Game 4: Michigan State Game Discussion

This is not gym class where everybody gets to play.  Think we have to shorten our rotation to best 8 guys.  Let them play long enough to get into an offensive rhythm and don't yank Mussini in and out.

We should probably be playing 4 smalls and 1 big and be trying to play faster.  Amar and Williams should never see the court.  We clearly are not as deep as we thought we were after the first 2 games against inferior competition.  Against real teams, have to stick with the guys who give us a chance to win.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on November 23, 2016, 10:41:40 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on November 23, 2016, 10:37:18 PM

Our Floor general is Lovett, but he is a score first guard.  He is averaging 5 assists a game and that should be 7-8 if we had bigs who can score.  We don't have a guy to lean on, we are 349th out 350 NCAA schools in experience and glue guy, none yet.  However, Mullin had to bring in scorers this year, which he did.  Next year he has Simon who can play with the 3 guard set, a tall guard who can defend the one and two.  If I had to pick a glue guy, it would be Ahmed, but again, he needs to be a scorer first. 

I go back to watching pointer play.  For 3 years, couldn't throw the ball in the ocean but he wanted to be the best defender on court at all times. We are missing that, but again, he had scorers and I go back to the fact that we needed scoring first.  Scoring wins in College Basketball.  The best teams win in the tourney that can score.  The defense will have to catch up, offense is always a step ahead, especially with young players.  Mullin's first two years, he needs to build an identity with these players.  Year one is was building a team, year two is establishing a competitive team.  Year 3, 4 and beyond, will create his identity as a coach and team.

Ahmed needs to get his head of his arse asap. Another guy who should be way further ahead than he is imo

Ahmed is either going to learn real fast, that he needs to change his habits or he will be spending a lot of time on the bench.  However, I like the way he plays, hes tough and works hard.  He has to break bad habits that I am sure never got corrected on the juco level.   We saw tonight what a difference he makes in a game when on the court.  He hit 2 threes to start and the team really fed off that, when we were up.  However his fouls got the best of him and then we went cold.  He is the 3rd scorer this team desperately needs, he just has to learn to play within the game,

He needs to do a lot more than shoot 3s...we need a guy who can go get a bucket (an easy one) when one is needed most...he doesn't see to be able to finish...He is a better outside shooter than Durand Johnson but unfortunately looks just as out of control on his drives as Johnson did

I think our weakness on the front line has been exposed as we play major teams.  We also have to cut minutes of Ponds and Lovell or we will have tired players by time BE starts as with Mussini last year.

I think our weakness on the front line has been exposed as we play major teams.  We also have to cut minutes of Ponds and Lovell or we will have tired players by time BE starts as with Mussini last year.

Cutting the minutes of ponds and Lovett may be a smart thing to do. But we won't beat Fordham if those guys aren't playing 30 plus minutes. Think Ahmed has to play 30 also.

Many of the concerns can be coached up, but the honest question is will they be?  Gotta say when I see the young kid drawing up plays it does beg some questions.  I believe we need a Mike Dunlap type if Mullin is to succeed.

Mark my words Michigan St will be right there to win the Big 10.  Tom Izzo  puts this game plan in every year.  I mean what nut schedules Arizona and Kentucky to open the season then plays a solid FGCU team then goes to the Bahamas where you have I think 4 teams maybe more who will be in the NCAA.  They were pre-season ranked the highest among Big 10 teams for a reason.  There is no shame in losing to Michigan St.  SJU is not as good as Michigan St.

This is a difficult schedule.  VCU is a top tier A 10 program who had Baylor on the ropes. 

If Chris and his staff do there job this team may take some lumps early but they should be ready to surprise by conference season.

Quote from: rdstr25 on November 23, 2016, 10:48:40 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on November 23, 2016, 10:41:40 PM

Quote from: rdstr25 on November 23, 2016, 10:37:18 PM

Our Floor general is Lovett, but he is a score first guard.  He is averaging 5 assists a game and that should be 7-8 if we had bigs who can score.  We don't have a guy to lean on, we are 349th out 350 NCAA schools in experience and glue guy, none yet.  However, Mullin had to bring in scorers this year, which he did.  Next year he has Simon who can play with the 3 guard set, a tall guard who can defend the one and two.  If I had to pick a glue guy, it would be Ahmed, but again, he needs to be a scorer first. 

I go back to watching pointer play.  For 3 years, couldn't throw the ball in the ocean but he wanted to be the best defender on court at all times. We are missing that, but again, he had scorers and I go back to the fact that we needed scoring first.  Scoring wins in College Basketball.  The best teams win in the tourney that can score.  The defense will have to catch up, offense is always a step ahead, especially with young players.  Mullin's first two years, he needs to build an identity with these players.  Year one is was building a team, year two is establishing a competitive team.  Year 3, 4 and beyond, will create his identity as a coach and team.

