, 09:06:03 AM

A month ago fans of Christian Jones and amar didn't want them to leave. I assume everyone is happy now with Simon and Clark. My understanding is we have one scholarship for next year. In my opinion, we are going to have a crowded back court next year. Either Mussini or Ellison will be left out. The loser of that battle could open another scholarship. Or both could improve and we have 2 junior big east guards.
This roster looks great. Staff has done an amazing job putting it together. 

The way college ball is today someone from this roster today will not be here next year. That is just the way it works now, we will probably have at least two open spots next year.

Ellison and Mussini are top candidates IMO. They need to really step up their games. If Ellison does, then we don't need Tucker as badly as we might now.

Some fans are saying that we should go after the best NY players of each class. Of course.

And this staff is doing it (Alkins, Ponds, Bamba, Diallo, Tucker).

But why not the NY players ranked between 100-150, more or less? Former players like Billy Singleton, Tyrone Grant, David Cain are good examples.

Agree!!

Quote from: Wods317 on April 23, 2016, 09:24:03 AM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 23, 2016, 09:06:03 AM

A month ago fans of Christian Jones and amar didn't want them to leave. I assume everyone is happy now with Simon and Clark. My understanding is we have one scholarship for next year. In my opinion, we are going to have a crowded back court next year. Either Mussini or Ellison will be left out. The loser of that battle could open another scholarship. Or both could improve and we have 2 junior big east guards.
This roster looks great. Staff has done an amazing job putting it together. 

The way college ball is today someone from this roster today will not be here next year. That is just the way it works now, we will probably have at least two open spots next year.

Ellison and Mussini are top candidates IMO. They need to really step up their games. If Ellison does, then we don't need Tucker as badly as we might now.

I think Ellison will surprise a lot of people next year. IMO he will benefit from a real PG and another scoring guard significantly more than Mussini. His 3 pt shooting got way better towards the end of the year and his size and speed off the bounce have always been there, it's just the finishing and decision making that were lacking.

If you think about Elllison, actually, he missed a lot of time in HS, and last season as a Frosh.  He has good pedigree as his dad was a big player.  So I definitely have not given up on him yet.  I wish I was so hopeful about Mussini though.  I see him as a bit role player in the Big East, at best.  If Ellison could stay away from injuries, I think he could develop.

If you think about Elllison, actually, he missed a lot of time in HS, and last season as a Frosh.  He has good pedigree as his dad was a big player.  So I definitely have not given up on him yet.  I wish I was so hopeful about Mussini though.  I see him as a bit role player in the Big East, at best.  If Ellison could stay away from injuries, I think he could develop.

I'd like to see Ellison take a redshirt after next season. Nothing it is in his best interest and our's to take an extra year to work on his body and his quickness/explosiveness.

Quote from: WillieG on April 23, 2016, 08:52:15 PM

If you think about Elllison, actually, he missed a lot of time in HS, and last season as a Frosh.  He has good pedigree as his dad was a big player.  So I definitely have not given up on him yet.  I wish I was so hopeful about Mussini though.  I see him as a bit role player in the Big East, at best.  If Ellison could stay away from injuries, I think he could develop.

I'd like to see Ellison take a redshirt after next season. Nothing it is in his best interest and our's to take an extra year to work on his body and his quickness/explosiveness.

Marillac and red shirting.
Match made in heaven

If you think about Elllison, actually, he missed a lot of time in HS, and last season as a Frosh.  He has good pedigree as his dad was a big player.  So I definitely have not given up on him yet.  I wish I was so hopeful about Mussini though.  I see him as a bit role player in the Big East, at best.  If Ellison could stay away from injuries, I think he could develop.

He doesn't have a pedigree that translates to anything we can actually see. He doesn't play a smart brand of basketball. He was a better point guard than Mussini. So was David Lipscomb.

Like Mussini, he has a ton of work to do. Instead of redshirting, why doesn't he tow the line now? Get to the gym, lift like hell. Work on your game. Play organized ball. His dad was lit for his entire career and we saw how that worked out. All eyes are on Ellison and Mussini. Reinforcements are coming for their jobs, and they've got a year to keep them. It starts now. Actually, it started in March.