LoVett

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goredmen

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #120 on: March 14, 2017, 11:55:37 PM »
How can you say that absolutely with Ponds and Simon on the roster? We were 4-1 when Lovett played 25 or less minutes and 2-1 when he didn't played at all. That was almost half of our wins.

Ponds will easily be one of the ten best PGs nationally next year IMO and Simon was ranked #35 (ahead of Lovett) overall in 2015. It's almost like you are assuming he'll be a bust because
of our luck. What if he's an animal like Owens? How many pts would a defensive stopper that hits the glass, didn't fall after every layup, got back on D, and could handle his own getting caught dow low with a wing or big on a switch makeup from this past squad? We couldn't stop anyone this year. The dual mighty mouse backcourt (which I do love) only works if they can be physical and play above average D.  That will never be Lovett's game. Simon is 35 lbs heavier and 7 inches taller.  How many minutes do you think Lovett would have played at Arizona as a 160 lb true freshman with Jackson-Cartwright, Alonzo Trier, Gabe York, and Kadeem Allen? We're talking about the highest rated kid we've had here (tied with Dom) in 20 years!

Any transfer that came here with Ponds, Lovett, and Simon each having three years left would  have needed their head checked. It will still be a hard sell without Lovett, but it opens
the door a bit--especially for a "pure" point.

Lovett leaving being a bad thing has little to do with how good Ponds and Simon are. They can be great players and we could still be a really good team without Lovett. Lovett returning wouldn't take any minutes away from either. His minutes would come at the expense of Ellison and Mussini (if both stay). There's no way having Ellison or Mussini on the court over Lovett makes us better.

With basketball continuing to evolve into a more guard oriented game, having Lovett, Ponds and Simon on the court at the same time would be a very solid backcourt and still allows us to go big or small at the 4/5 as Simon has the size and athleticism to defend 3s. If that lineup isn't getting the job done on defense you can still only play 2 out of the 3 on the court at the same time without having to cut their minutes all that much.

Also, saying Ponds will easily be a top 10 PG nationally next year is a ridiculous thing to say considering he's not even a true PG and we'd be much better off with him playing the 2.

Re: LoVett
« Reply #121 on: March 14, 2017, 11:58:49 PM »
we likely won't be a better team without him next year but he's not Marcus Hatten either. We were a 14-win team.

Well, we need to be a better team with or without LoVett or we could easily find ourselves in predicament, if we don't land a solid, 2018 class.  We can't afford three straight crappy seasons.  We're going to need to be a beast on the grad transfers.

I know Paultzman doesn't believe we'll seriously scour the JUCO level, but I think we need to so.  There are some high-scoring D-1 JUCO's still available.  I'm sure there will be a few, 2017 kids who'll renege once the head coach of the respective schools have been either fired or took another gig. 

The 2017-2018 season is extremely imperative.

If Lovett bolts, I honestly don't see a need for a JUCO or high school knee-jerk signing if the staff can get pledges from Ellison and Mussini to buy in to bigger roles. Simon will slide into the starting lineup, Mussini proved he can be a very solid 20 mpg scorer off the bench and Ellison can handle both spots. We also have Ahmed and Clark to add perimeter skills in smaller lineups  or even play SG in a pinch. Ahmed particularly provides a lot of insurance for the position. Providence did just fine with much less.

The priority has to be a grad transfer big man.

Ellison may improve if he decides to put in an incredible amount of work, but Mussini should know by now that this level is too much for his fragile frame and lack of talent.

Both Ellison and Ahmed need to come off the bench

So then who starts?

Ponds
Simon
Clark
Owens
5th year transfer

Poison

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #122 on: March 15, 2017, 12:04:18 AM »
we likely won't be a better team without him next year but he's not Marcus Hatten either. We were a 14-win team.

Well, we need to be a better team with or without LoVett or we could easily find ourselves in predicament, if we don't land a solid, 2018 class.  We can't afford three straight crappy seasons.  We're going to need to be a beast on the grad transfers.

