Darien Williams and Malik Ellison transferring

Already knowing eachother's tendencies, a Summer of Marcus, Shamorie and Bash in Queens finding additional chemistry was working to our favor to begin with. Retaining that core was the key.

Adding 3 players that have forced Darien, Amar, and Malik off campus is exciting to envision.

I would like to see Amar stay.  He is limited but his size and enthusiasm is a positive for the team.  With Ellison and Williams leaving I doubt if the scholy is needed.  Enjoyed his role as whacker in chief, if nothing else he has learned to give a foul and take up space.

Amar seems like a great kid and great teammate.  If he chooses to be an end of the bench player who gets burn when the front line gets in foul trouble, so be it.  If he chooses to explore an option where he is guaranteed more PT, best of luck.

Bottom line is that if we bring in one immediately eligible transfer big, the front line will be a combination of that player, Owens, Yawke and Clark.  In theory, that should be fine, if Clark is solid, the transfer is solid, and Yawke/Owens continue to develop (realize Yawke is a wild card, because we expected him to develop more between years 1 and 2, as opposed to regressing, but he has tools and we have seen what maturation does for players). 

Those 4, with Ahmed filling in sparingly at the 4, should be fine, coupled with Lovett, Ponds, Simon, Mussini and Freudenberg.  That gives us 10 guys who can play in the rotation, and at least 9 if you assume Freudenberg doesn't progress at all.

I don't see more than one immediate transfer big, unless we really like a second kid and are fortunate to land him.  Other transfer may be a "sit and wait a year" scenario, perhaps at the guard position for sure.

The 11th and 12th men on the roster are the reason St Johns didnt finish top 5 in the Big East!

Amar is a goner, he can thank Ant Livingston for the additional year, stop reminiscing, he was simply garbage, we're replacing him with X player who will give us what he couldn't. He should've went to the MAAC once Lavs left. 3-0 vs. Cuse, I admired his spirit, hope he has enough credits to graduate.

Amar is a goner, he can thank Ant Livingston for the additional year, stop reminiscing, he was simply garbage, we're replacing him with X player who will give us what he couldn't. He should've went to the MAAC once Lavs left. 3-0 vs. Cuse, I admired his spirit, hope he has enough credits to graduate.

So you call him garbage, but like his spirit?

A garbage time BE player, not person, who had great pride for the uniform. Unfortunately his time is up, he holds a valuable scholarship.

This is Year 3, the time to win is now. Everyone knows this. They have to trim the fat. 

A garbage time BE player, not person, who had great pride for the uniform. Unfortunately his time is up, he holds a valuable scholarship.

This is Year 3, the time to win is now. Everyone knows this. They have to trim the fat. 

Fair enough. But at the same times, others who actually played big minutes should be held accountable also

Already knowing eachother's tendencies, a Summer of Marcus, Shamorie and Bash in Queens finding additional chemistry was working to our favor to begin with. Retaining that core was the key.

Adding 3 players that have forced Darien, Amar, and Malik off campus is exciting to envision.

Seems so. But last year Jones left and Amar left. We added no one. Than Amar return d.

This kid has legitimate NBA potential.

Man you need to put down the pipe.  Seriously!

Quote from: derk on March 30, 2017, 01:49:10 PM

Quote from: stjohnnie75 on March 30, 2017, 11:26:32 AM

Quote from: derk on March 30, 2017, 11:18:30 AM

Quote from: Dave on March 30, 2017, 09:31:43 AM

Yea Amar will soon be next. I thought he would have been first

Can't see RF having any position on this team. He already wasted 1 year sitting on the bench and I can't see him getting any minutes next year. He needs to either transfer or sit out.

Please name me the 12th-13th player on any roster in the Big East. Hopefully he works on his game and hits the wright room and becomes productive as a Junior/Senior. That's what most teams do.

Easy for you to say. Maybe the kid actually wants to play the game as opposed to sitting on the bench. Thing is I can't see him getting many more minutes then he had this year ie. virtually none. So does the kid give away half his college career or does  he do something about it now. Besides Mullin wants his number back.

Maybe he enjoys campus life, NYC. Maybe he is banging a cute little blonde. Maybe he is willing to be a role player.

Good for him especially the blonde but none of that is going to help us as a team next year. Fordham has a beautiful campas, it's in NYC, and I'm sure there are 1 or 2 blonds walking around.

