What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?

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nudginator59

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In a perfect world both would happen simultaneously, but what is the most important factor for SJU to have sustained success? The revolving door of coaches since coach Carnessecca has left this program without an identity. IMO changing of the name has left this program traditionalist.

I believe that Coach Mullin was brought here to not only to build, and stabilize the program, but to (eat some berries!) member and link the glory days of SJU basketball to the present.

 What is the biggest priority? Show that he's a really good coach that can bring  players to their full potential, or bring in as much talent as possible that will lead to wins and bring in more talent, and then figure out the X's and O's stuff?
Cougar O' Malley

Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 12:54:08 AM »
Chris Mullin knows how to play basketball. Needs  to learn how to teach. First class turn Yakwe into a rebounding machine before the end of year. Teach Ahmed to drive to the hoop without making a turnover. Make the guards pass the ball three times before a shot. Not bite on a jump fakes . Believe in themselves.

SJUFAN

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 01:34:55 AM »
Chris Mullin knows how to play basketball. Needs  to learn how to teach. First class turn Yakwe into a rebounding machine before the end of year. Teach Ahmed to drive to the hoop without making a turnover. Make the guards pass the ball three times before a shot. Not bite on a jump fakes . Believe in themselves.


Yakwe needed to sit on the bench for a couple years and learn from upper classmen. That is the problem the problem. Mullin needs to focus on  bringing in better players and in time we wouldn't need to rely so heavily on young players unless their talent warrants it.

Poison

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2017, 02:03:15 AM »
Chris Mullin knows how to play basketball. Needs  to learn how to teach. First class turn Yakwe into a rebounding machine before the end of year. Teach Ahmed to drive to the hoop without making a turnover. Make the guards pass the ball three times before a shot. Not bite on a jump fakes . Believe in themselves.


Yakwe needed to sit on the bench for a couple years and learn from upper classmen. That is the problem the problem. Mullin needs to focus on  bringing in better players and in time we wouldn't need to rely so heavily on young players unless their talent warrants it.

Yakwe was a 4 star top 100 recruit. By now, he should be pretty good. This is his sophomore season. By now he should have some idea regarding what's he's supposed to do. He's gone from a guy many of us thought would be All BE to a guy who seems to have no idea how to play organized basketball. There were 4 returning sophomores from last year's team. I wasn't expecting a tourney bid this year, but so far it looks like only 1/4 of our freshman recruits from last year are improving. Mussini is exactly the same. Yakwe is lost, and when Sima had enough of getting yelled at for not playing hard or not paying attention, he quit.

goredmen

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2017, 02:19:33 AM »

 What is the biggest priority? Show that he's a really good coach that can bring  players to their full potential, or bring in as much talent as possible that will lead to wins and bring in more talent, and then figure out the X's and O's stuff?

Lavin tried the latter of that both here and at UCLA and it didn't work for him. If you have a clueless Xs and Os guy your team will always underachieve no matter how much talent you have.

What we need is a coach that knows how to develop players and build and maintain a program. Within our own conference we see programs like Villanova, Xavier and Butler that are consistently good because they bring in solid 4 year guys that they develop into good to great players and when those players leave there are always guys already in the program ready to step in and replace them. This is what we have to do to win because we will never be a Kentucky, Duke or Kansas that can reload with elite freshman every year

Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 08:34:08 AM »
I think that is why we have to patient with Mullin.  Next year will be his first where he is not counting on freshman to carry the team.  We might not have any freshman on the team next year which is progress.  If Mullin can get Lovett, Ponds, Simon and Freudenberg to stay together through their junior year I think he will be successful.

nudginator59

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 09:22:58 AM »

 What is the biggest priority? Show that he's a really good coach that can bring  players to their full potential, or bring in as much talent as possible that will lead to wins and bring in more talent, and then figure out the X's and O's stuff?

Lavin tried the latter of that both here and at UCLA and it didn't work for him. If you have a clueless Xs and Os guy your team will always underachieve no matter how much talent you have.

What we need is a coach that knows how to develop players and build and maintain a program. Within our own conference we see programs like Villanova, Xavier and Butler that are consistently good because they bring in solid 4 year guys that they develop into good to great players and when those players leave there are always guys already in the program ready to step in and replace them. This is what we have to do to win because we will never be a Kentucky, Duke or Kansas that can reload with elite freshman every year

Lavin, with his class did make it to two NITs and one NCAA tournament. Wasn't the biggest issue that he stopped recruiting and that NCAA team didn't have reinforcements? Lavin having to rebuild the program after being here for five years another reason why he was let go?
Cougar O' Malley

Poison

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 09:28:13 AM »
I think that is why we have to patient with Mullin.  Next year will be his first where he is not counting on freshman to carry the team.  We might not have any freshman on the team next year which is progress.  If Mullin can get Lovett, Ponds, Simon and Freudenberg to stay together through their junior year I think he will be successful.

