Shamorie Ponds

I love this kid. He’s a special player.

Honestly these kind of lists should start with Mahoney's first team going forward. For those of us lucky enough to have seen Mullin and Berry play these kind of lists are silly. Guys who never saw those two play just won't understand. Just like I could not comment on the Sonny Dove's and George Johnson's..

In my time as a fan Mullin and Berry are clearly better than anyone who has played here since. And it is not even close. After those two there is a big drop to Malik Sealy and Ron Artest. Then after those two an even bigger drop with a bunch of guys grouped into the next tier.

I love this kid. He’s a special player.

I voted Mullin but by the numbers it might be Omar Cook: 15 points, 9 assists, 3 rebounds. Probably that's inflated because the team was garbage, but imagine how many assists he'd have had if he wasn't passing to Alpha Bangura and Donald Emanuel.

Quote from: Poison on December 08, 2017, 10:48:38 AM

I love this kid. He’s a special player.

I voted Mullin but by the numbers it might be Omar Cook: 15 points, 9 assists, 3 rebounds. Probably that's inflated because the team was garbage, but imagine how many assists he'd have had if he wasn't passing to Alpha Bangura and Donald Emanuel.

What happens if you switch Cook with Barkley? Elite 8 team better? Worse? Same? In your opinion.

Honestly if you go by the question, the clear answer is Walter Berry.
Shows up as really the only addition to a team that lost in first round of tourney and they go to Final Four. Next year is the Player of the Year. No one has had a better start than that. Would be tough to beat that by anyone.

Honestly these kind of lists should start with Mahoney's first team going forward. For those of us lucky enough to have seen Mullin and Berry play these kind of lists are silly. Guys who never saw those two play just won't understand. Just like I could not comment on the Sonny Dove's and George Johnson's..

In my time as a fan Mullin and Berry are clearly better than anyone who has played here since. And it is not even close. After those two there is a big drop to Malik Sealy and Ron Artest. Then after those two an even bigger drop with a bunch of guys grouped into the next tier.

I agree completely. Although I would put Mark Jackson in the Sealy / Artest bucket.

Third tier would be guys like Barkley, Hatten, Harvey, and some of the others mentioned.
 

Quote from: Foad on December 08, 2017, 11:24:55 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 08, 2017, 10:48:38 AM

I love this kid. He’s a special player.

I voted Mullin but by the numbers it might be Omar Cook: 15 points, 9 assists, 3 rebounds. Probably that's inflated because the team was garbage, but imagine how many assists he'd have had if he wasn't passing to Alpha Bangura and Donald Emanuel.

What happens if you switch Cook with Barkley? Elite 8 team better? Worse? Same? In your opinion.

Probably pretty similar.

Quote from: we are sju on December 08, 2017, 11:21:59 AM

Honestly these kind of lists should start with Mahoney's first team going forward. For those of us lucky enough to have seen Mullin and Berry play these kind of lists are silly. Guys who never saw those two play just won't understand. Just like I could not comment on the Sonny Dove's and George Johnson's..

In my time as a fan Mullin and Berry are clearly better than anyone who has played here since. And it is not even close. After those two there is a big drop to Malik Sealy and Ron Artest. Then after those two an even bigger drop with a bunch of guys grouped into the next tier.

I agree completely. Although I would put Mark Jackson in the Sealy / Artest bucket.

Third tier would be guys like Barkley, Hatten, Harvey, and some of the others mentioned.
 

Jackson my 3rd favorite player, but to be fair his first two seasons were just average. No one would have to twist my arm to put him in Sealy / Artest 2nd tier though.

Quote from: Foad on December 08, 2017, 11:24:55 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 08, 2017, 10:48:38 AM

I love this kid. He’s a special player.

I voted Mullin but by the numbers it might be Omar Cook: 15 points, 9 assists, 3 rebounds. Probably that's inflated because the team was garbage, but imagine how many assists he'd have had if he wasn't passing to Alpha Bangura and Donald Emanuel.

What happens if you switch Cook with Barkley? Elite 8 team better? Worse? Same? In your opinion.

Same-ish. He would've averaged 25 assists a game.

Barkley. Kid made a smooth transition to college and team didn't miss a step.

