What We Learned In Atlantis

Not a huge Ellison fan. But he is a big east body. I am sure the Italian will go off vs deleware state. But we don't play in the SWAC.

I still feel most confident in Mussini shooting the ball. He can be a positive contributor but think there needs to be some adjustments made to allow him to get looks while Lovett and Ponds are also on the floor.

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

He can't guard anyone and has displayed a very low ball IQ and lack of focus too often. I've never seen someone get behind the defense on a break and not look for the ball 10 feet from the basket like he did against ODU. Ponds dropped him a perfect pass and then threw his hands up and screamed "what the  f*ck" when he never turned around.

It's a shame because the kid has the size, skill, and arguably the athletic ability to be on the NBA radar if he would keep improving. Several teammates have gotten into it with him this year.

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 09:05:59 AM

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

He can't guard anyone and has displayed a very low ball IQ and lack of focus too often. I've never seen someone get behind the defense on a break and not look for the ball 10 feet from the basket like he did against ODU. Ponds dropped him a perfect pass and then threw his hands up and screamed "what the  f*ck" when he never turned around.

It's a shame because the kid has the size, skill, and arguably the athletic ability to be on the NBA radar if he would keep improving. Several teammates have gotten into it with him this year.

I just think everyone is magnifying things a bit. I agree with you it was a bad play but I'm not ready to dismiss a player due to some sloppy play in November.

I definitely question the scheduling decision...this team needed time to gel with cupcakes, now they played in Atlantis, lost every game, and are moving towards Big East play where every team is good sans DePaul and St. John's.

I definitely question the scheduling decision...this team needed time to gel with cupcakes, now they played in Atlantis, lost every game, and are moving towards Big East play where every team is good sans DePaul and St. John's.

Those games were scheduled a year in advance, as the team was invited to participate to play in Atlantis.  The Minnesota game was part of the "Gavitt Tipoff Games" featuring the Big East vs. Big 10. 

Again, I don't mind playing tough teams.  You may gain confidence against cupcakes, but you could also get a false sense of who you are, and continue to play with bad habits.  The bad habits (players and coaches) was exposed in our losing streak, so let's see if those habits will be honed in moving forward.

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

If you want to throw KenPom stats at us, it's worth mentioning his offensive rating is 85.6 which is horrendous.

Maybe this was just a bad stretch and he will turn it around but I find that hard to believe. I think the staff has known for quite some time now that he's not good as evidenced by his lack of playing time. He got 11 minutes against Minnesota and no more than 21 in a game in Atlantis. If they thought this 6-6 guy with "point guard skills" was helping the team he'd be getting more minutes

Quote from: Dan on November 27, 2016, 11:09:20 AM

I definitely question the scheduling decision...this team needed time to gel with cupcakes, now they played in Atlantis, lost every game, and are moving towards Big East play where every team is good sans DePaul and St. John's.

Those games were scheduled a year in advance, as the team was invited to participate to play in Atlantis.  The Minnesota game was part of the "Gavitt Tipoff Games" featuring the Big East vs. Big 10. 

Again, I don't mind playing tough teams.  You may gain confidence against cupcakes, but you could also get a false sense of who you are, and continue to play with bad habits.  The bad habits (players and coaches) was exposed in our losing streak, so let's see if those habits will be honed in moving forward.

Agreed. Those tough early season games can be a good thing as long as the players and coaches learn from their mistakes and correct them going forward. If they continue to repeat the same mistakes in Jan and Feb then there is a much bigger issue.

we have spent so many years complaining about cream puff schedules early season that even though I can see the point that maybe this years schedule isnt ideal for this young team I cant knock our staff for this schedule. If we end up sub 15 wins this year I do think next year it might be more optimal to have a slightly easier schedule before big east play but I'm not going to kill this staff or any other for having a really tough schedule.  The important thing is learning from your mistakes and weaknesses relative to the higher level of competetion and hopefully using that to help us come conference play

I don't think the schedule was that hard. We got Matched up vs a bottom team from big 10 in the challenge. Michigan state sounded daunting, but they were beatable. VCU a decent team but wouldn't be .500 in the big east . Old dominion not horrible, but not good either .