Good programs like Xavier and Nova have continuity. That's a big part of why they win and we don't. We get the same talent they do, but they have seniors, juniors, sophs and freshman. If we have a roster of only juniors and seniors, in two years, we'll probably repeat the season we're having now. Success is about more than just landing good recruits. We need players who have been a part of Mullin's program to lead the team. We opened the season without leadership.

TONYD3

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 09:38:08 AM »
staff- no experience all yes men. Much of the coaching falls to st. Jean .

Tempo- why do we play so fast? The other teams are better. Our bench is thin. Why don't we play other defenses to give guys a break or hide guys. Jarvis played zone after artest left. Didn't play man until late in the game. Kept guys out of foul trouble and kept huts from getting tired . Also kept heath orvis (mussini ) on bench.

Substitutions- Our best players need to play. Our bench stinks. Need to figure out a way where they can't hurt us.

Europeans- really stink . They all shoot to much. They all think they are gunners. They are deep bench players and should act accordingly. Mussini should shoot when open. He is not stephon curry.

Defense- not a shock we are skinny- we should have had some kind of plan going into season.-have to a better job . Can't do worse. Worst defensive team that I have ever seen.

Shot selection- why does everyone have the green light from everywhere? Why are bad players allowed to shoot wherever they want?

If we keep everything the same the rest of this year we can't expect any different results . If we keep following the process we are going to suck next year also. Changes need to be made. A defensive system has to implemented in pre season. Someone has to coach defense.

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.


« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 09:54:09 AM by TONYD3 »

lihoop

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2017, 09:56:38 AM »
We need 3 Bigs (need depth) and a big man coach.  Need Richie F to develop and bulk up.

TONYD3

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2017, 09:58:50 AM »
How can Matt recruit if we win 10 or fewer games?

derk

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2017, 11:10:16 AM »
We need 3 Bigs (need depth) and a big man coach.  Need Richie F to develop and bulk up.

And we have to stop with these nagging injuries. RF could've gotten some valuable PT if he was able to play. So who is it today ? RF again ?

Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2017, 12:25:16 PM »
I think that is why we have to patient with Mullin.  Next year will be his first where he is not counting on freshman to carry the team.  We might not have any freshman on the team next year which is progress.  If Mullin can get Lovett, Ponds, Simon and Freudenberg to stay together through their junior year I think he will be successful.

Good programs like Xavier and Nova have continuity. That's a big part of why they win and we don't.

I agree with you on this one. 

staff- no experience all yes men. Much of the coaching falls to st. Jean .

Tempo- why do we play so fast? The other teams are better. Our bench is thin. Why don't we play other defenses to give guys a break or hide guys. Jarvis played zone after artest left. Didn't play man until late in the game. Kept guys out of foul trouble and kept huts from getting tired . Also kept heath orvis (mussini ) on bench.

Substitutions- Our best players need to play. Our bench stinks. Need to figure out a way where they can't hurt us.

Europeans- really stink . They all shoot to much. They all think they are gunners. They are deep bench players and should act accordingly. Mussini should shoot when open. He is not stephon curry.

Defense- not a shock we are skinny- we should have had some kind of plan going into season.-have to a better job . Can't do worse. Worst defensive team that I have ever seen.

Shot selection- why does everyone have the green light from everywhere? Why are bad players allowed to shoot wherever they want?

If we keep everything the same the rest of this year we can't expect any different results . If we keep following the process we are going to suck next year also. Changes need to be made. A defensive system has to implemented in pre season. Someone has to coach defense.

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.

I pretty much agree with your entire post with the exception that the Euro recruit's stink.  I don't particularly like dumping on these kids.  Especially, our own.  Amar may have his issues, but Mussini and Freudenberg can be useful.  Freudenberg is still a freshmen. 

Heck!  Mussini was the only one who truly showed some ability to move his feet against Villanova.  I also don't believe they're typically put in the right position to succeed.  Really, I could say that for the entire team.   

« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 12:26:36 PM by mjdinkins »

SJUFAN

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2017, 01:02:51 PM »
Chris Mullin knows how to play basketball. Needs  to learn how to teach. First class turn Yakwe into a rebounding machine before the end of year. Teach Ahmed to drive to the hoop without making a turnover. Make the guards pass the ball three times before a shot. Not bite on a jump fakes . Believe in themselves.


Yakwe needed to sit on the bench for a couple years and learn from upper classmen. That is the problem the problem. Mullin needs to focus on  bringing in better players and in time we wouldn't need to rely so heavily on young players unless their talent warrants it.

Yakwe was a 4 star top 100 recruit. By now, he should be pretty good. 