Quote from: KJ_Django on March 30, 2017, 07:04:13 PM

The people saying Amar is better than Freud are absolutely mental.

Well not that I'm personally advocating this but based on playing time I think the coaching staff did.

Honestly playing scared is tough for coaches. RF played scared and very poorly but the scared part is why his minutes disappeared,

Quote from: Poison on March 30, 2017, 10:43:31 PM

Quote from: derk on March 30, 2017, 10:33:40 PM

With potentially 2 -3 bigs coming in plus Clarke , Ahmed, Yawke where do his minutes come from. Unless he shows some unprecedented improvement and wows them in practice how does he get any burn.

No idea if Clark can play. We know Ahmed is a solid talent, but he's not the rebounder we need inside. Yakwe needs to improve to the point where he is helping more than hurting to warrant minutes.

Yes we have a lot of unknowns but I presume Clarke and Ahmed will be better then RF, who didn't play a minute last year, needs to find a shot and gain about 20 pounds. Not to mention the 2-3 bigs we supposedly have coming. Again, my point is where are his minutes coming from ?

They're not coming. He should leave. I think he should finish up at a program with competition closer to his skill set.
Regarding Yakwe, I'm not sold on him getting more than 12 minutes a game if he gets that. If he's getting major minutes, he'd better of woken up, or we're in big trouble. He wasn't much better than Amar.

I started this Amar argument. I never said he was good. I said he was a useful In march. He played the role of a back up foward well. He set screens, played ok defense, and rebounded. If he focused on that he could certainly contribute next year at St. John's.  I do not think RF could do any those things next year for us. Last years team needed a player who could contribute right away. Not a 2 year project. As marallic suggested maybe my thoughts are short sided but RF did t show that he could do anything well (including shooting). Contribute does not mean scoring 20 points per game. Contribute means keeping Amar on the bench, where he belonged.

What we need most is a defensive coach who also has experience coaching big men. Simple things like boxing out. And fighting for post position would help the team greatly. Next year is year 3. Something has to change or we are not going to win. Ahmed and yakwe aren't going to play smarter unless they are coached.

DJ and paris's senior year would not have been close to as successful if Norm stayed.

Quote from: derk on March 31, 2017, 09:34:09 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 30, 2017, 10:43:31 PM

Quote from: derk on March 30, 2017, 10:33:40 PM

With potentially 2 -3 bigs coming in plus Clarke , Ahmed, Yawke where do his minutes come from. Unless he shows some unprecedented improvement and wows them in practice how does he get any burn.

No idea if Clark can play. We know Ahmed is a solid talent, but he's not the rebounder we need inside. Yakwe needs to improve to the point where he is helping more than hurting to warrant minutes.

Yes we have a lot of unknowns but I presume Clarke and Ahmed will be better then RF, who didn't play a minute last year, needs to find a shot and gain about 20 pounds. Not to mention the 2-3 bigs we supposedly have coming. Again, my point is where are his minutes coming from ?

They're not coming. He should leave. I think he should finish up at a program with competition closer to his skill set.
Regarding Yakwe, I'm not sold on him getting more than 12 minutes a game if he gets that. If he's getting major minutes, he'd better of woken up, or we're in big trouble. He wasn't much better than Amar.

That was my point. RF has no role on this team. If not, then we should redshirt him and hope eventually he will be able to keep up with Division 1 competition.

Quote from: Poison on March 31, 2017, 12:08:50 PM

Quote from: derk on March 31, 2017, 09:34:09 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 30, 2017, 10:43:31 PM

Quote from: derk on March 30, 2017, 10:33:40 PM

With potentially 2 -3 bigs coming in plus Clarke , Ahmed, Yawke where do his minutes come from. Unless he shows some unprecedented improvement and wows them in practice how does he get any burn.

No idea if Clark can play. We know Ahmed is a solid talent, but he's not the rebounder we need inside. Yakwe needs to improve to the point where he is helping more than hurting to warrant minutes.

Yes we have a lot of unknowns but I presume Clarke and Ahmed will be better then RF, who didn't play a minute last year, needs to find a shot and gain about 20 pounds. Not to mention the 2-3 bigs we supposedly have coming. Again, my point is where are his minutes coming from ?

They're not coming. He should leave. I think he should finish up at a program with competition closer to his skill set.
Regarding Yakwe, I'm not sold on him getting more than 12 minutes a game if he gets that. If he's getting major minutes, he'd better of woken up, or we're in big trouble. He wasn't much better than Amar.