I know Paultzman doesn't believe we'll seriously scour the JUCO level, but I think we need to so.  There are some high-scoring D-1 JUCO's still available.  I'm sure there will be a few, 2017 kids who'll renege once the head coach of the respective schools have been either fired or took another gig. 

The 2017-2018 season is extremely imperative.

If Lovett bolts, I honestly don't see a need for a JUCO or high school knee-jerk signing if the staff can get pledges from Ellison and Mussini to buy in to bigger roles. Simon will slide into the starting lineup, Mussini proved he can be a very solid 20 mpg scorer off the bench and Ellison can handle both spots. We also have Ahmed and Clark to add perimeter skills in smaller lineups  or even play SG in a pinch. Ahmed particularly provides a lot of insurance for the position. Providence did just fine with much less.

The priority has to be a grad transfer big man.

Ellison may improve if he decides to put in an incredible amount of work, but Mussini should know by now that this level is too much for his fragile frame and lack of talent.

Both Ellison and Ahmed need to come off the bench

So then who starts?

Ponds
Simon
Clark
Owens
5th year transfer

I think it's highly unlikely that Ahmed doesn't start. Clark hasn't shown that he has starter talent. Simon may have starter talent, but he hasn't shown it either. Ponds and Owens make sense, but is Mullin going to bench 3 out of 5 starters from last year's team?

Re: LoVett
« Reply #123 on: March 15, 2017, 12:04:39 AM »
Did some research on Simon and watched some of his tape. He seems to have the potential to be a slightly shorter version of Pointer with a better handle and jumper. If that's true, Ponds stays and we get stronger in the frontcourt, we will be just fine without Marcus.

Simon isn't a good shooter. He's built kind of like Rondo in a sense that he's freakishly long. 7' wingspan on 6'5 frame.

Has good court vision and feel. Wish his handle was tighter (maybe it's gotten better).

Ultimately he'd be better with Lovett

When I said better jumper, I meant on a relative basis compared to Pointer. I'm hoping that he's been working on that this year. If there's one thing this staff should be able to teach, it's to shoot.

Re: LoVett
« Reply #124 on: March 15, 2017, 12:05:48 AM »
we likely won't be a better team without him next year but he's not Marcus Hatten either. We were a 14-win team.

Well, we need to be a better team with or without LoVett or we could easily find ourselves in predicament, if we don't land a solid, 2018 class.  We can't afford three straight crappy seasons.  We're going to need to be a beast on the grad transfers.

I know Paultzman doesn't believe we'll seriously scour the JUCO level, but I think we need to so.  There are some high-scoring D-1 JUCO's still available.  I'm sure there will be a few, 2017 kids who'll renege once the head coach of the respective schools have been either fired or took another gig. 

The 2017-2018 season is extremely imperative.

If Lovett bolts, I honestly don't see a need for a JUCO or high school knee-jerk signing if the staff can get pledges from Ellison and Mussini to buy in to bigger roles. Simon will slide into the starting lineup, Mussini proved he can be a very solid 20 mpg scorer off the bench and Ellison can handle both spots. We also have Ahmed and Clark to add perimeter skills in smaller lineups  or even play SG in a pinch. Ahmed particularly provides a lot of insurance for the position. Providence did just fine with much less.

The priority has to be a grad transfer big man.

Ellison may improve if he decides to put in an incredible amount of work, but Mussini should know by now that this level is too much for his fragile frame and lack of talent.

Both Ellison and Ahmed need to come off the bench

So then who starts?

Ponds
Simon
Clark
Owens
5th year transfer

I think it's highly unlikely that Ahmed doesn't start. Clark hasn't shown that he has starter talent. Simon may have starter talent, but he hasn't shown it either. Ponds and Owens make sense, but is Mullin going to bench 3 out of 5 starters from last year's team?

Oh I agree. Ahmed will probably have to start because of lack of options. Recruiting guru?

Poison

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #125 on: March 15, 2017, 12:10:07 AM »
we likely won't be a better team without him next year but he's not Marcus Hatten either. We were a 14-win team.