Who cares what his ranking was out of HS. Cheick Diallo was a 5 star top 10 prospect, how much playing time did he get? That's what top programs do, they bring in talent and develop them but the upper classmen carries the torch. Yakwe isn't good, Sima wasn't good, Ellison isn't good. So far they haven't shown to be winning basketball players. To be able to do things that help you win that isn't captured in a statistic, like boxing out.

SJUFAN

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2017, 01:05:19 PM »

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.


Where should we finish with this roster if not 9/10?

Poison

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2017, 01:09:31 PM »
I think that is why we have to patient with Mullin.  Next year will be his first where he is not counting on freshman to carry the team.  We might not have any freshman on the team next year which is progress.  If Mullin can get Lovett, Ponds, Simon and Freudenberg to stay together through their junior year I think he will be successful.

Good programs like Xavier and Nova have continuity. That's a big part of why they win and we don't.

I agree with you on this one. 

staff- no experience all yes men. Much of the coaching falls to st. Jean .

Tempo- why do we play so fast? The other teams are better. Our bench is thin. Why don't we play other defenses to give guys a break or hide guys. Jarvis played zone after artest left. Didn't play man until late in the game. Kept guys out of foul trouble and kept huts from getting tired . Also kept heath orvis (mussini ) on bench.

Substitutions- Our best players need to play. Our bench stinks. Need to figure out a way where they can't hurt us.

Europeans- really stink . They all shoot to much. They all think they are gunners. They are deep bench players and should act accordingly. Mussini should shoot when open. He is not stephon curry.

Defense- not a shock we are skinny- we should have had some kind of plan going into season.-have to a better job . Can't do worse. Worst defensive team that I have ever seen.

Shot selection- why does everyone have the green light from everywhere? Why are bad players allowed to shoot wherever they want?

If we keep everything the same the rest of this year we can't expect any different results . If we keep following the process we are going to suck next year also. Changes need to be made. A defensive system has to implemented in pre season. Someone has to coach defense.

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.

I pretty much agree with your entire post with the exception that the Euro recruit's stink.  I don't particularly like dumping on these kids.  Especially, our own.  Amar may have his issues, but Mussini and Freudenberg can be useful.  Freudenberg is still a freshmen. 

Heck!  Mussini was the only one who truly showed some ability to move his feet against Villanova.  I also don't believe they're typically put in the right position to succeed.  Really, I could say that for the entire team.   


It is wayyyyyy too soon to judge Freudenberg. He has talent, but he needs time to learn the American game. Let's see what he comes back like after a full season under his belt and a summer of work on his game and his strength. It seems like the summer reports were right about Ellison. I remember him throwing up shots over the backboard last year. He's much improved.

Mussini did hold his own at times against Nova, but overall, he hasn't been the 9/10 point per game guy he was last year. Part of that is a lack of minutes, but he's out there, and he hasn't been hitting shots at the clip he was in November and December. In order to win 6 or 7 games, which I guess is my dream scenario this year, they have to get contributions from their bench. Even if Lovett and Ponds score 40 together, we still need to get to 75 to beat just about anyone.

We had hoped that Freudenberg would have been able to seriously contribute this year at some point, but clearly, it hasn't been the case yet. Doesn't mean he can't make a jump, but I don't even think he played against Nova. Like so many other freshman we've had, his future will be determined by how serious he is about the off season.

TONYD3

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2017, 02:59:18 PM »

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.

Limited doesn't mean bad. This team could be playing better

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.


Where should we finish with this roster if not 9/10?

Where should we finish with this roster if not 9/10?
Better coaching 6/7. With a .500 record. Talent is close to NIT level. Way better then Oliver purnel level, where I think we finish.

Wods317

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2017, 03:11:09 PM »

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.

Limited doesn't mean bad. This team could be playing better

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.


Where should we finish with this roster if not 9/10?

Where should we finish with this roster if not 9/10?
Better coaching 6/7. With a .500 record. Talent is close to NIT level. Way better then Oliver purnel level, where I think we finish.

We have talent but we are a very young team. Who in the big east are we better then if we should finish 6th? I would say DePaul and you can argue for providence maybe but other then that I don't think we are better then any of the other teams. We have some talent but depth size  and experience we do not have.

Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2017, 03:15:27 PM »

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.


Where should we finish with this roster if not 9/10?

11th

SJUFAN

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Re: What is the biggest priority for SJUBB, coaching or program building?
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2017, 04:46:42 PM »

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.

Limited doesn't mean bad. This team could be playing better

The roster is limited. But we should not finish in 9/10 place.


Where should we finish with this roster if not 9/10?

Where should we finish with this roster if not 9/10?
Better coaching 6/7. With a .500 record. Talent is close to NIT level. Way better then Oliver purnel level, where I think we finish.

Coaching could improve specifically on the defensive end, but if you believe there is better talent on this team than four other programs in the BE you are not paying attention to the talent and experience that other teams have. Other teams also have experience coaches as well.