That was my point. RF has no role on this team. If not, then we should redshirt him and hope eventually he will be able to keep up with Division 1 competition.

Amar isn't going anywhere. He is a senior, big body, end of the bench kid who plays with great passion. We will need his ship for next year. RF is a project, again a end of the bench player who we hope can develop. Games are not won or lost because our end of the bench players aren't good enough. The focus needs to be improving the first 8.

Quote from: derk on March 31, 2017, 01:29:02 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 31, 2017, 12:08:50 PM

Quote from: derk on March 31, 2017, 09:34:09 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 30, 2017, 10:43:31 PM

Quote from: derk on March 30, 2017, 10:33:40 PM

With potentially 2 -3 bigs coming in plus Clarke , Ahmed, Yawke where do his minutes come from. Unless he shows some unprecedented improvement and wows them in practice how does he get any burn.

No idea if Clark can play. We know Ahmed is a solid talent, but he's not the rebounder we need inside. Yakwe needs to improve to the point where he is helping more than hurting to warrant minutes.

Yes we have a lot of unknowns but I presume Clarke and Ahmed will be better then RF, who didn't play a minute last year, needs to find a shot and gain about 20 pounds. Not to mention the 2-3 bigs we supposedly have coming. Again, my point is where are his minutes coming from ?

They're not coming. He should leave. I think he should finish up at a program with competition closer to his skill set.
Regarding Yakwe, I'm not sold on him getting more than 12 minutes a game if he gets that. If he's getting major minutes, he'd better of woken up, or we're in big trouble. He wasn't much better than Amar.

That was my point. RF has no role on this team. If not, then we should redshirt him and hope eventually he will be able to keep up with Division 1 competition.

Amar isn't going anywhere. He is a senior, big body, end of the bench kid who plays with great passion. We will need his ship for next year. RF is a project, again a end of the bench player who we hope can develop. Games are not won or lost because our end of the bench players aren't good enough. The focus needs to be improving the first 8.

Wanna bet he is going somewhere ?

Wish it was Moose and Amar instead of these two. Both are replaceable however, Malik's mental lapses, inconsistencies surpassed any excitement over his potential. Very likely wasn't going to explode and put it all together over the next two years. I sure hope we do have some brute strength to replace Darien though bc we are as thin as you can get in the frontcourt at this hour.

If this is it for the transfers, it's a sigh of relief. Let the good news roll in.

I'll disagree with this to an extent. Amar, in most games didn't play well. However, you could see that he was getting quicker and more aggressive. If he comes back next year, with hitting the gym some more and working on his game, he may surprise some.

I started this Amar argument. I never said he was good. I said he was a useful In march. He played the role of a back up foward well. He set screens, played ok defense, and rebounded. If he focused on that he could certainly contribute next year at St. John's.  I do not think RF could do any those things next year for us. Last years team needed a player who could contribute right away. Not a 2 year project. As marallic suggested maybe my thoughts are short sided but RF did t show that he could do anything well (including shooting). Contribute does not mean scoring 20 points per game. Contribute means keeping Amar on the bench, where he belonged.

I agree with you to the extent that I hope AA comes back: he's a senior and will likely give us more than any underclass replacement. That said, since the new year he had 24 rebounds (12 of those came in two games) and 32 personal fouls in 19 games. So he neither rebounded nor played defense, to the extent that playing defense does not comprise clubbing the other player and sending the other team to the line. Still, having suffered through three years of his incompetence I would welcome the opportunity to see if he took a step forward as a senior, as many other players have. But since you do not believe players get better through practice and repetition and maturity I don't understand why you would think the same thing.

In gross terms the correct question is not whether Alibeogwitz is better than Freudenberg next year. Because neither will make a difference and if we need them to we're intercoursed. The correct question is whether given the choice between the two of them one or the other would make more of a difference in the long term, in terms of moving the program forward. The obvious answer to that question is Fruedbergh. Because he's leagues better as a freshman than Alibegowitz.

I'd like to see AA come back. He's a good teammate and the team played pretty evenly against
the opposition when he was in there at the appropriate times. He's also good for two outstanding games a year against decent opponents. He's a solid 10th guy even if he hasn't progressed to the 8th man I thought he could grow into. With Williams and Ellison gone and the tranny staying in Florida, there is room to bring in three tranafers and keep AA for continuity.