Ahmed needs to get his head of his arse asap. Another guy who should be way further ahead than he is imo

Ahmed is either going to learn real fast, that he needs to change his habits or he will be spending a lot of time on the bench.  However, I like the way he plays, hes tough and works hard.  He has to break bad habits that I am sure never got corrected on the juco level.   We saw tonight what a difference he makes in a game when on the court.  He hit 2 threes to start and the team really fed off that, when we were up.  However his fouls got the best of him and then we went cold.  He is the 3rd scorer this team desperately needs, he just has to learn to play within the game,

He needs to do a lot more than shoot 3s...we need a guy who can go get a bucket (an easy one) when one is needed most...he doesn't see to be able to finish...He is a better outside shooter than Durand Johnson but unfortunately looks just as out of control on his drives as Johnson did

Far better player than D Johnson IMO.  Ahmed just has to learn to play to his strengths while learning a little bit more of a finesse game.  That will come along with better decision making.   

I am more encouraged than discouraged by these couple losses. Aside from atrocious transition D against minnesota and a tough night shooting against michigan st, we have a LOT of good players to work with. Ahmed has relentless energy--which is good but it has led to way too many fouls. Ponds struggled but I am not worried about him at all. Team chemistry is solid. By far my biggest concern was our ability to rebound against those Michigan St bigs.. Sima, Yakwe and Owens are great shot blockers but still VERY raw.

Michigan State recap: http://www.bigeastboards.com/

Mark my words Michigan St will be right there to win the Big 10.  Tom Izzo  puts this game plan in every year.  I mean what nut schedules Arizona and Kentucky to open the season then plays a solid FGCU team included by the Bahamas where you have I think 4 teams maybe more who will be in the NCAA.  They were pre-season ranked the highest among Big 10 teams for a reason.  There is no shame in losing to Michigan St.  SJU is not as good as Michigan St.

This is a difficult schedule.  VCU is a top tier A 10 program who had Baylor on the ropes. 

If Chris and his staff do there job this team may take some lumps early but they should be ready to surprise by conference season.

Correction, fordham....  Actually, they didn't schedule either Arizona or Kentucky.  They were, more so, selected to play those teams.  Nevertheless, I'm not sweating losing to Michigan State, although they were there for the taking, last night.  I have a good idea Izzo will be in the race for a Big 10 title, and receive a 20th consecutive NCAA Tournament bid.  I wouldn't bet against this guy.  He's also a heckuva tournament coach (last season tournament results, notwithstanding).

I've said it a few times, and will say it again....  We'll probably win a few games or so, based on the talent of LoVett and Ponds.  They'll get hot, and the opposition just won't have an answer for 'em.  I'm just kinda leery about our style of play at the moment, which has been expounded by a few posters, including myself.  Hopefully, as the season progresses the style of play is "reeled in," per se', and a few players up their games.

Ahmed has relentless energy--which is good but it has led to way too many fouls.

I love his energy, too.  But, I haven't liked what I've seen from him the past couple games.  He's giving me flashbacks of Zendon Hamilton by engulfing the basketball, once he touches it.  Too much iso/one-on-one stuff for my taste.

Quote from: redmenfan on November 24, 2016, 11:01:13 AM

No way should Sima and Yakwe be on floor same time that is playing 3 against 5 on offense

Agree that can't happen for large stretches of the game. Bashir needs to move to the 4 and Ellison or Mussini need to be on the floor too and hope their offense makes up for losing height

Quote from: fordham96 on November 24, 2016, 12:44:43 PM

Mark my words Michigan St will be right there to win the Big 10.  Tom Izzo  puts this game plan in every year.  I mean what nut schedules Arizona and Kentucky to open the season then plays a solid FGCU team included by the Bahamas where you have I think 4 teams maybe more who will be in the NCAA.  They were pre-season ranked the highest among Big 10 teams for a reason.  There is no shame in losing to Michigan St.  SJU is not as good as Michigan St.

This is a difficult schedule.  VCU is a top tier A 10 program who had Baylor on the ropes. 

If Chris and his staff do there job this team may take some lumps early but they should be ready to surprise by conference season.

Correction, fordham....  Actually, they didn't schedule either Arizona or Kentucky.  They were, more so, selected to play those teams.  Nevertheless, I'm not sweating losing to Michigan State, although they were there for the taking, last night.  I have a good idea Izzo will be in the race for a Big 10 title, and receive a 20th consecutive NCAA Tournament bid.  I wouldn't bet against this guy.  He's also a heckuva tournament coach (last season tournament results, notwithstanding).