Quote from: Spruces2 on December 08, 2017, 11:39:26 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 08, 2017, 11:21:59 AM

Honestly these kind of lists should start with Mahoney's first team going forward. For those of us lucky enough to have seen Mullin and Berry play these kind of lists are silly. Guys who never saw those two play just won't understand. Just like I could not comment on the Sonny Dove's and George Johnson's..

In my time as a fan Mullin and Berry are clearly better than anyone who has played here since. And it is not even close. After those two there is a big drop to Malik Sealy and Ron Artest. Then after those two an even bigger drop with a bunch of guys grouped into the next tier.

I agree completely. Although I would put Mark Jackson in the Sealy / Artest bucket.

Third tier would be guys like Barkley, Hatten, Harvey, and some of the others mentioned.
 

Jackson my 3rd favorite player, but to be fair his first two seasons were just average. No one would have to twist my arm to put him in Sealy / Artest 2nd tier though.

Sorry - didn't read the question. Was thinking about overall career rather than first year.

Marcus Lovett

Quote from: we are sju on December 08, 2017, 11:32:54 AM

Quote from: Foad on December 08, 2017, 11:24:55 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 08, 2017, 10:48:38 AM

I love this kid. He’s a special player.

I voted Mullin but by the numbers it might be Omar Cook: 15 points, 9 assists, 3 rebounds. Probably that's inflated because the team was garbage, but imagine how many assists he'd have had if he wasn't passing to Alpha Bangura and Donald Emanuel.

What happens if you switch Cook with Barkley? Elite 8 team better? Worse? Same? In your opinion.

Probably pretty similar.

Worse.  Cook is the only player I've seen to finish 2nd in the nation in assists, yet played totally selfish ball, especially down the stretch that year.

I look at his assist numbers that year, and I almost think he got an assist on every pass he made.  I know I was complaining that he shot too much, and he shot WAAAAAAYYY too many three pointers for my liking.

After that first game against Kentucky, I thought he'd take us to the Final Four in his sophomore year.  By February of his freshman year, I was kind of hoping he'd go pro.  If you watched the games, you could tell there was tension between him and his teammates (although tension between Barkley and Bootsy didn't stop us from winning the BE tournament the year before, but that was one incident, by all accounts).

Quote from: Spruces2 on December 08, 2017, 11:41:48 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 08, 2017, 11:32:54 AM

Quote from: Foad on December 08, 2017, 11:24:55 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 08, 2017, 10:48:38 AM

I love this kid. He’s a special player.

I voted Mullin but by the numbers it might be Omar Cook: 15 points, 9 assists, 3 rebounds. Probably that's inflated because the team was garbage, but imagine how many assists he'd have had if he wasn't passing to Alpha Bangura and Donald Emanuel.

What happens if you switch Cook with Barkley? Elite 8 team better? Worse? Same? In your opinion.

Probably pretty similar.

Worse.  Cook is the only player I've seen to finish 2nd in the nation in assists, yet played totally selfish ball, especially down the stretch that year.

I look at his assist numbers that year, and I almost think he got an assist on every pass he made.  I know I was complaining that he shot too much, and he show WAAAAAAYYY too many three pointers for my liking.

After that first game against Kentucky, I thought he'd take us to the Final Four in his sophomore year.  By February of his freshman year, I was kind of hoping he'd go pro.  If you watched the games, you could tell there was tension between him and his teammates (although tension between Barkley and Bootsy didn't stop us from winning the BE tournament the year before, but that was one incident, by all accounts).

In fairness to Cook, the rest of the team was out of shape, and he was lightyears ahead of everyone. Just imagine how many assists he'd have had if he went to Uconn, Nova or SU. Cook had Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Anthony Glover and Abe Keita to finish his masterful plays. Yikes. No wonder he left.

Quote from: sju61982 on December 08, 2017, 02:34:11 PM

Quote from: Spruces2 on December 08, 2017, 11:41:48 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 08, 2017, 11:32:54 AM

Quote from: Foad on December 08, 2017, 11:24:55 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 08, 2017, 10:48:38 AM

I love this kid. He’s a special player.

I voted Mullin but by the numbers it might be Omar Cook: 15 points, 9 assists, 3 rebounds. Probably that's inflated because the team was garbage, but imagine how many assists he'd have had if he wasn't passing to Alpha Bangura and Donald Emanuel.