That is true - not a cupcake schedule but we also weren't playing Duke and Kentucky.

That is true - not a cupcake schedule but we also weren't playing Duke and Kentucky.

By the end of January, we will have played Minnesota, Michigan State, VCU and Syracuse. That's enough.

I don't think the schedule was that hard. We got Matched up vs a bottom team from big 10 in the challenge. Michigan state sounded daunting, but they were beatable. VCU a decent team but wouldn't be .500 in the big east . Old dominion not horrible, but not good either .

that's also though because we ended up in the loser bracket each round of Atlantis so I'm assuming if we won 1 or both of the 1st 2 games our SOS might be decently higher but overall that was a very good tournament for quality of teams.

Didn't one of the publications have our non-conference ranked as one of the toughest in the country?

I don't think the schedule was that hard. We got Matched up vs a bottom team from big 10 in the challenge. Michigan state sounded daunting, but they were beatable. VCU a decent team but wouldn't be .500 in the big east . Old dominion not horrible, but not good either .

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 09:05:59 AM

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

If you want to throw KenPom stats at us, it's worth mentioning his offensive rating is 85.6 which is horrendous.

Maybe this was just a bad stretch and he will turn it around but I find that hard to believe. I think the staff has known for quite some time now that he's not good as evidenced by his lack of playing time. He got 11 minutes against Minnesota and no more than 21 in a game in Atlantis. If they thought this 6-6 guy with "point guard skills" was helping the team he'd be getting more minutes

Minutes per game:

Bash 21.7
Mussini 18.8
Ellison 17.3

Things have been pretty balanced outside of Lovett and Ponds. Again 6 games.

I don't think the schedule was that hard. We got Matched up vs a bottom team from big 10 in the challenge. Michigan state sounded daunting, but they were beatable. VCU a decent team but wouldn't be .500 in the big east . Old dominion not horrible, but not good either .

I think all 4 losses could have been wins. Obviously they weren't but would like to see how team responds back home.

Quote from: goredmen on November 27, 2016, 12:09:29 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 09:05:59 AM

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

If you want to throw KenPom stats at us, it's worth mentioning his offensive rating is 85.6 which is horrendous.

Maybe this was just a bad stretch and he will turn it around but I find that hard to believe. I think the staff has known for quite some time now that he's not good as evidenced by his lack of playing time. He got 11 minutes against Minnesota and no more than 21 in a game in Atlantis. If they thought this 6-6 guy with "point guard skills" was helping the team he'd be getting more minutes

Minutes per game:

Bash 21.7
Mussini 18.8
Ellison 17.3

Things have been pretty balanced outside of Lovett and Ponds. Again 6 games.

A 6-6 athletic kid with PG skills that could guard 1-3 on opposing teams should be getting a ton more minutes per game than an undersized guard who can only shoot and can't guard a fire hydrant.

Also, Bash's minutes in the Atlantis games were partially limited because of the foul trouble he was in

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 11:08:35 PM

Quote from: goredmen on November 27, 2016, 12:09:29 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 09:05:59 AM

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

If you want to throw KenPom stats at us, it's worth mentioning his offensive rating is 85.6 which is horrendous.

Maybe this was just a bad stretch and he will turn it around but I find that hard to believe. I think the staff has known for quite some time now that he's not good as evidenced by his lack of playing time. He got 11 minutes against Minnesota and no more than 21 in a game in Atlantis. If they thought this 6-6 guy with "point guard skills" was helping the team he'd be getting more minutes

Minutes per game:

Bash 21.7
Mussini 18.8
Ellison 17.3

Things have been pretty balanced outside of Lovett and Ponds. Again 6 games.

A 6-6 athletic kid with PG skills that could guard 1-3 on opposing teams should be getting a ton more minutes per game than an undersized guard who can only shoot and can't guard a fire hydrant.