Well, we need to be a better team with or without LoVett or we could easily find ourselves in predicament, if we don't land a solid, 2018 class.  We can't afford three straight crappy seasons.  We're going to need to be a beast on the grad transfers.

I know Paultzman doesn't believe we'll seriously scour the JUCO level, but I think we need to so.  There are some high-scoring D-1 JUCO's still available.  I'm sure there will be a few, 2017 kids who'll renege once the head coach of the respective schools have been either fired or took another gig. 

The 2017-2018 season is extremely imperative.

If Lovett bolts, I honestly don't see a need for a JUCO or high school knee-jerk signing if the staff can get pledges from Ellison and Mussini to buy in to bigger roles. Simon will slide into the starting lineup, Mussini proved he can be a very solid 20 mpg scorer off the bench and Ellison can handle both spots. We also have Ahmed and Clark to add perimeter skills in smaller lineups  or even play SG in a pinch. Ahmed particularly provides a lot of insurance for the position. Providence did just fine with much less.

The priority has to be a grad transfer big man.

Ellison may improve if he decides to put in an incredible amount of work, but Mussini should know by now that this level is too much for his fragile frame and lack of talent.

Both Ellison and Ahmed need to come off the bench

So then who starts?

Ponds
Simon
Clark
Owens
5th year transfer

I think it's highly unlikely that Ahmed doesn't start. Clark hasn't shown that he has starter talent. Simon may have starter talent, but he hasn't shown it either. Ponds and Owens make sense, but is Mullin going to bench 3 out of 5 starters from last year's team?

Oh I agree. Ahmed will probably have to start because of lack of options. Recruiting guru?

They need a real coach on the coaching staff. The team plays like sissies. Mike Rice is fine with me. I don't care if he's crazy.

Re: LoVett
« Reply #126 on: March 15, 2017, 12:11:16 AM »
we likely won't be a better team without him next year but he's not Marcus Hatten either. We were a 14-win team.

Well, we need to be a better team with or without LoVett or we could easily find ourselves in predicament, if we don't land a solid, 2018 class.  We can't afford three straight crappy seasons.  We're going to need to be a beast on the grad transfers.

I know Paultzman doesn't believe we'll seriously scour the JUCO level, but I think we need to so.  There are some high-scoring D-1 JUCO's still available.  I'm sure there will be a few, 2017 kids who'll renege once the head coach of the respective schools have been either fired or took another gig. 

The 2017-2018 season is extremely imperative.

If Lovett bolts, I honestly don't see a need for a JUCO or high school knee-jerk signing if the staff can get pledges from Ellison and Mussini to buy in to bigger roles. Simon will slide into the starting lineup, Mussini proved he can be a very solid 20 mpg scorer off the bench and Ellison can handle both spots. We also have Ahmed and Clark to add perimeter skills in smaller lineups  or even play SG in a pinch. Ahmed particularly provides a lot of insurance for the position. Providence did just fine with much less.

The priority has to be a grad transfer big man.

Ellison may improve if he decides to put in an incredible amount of work, but Mussini should know by now that this level is too much for his fragile frame and lack of talent.

Both Ellison and Ahmed need to come off the bench

So then who starts?

Ponds
Simon
Clark
Owens
5th year transfer

I think it's highly unlikely that Ahmed doesn't start. Clark hasn't shown that he has starter talent. Simon may have starter talent, but he hasn't shown it either. Ponds and Owens make sense, but is Mullin going to bench 3 out of 5 starters from last year's team?

Oh I agree. Ahmed will probably have to start because of lack of options. Recruiting guru?

They need a real coach on the coaching staff. The team plays like sissies. Mike Rice is fine with me. I don't care if he's crazy.

Yup. I'm with ya on that. Someone needs to put their foot down

Marillac

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #127 on: March 15, 2017, 12:11:31 AM »
How can you say that absolutely with Ponds and Simon on the roster? We were 4-1 when Lovett played 25 or less minutes and 2-1 when he didn't played at all. That was almost half of our wins.