I've said it a few times, and will say it again....  We'll probably win a few games or so, based on the talent of LoVett and Ponds.  They'll get hot, and the opposition just won't have an answer for 'em.  I'm just kinda leery about our style of play at the moment, which has been expounded by a few posters, including myself.  Hopefully, as the season progresses the style of play is "reeled in," per se', and a few players up their games.

The opponents were not handpicked but mind you participating in those two opening games is a choice.  And they know the opponent is not going to be the Sisters of the Poor.  That was my larger point.  They may not have directly scheduled those two but either way the opponents were going to be big time.  The Champions Classic does not pit Michigan St vs Bethune Cookman to put it another way.

Baylor up 20 over MSU with 2:46 left

Quote from: mjdinkins on November 24, 2016, 01:00:48 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on November 24, 2016, 12:44:43 PM

Mark my words Michigan St will be right there to win the Big 10.  Tom Izzo  puts this game plan in every year.  I mean what nut schedules Arizona and Kentucky to open the season then plays a solid FGCU team included by the Bahamas where you have I think 4 teams maybe more who will be in the NCAA.  They were pre-season ranked the highest among Big 10 teams for a reason.  There is no shame in losing to Michigan St.  SJU is not as good as Michigan St.

This is a difficult schedule.  VCU is a top tier A 10 program who had Baylor on the ropes. 

If Chris and his staff do there job this team may take some lumps early but they should be ready to surprise by conference season.

Correction, fordham....  Actually, they didn't schedule either Arizona or Kentucky.  They were, more so, selected to play those teams.  Nevertheless, I'm not sweating losing to Michigan State, although they were there for the taking, last night.  I have a good idea Izzo will be in the race for a Big 10 title, and receive a 20th consecutive NCAA Tournament bid.  I wouldn't bet against this guy.  He's also a heckuva tournament coach (last season tournament results, notwithstanding).

I've said it a few times, and will say it again....  We'll probably win a few games or so, based on the talent of LoVett and Ponds.  They'll get hot, and the opposition just won't have an answer for 'em.  I'm just kinda leery about our style of play at the moment, which has been expounded by a few posters, including myself.  Hopefully, as the season progresses the style of play is "reeled in," per se', and a few players up their games.

The opponents were not handpicked but mind you participating in those two opening games is a choice.  And they know the opponent is not going to be the Sisters of the Poor.  That was my larger point.  They may not have directly scheduled those two but either way the opponents were going to be big time.  The Champions Classic does not pit Michigan St vs Bethune Cookman to put it another way.

They were still, more so, selected based on their history of winning.  I doubt Izzo, or his team, would shy away from such tough games.  It doesn't seem like his or his team's M.O.

Mark my words Michigan St will be right there to win the Big 10.  Tom Izzo  puts this game plan in every year.  I mean what nut schedules Arizona and Kentucky to open the season then plays a solid FGCU team then goes to the Bahamas where you have I think 4 teams maybe more who will be in the NCAA.  They were pre-season ranked the highest among Big 10 teams for a reason.  There is no shame in losing to Michigan St.  SJU is not as good as Michigan St.

This is a difficult schedule.  VCU is a top tier A 10 program who had Baylor on the ropes. 

If Chris and his staff do there job this team may take some lumps early but they should be ready to surprise by conference season.

Michigan State will be there. What a bold prediction.

Atlantis is large.  It's about a 25 minute walk from a restaurant at Reef or Cove to the basketball court.  I willingly stumbled away from Cappucciono, port and flambe in order to make tipoff.  You guys would have so been proud of me.

The Johnny pre-game reception was fun.  Scenic, tropical outdoor venue; Makers Mark, carving stations, etc. Chris and much of the staff attended.  I tried to find our own Nc by introducing myself to anybody wearing red and even went up to two guys who looked like they might have a literary style similar to Nc's but to no avail.  I guess we needed name tags.

I thought our crowd was loud and made a respectable showing considering they were badly outnumbered by green and white.

Reports read here that Msu was small and had a weak front line were inaccurate.  Certainly bigger and stronger than our guys and the Wolverine offensive line.  22 Bridges dominated the whole game and 44 Ward did so late.  We lead early...down 3 at the half...and down 2 with 8 left.  Probably unrealistic to hope for more than that.

Bashir is not shy.  Shot every time he got the ball. His two threes early were a good jump start.  Marcus was once again our best player but played a lot of minutes, 38, for the first of a three day stint.