Also, Bash's minutes in the Atlantis games were partially limited because of the foul trouble he was in

Mussini can't guard anyone, but Ellison doesn't guard anyone. It looks like he's not interested in defense. Hard to argue in favor of giving him more time when he's played so poorly so far.

Quote from: goredmen on November 27, 2016, 11:21:57 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 11:08:35 PM

Quote from: goredmen on November 27, 2016, 12:09:29 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 09:05:59 AM

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

If you want to throw KenPom stats at us, it's worth mentioning his offensive rating is 85.6 which is horrendous.

Maybe this was just a bad stretch and he will turn it around but I find that hard to believe. I think the staff has known for quite some time now that he's not good as evidenced by his lack of playing time. He got 11 minutes against Minnesota and no more than 21 in a game in Atlantis. If they thought this 6-6 guy with "point guard skills" was helping the team he'd be getting more minutes

Minutes per game:

Bash 21.7
Mussini 18.8
Ellison 17.3

Things have been pretty balanced outside of Lovett and Ponds. Again 6 games.

A 6-6 athletic kid with PG skills that could guard 1-3 on opposing teams should be getting a ton more minutes per game than an undersized guard who can only shoot and can't guard a fire hydrant.

Also, Bash's minutes in the Atlantis games were partially limited because of the foul trouble he was in

Mussini can't guard anyone, but Ellison doesn't guard anyone. It looks like he's not interested in defense. Hard to argue in favor of giving him more time when he's played so poorly so far.

I should have added "if that 6-6 kid is good" to the end of that, which we and the staff see he's not

Quote from: Poison on November 27, 2016, 11:51:34 PM

Quote from: goredmen on November 27, 2016, 11:21:57 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 11:08:35 PM

Quote from: goredmen on November 27, 2016, 12:09:29 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 27, 2016, 09:05:59 AM

Quote from: longtimefan on November 27, 2016, 08:51:57 AM

Very good post goredmen. Ellison is atrocious and needs to sit. I agree that Freudenberg has been playing tentative, but I would still like to see him get all of Ellison's minutes. He has a better understanding of the game now than Ellison will ever have. Also he is one of the few players who is not always looking for his own shot. He plays team basketball, moves the basketball well, and rarely tries to go one on one. He is being asked to play out of position at the 4. He does not have the strength to defend that position. He should be backing up Ahmed at the 3.

FYI Ellison is 2nd most efficient passer on the team (assists per minute). I think if Ellison made 5 more shots people would be asking for him to play more.

To reiterate I think he's played poorly over the first 6 games but I think it's entirely too early to make judgements on any of the guys.

If you want to throw KenPom stats at us, it's worth mentioning his offensive rating is 85.6 which is horrendous.

Maybe this was just a bad stretch and he will turn it around but I find that hard to believe. I think the staff has known for quite some time now that he's not good as evidenced by his lack of playing time. He got 11 minutes against Minnesota and no more than 21 in a game in Atlantis. If they thought this 6-6 guy with "point guard skills" was helping the team he'd be getting more minutes

Minutes per game:

Bash 21.7
Mussini 18.8
Ellison 17.3

Things have been pretty balanced outside of Lovett and Ponds. Again 6 games.

A 6-6 athletic kid with PG skills that could guard 1-3 on opposing teams should be getting a ton more minutes per game than an undersized guard who can only shoot and can't guard a fire hydrant.

Also, Bash's minutes in the Atlantis games were partially limited because of the foul trouble he was in

Mussini can't guard anyone, but Ellison doesn't guard anyone. It looks like he's not interested in defense. Hard to argue in favor of giving him more time when he's played so poorly so far.

I should have added "if that 6-6 kid is good" to the end of that, which we and the staff see he's not

It really makes you wonder what these kids were working on over the summer to improve their games. We can see that they're stronger, but there isn't one returning player who has improved their defense or added a single offensive element to their game. Yakwe and Ellison are the most disappointing. I wasn't expecting much from Mussini or Sima this year.