Ponds will easily be one of the ten best PGs nationally next year IMO and Simon was ranked #35 (ahead of Lovett) overall in 2015. It's almost like you are assuming he'll be a bust because
of our luck. What if he's an animal like Owens? How many pts would a defensive stopper that hits the glass, didn't fall after every layup, got back on D, and could handle his own getting caught dow low with a wing or big on a switch makeup from this past squad? We couldn't stop anyone this year. The dual mighty mouse backcourt (which I do love) only works if they can be physical and play above average D.  That will never be Lovett's game. Simon is 35 lbs heavier and 7 inches taller.  How many minutes do you think Lovett would have played at Arizona as a 160 lb true freshman with Jackson-Cartwright, Alonzo Trier, Gabe York, and Kadeem Allen? We're talking about the highest rated kid we've had here (tied with Dom) in 20 years!

Any transfer that came here with Ponds, Lovett, and Simon each having three years left would  have needed their head checked. It will still be a hard sell without Lovett, but it opens
the door a bit--especially for a "pure" point.

Lovett leaving being a bad thing has little to do with how good Ponds and Simon are. They can be great players and we could still be a really good team without Lovett. Lovett returning wouldn't take any minutes away from either. His minutes would come at the expense of Ellison and Mussini (if both stay). There's no way having Ellison or Mussini on the court over Lovett makes us better.

With basketball continuing to evolve into a more guard oriented game, having Lovett, Ponds and Simon on the court at the same time would be a very solid backcourt and still allows us to go big or small at the 4/5 as Simon has the size and athleticism to defend 3s. If that lineup isn't getting the job done on defense you can still only play 2 out of the 3 on the court at the same time without having to cut their minutes all that much.

Also, saying Ponds will easily be a top 10 PG nationally next year is a ridiculous thing to say considering he's not even a true PG and we'd be much better off with him playing the 2.

Time will tell. Basketball is about the sum being greater than the parts. I wish we could
trade past and current players. Lovett would have been great on the Felipe teams (Turner was awful)...Pointer's wasted junior year with Lavin using him exclusively on the perimeter
could have put this team on the bubble. Owens on the Elite Eight squad? We could have had three Lovetts this past season and not won more than 14-15 games.

We have plenty of shooting, dribble penetration, and passing...we need size, strength, defense,
and rebounding. I posted  throughout the season that our best option was always Ponds. He's creates better looks, he delivers passes that are easier to handle, he plays under more
Control and at a better pace, and he is a better shooter than Lovett. Take away Ponds and
it's a different story. You need to recognize this kid's greatness. If he realizes his defensive potential, he's the Big East P.O.Y..

Foad

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #128 on: March 15, 2017, 07:39:02 AM »
How can you say that absolutely with Ponds and Simon on the roster?

You can say absolutely because they'd still be on the roster if Lovett stayed. Lovett not being there means more minutes for Missini and Ellison. Lovett is better than those two by three country miles. Missini does one thing well and he does it oh so very slightly better than Lovett and Ellison is brain dead.

Pick a three guard rotation for your team that's going to play 80 minutes a game:

Ponds / Simon / Lovett

Ponds / Simon / Ellison

Ponds / Simon / Mussini
 
Come on now.

Quote
We were 4-1 when Lovett played 25 or less minutes and 2-1 when he didn't played at all. That was almost half of our wins.

Those four games were Northridge, Tulane, and Depaul and Georgetown at home. The common element between those wins isn't that Lovett played less than 25 minutes per game.

MCNPA

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #129 on: March 15, 2017, 09:25:15 AM »
It's kinda like say Seton Hall would be better without Whitehead.  On paper it looks ridiculous, but maybe as a team overall they are a bit more cohesive without him this season.  We have to morph in a similar way that the Hall did without Whitehead.  A huge athletic PG like Simon could help a lot especially on defense where Lovett was poor.  His size could be imposing for other guards in a different way.  I think more important for us is finding a frontcourt transfer that can create some problems.  Dave has mentioned more than once that the staff already seemingly has an option there.  Let's see what they come up with.

Foad

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #130 on: March 15, 2017, 09:32:50 AM »
It's kinda like say Seton Hall would be better without Whitehead.  On paper it looks ridiculous, but maybe as a team overall they are a bit more cohesive without him this season.  We have to morph in a similar way that the Hall did without Whitehead. 

SH won 25 games last year and 21 this year. If we morph like that we'll win 10 games.

Foad

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #131 on: March 15, 2017, 09:40:26 AM »
St John's is the only BB program in the country that gets better by talented players leaving. What's really amazing is that all the getting better by virtue of all the talent leaving has resulted in a single post season victory this century. Perhaps a paradigm shift is in order: keep the talented players and get rid of the less talented players and see what happens.

Re: LoVett
« Reply #132 on: March 15, 2017, 09:40:56 AM »
It's kinda like say Seton Hall would be better without Whitehead.  On paper it looks ridiculous, but maybe as a team overall they are a bit more cohesive without him this season.  We have to morph in a similar way that the Hall did without Whitehead.  A huge athletic PG like Simon could help a lot especially on defense where Lovett was poor.  His size could be imposing for other guards in a different way.  I think more important for us is finding a frontcourt transfer that can create some problems.  Dave has mentioned more than once that the staff already seemingly has an option there.  Let's see what they come up with.

They won the BE with him. They would have been a sweet 16 team or better with him this year.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

Wods317

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #133 on: March 15, 2017, 09:52:01 AM »
We are not better without Lovett but we still should be improved next year despite him leaving. He is a talent and would have probably have been even more effective next year with better players around him. It is a shame he is leaving but such is the world of college athletics now.

Re: LoVett
« Reply #134 on: March 15, 2017, 09:54:25 AM »
We are not better without Lovett but we still should be improved next year despite him leaving. He is a talent and would have probably have been even more effective next year with better players around him. It is a shame he is leaving but such is the world of college athletics now.

why is everyone talking like this is certainty?

Not done yet.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

Poison

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #135 on: March 15, 2017, 10:09:21 AM »
We are not better without Lovett but we still should be improved next year despite him leaving. He is a talent and would have probably have been even more effective next year with better players around him. It is a shame he is leaving but such is the world of college athletics now.

why is everyone talking like this is certainty?

Not done yet.

I don't understand why LoVett shouldn't test the waters and see where he stands. If I were his agent, and I were good at my job, I'd encourage him to see how he measures up to other point guards with NBA aspirations. Finally, college kids are allowed to explore options and still return to school.

And, if we are so certain that he wouldn't be drafted because of the amount of guard talent available then he'll return a better player after having played against better competition than he did all season, sans Nova, of course.

Foad

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #136 on: March 15, 2017, 10:10:46 AM »
why is everyone talking like this is certainty?

It must be true, the Magic Eight Baldi pronounced it. But only obliquely, so that if it doesn't happen he can deny it later.

Re: LoVett
« Reply #137 on: March 15, 2017, 10:21:50 AM »
why is everyone talking like this is certainty?

It must be true, the Magic Eight Baldi pronounced it. But only obliquely, so that if it doesn't happen he can deny it later.

I pronounced it a month go, before any of these so called twitter journalists even thought to ask him about it.  I hope he stays, but it seemed like he always had a foot out the door from the beginning.
Also, it was brought to my attention that Baldi posts are being mentioned on the JV message board

Foad

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Re: LoVett
« Reply #138 on: March 15, 2017, 10:26:17 AM »
why is everyone talking like this is certainty?

It must be true, the Magic Eight Baldi pronounced it. But only obliquely, so that if it doesn't happen he can deny it later.

I pronounced it a month go, before any of these so called twitter journalists even thought to ask him about it.  I hope he stays, but it seemed like he always had a foot out the door from the beginning.
Also, it was brought to my attention that Baldi posts are being mentioned on the JV message board

You announced that two or was it three or four of them were leaving.

I saw the RM post, evidently someone called Ricky Smith is a fan of yours.

PS The Magic Eight Baldi, that was HiLaRiOuS.

Re: LoVett
« Reply #139 on: March 15, 2017, 10:27:39 AM »
Now we need Mussini to to come back

I thought you said having two 6 foot guards who don't play D is a bad thing? We already have Ponds.