What happens if you switch Cook with Barkley? Elite 8 team better? Worse? Same? In your opinion.

Probably pretty similar.

Worse.  Cook is the only player I've seen to finish 2nd in the nation in assists, yet played totally selfish ball, especially down the stretch that year.

I look at his assist numbers that year, and I almost think he got an assist on every pass he made.  I know I was complaining that he shot too much, and he show WAAAAAAYYY too many three pointers for my liking.

After that first game against Kentucky, I thought he'd take us to the Final Four in his sophomore year.  By February of his freshman year, I was kind of hoping he'd go pro.  If you watched the games, you could tell there was tension between him and his teammates (although tension between Barkley and Bootsy didn't stop us from winning the BE tournament the year before, but that was one incident, by all accounts).

In fairness to Cook, the rest of the team was out of shape, and he was lightyears ahead of everyone. Just imagine how many assists he'd have had if he went to Uconn, Nova or SU. Cook had Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Anthony Glover and Abe Keita to finish his masterful plays. Yikes. No wonder he left.

Cook,if I remember correctly, wanted to go to North Carolina or Kentucky, but neither would take him.  I doubt the reasons for that had anything to do with his ability (recruiting against those teams back then, was nothing like it is now).

As far as his "bad"teammates that you mentioned, well, Marcus Hatten took that same group to the NCAA Tournament the following season, so either his teammates weren't that bad, or (the more likely scenario) Hatten fit in more with the team concept.

All I know is, I did not shed a single tear when Cook left.  And no, I don't think he and Hatten would have made a super backcourt, because both needed the ball in their hands to be effective.  Hatten and Ingram had some trouble playing together the following year because of that, though they did get it right come March.

Quote from: Poison on December 08, 2017, 02:58:45 PM

Quote from: sju61982 on December 08, 2017, 02:34:11 PM

Quote from: Spruces2 on December 08, 2017, 11:41:48 AM

Quote from: we are sju on December 08, 2017, 11:32:54 AM

Quote from: Foad on December 08, 2017, 11:24:55 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 08, 2017, 10:48:38 AM

I love this kid. He’s a special player.

I voted Mullin but by the numbers it might be Omar Cook: 15 points, 9 assists, 3 rebounds. Probably that's inflated because the team was garbage, but imagine how many assists he'd have had if he wasn't passing to Alpha Bangura and Donald Emanuel.

What happens if you switch Cook with Barkley? Elite 8 team better? Worse? Same? In your opinion.

Probably pretty similar.

Worse.  Cook is the only player I've seen to finish 2nd in the nation in assists, yet played totally selfish ball, especially down the stretch that year.

I look at his assist numbers that year, and I almost think he got an assist on every pass he made.  I know I was complaining that he shot too much, and he show WAAAAAAYYY too many three pointers for my liking.

After that first game against Kentucky, I thought he'd take us to the Final Four in his sophomore year.  By February of his freshman year, I was kind of hoping he'd go pro.  If you watched the games, you could tell there was tension between him and his teammates (although tension between Barkley and Bootsy didn't stop us from winning the BE tournament the year before, but that was one incident, by all accounts).

In fairness to Cook, the rest of the team was out of shape, and he was lightyears ahead of everyone. Just imagine how many assists he'd have had if he went to Uconn, Nova or SU. Cook had Willie Shaw, Kyle Cuffe, Anthony Glover and Abe Keita to finish his masterful plays. Yikes. No wonder he left.

Cook,if I remember correctly, wanted to go to North Carolina or Kentucky, but neither would take him.  I doubt the reasons for that had anything to do with his ability (recruiting against those teams back then, was nothing like it is now).

As far as his "bad"teammates that you mentioned, well, Marcus Hatten took that same group to the NCAA Tournament the following season, so either his teammates weren't that bad, or (the more likely scenario) Hatten fit in more with the team concept.

All I know is, I did not shed a single tear when Cook left.  And no, I don't think he and Hatten would have made a super backcourt, because both needed the ball in their hands to be effective.  Hatten and Ingram had some trouble playing together the following year because of that, though they did get it right come March.

Hatten was a dynamic scorer. Cook was a point guard. Those teams stunk but Hatten's skill set was more conducive to taking a crappy team to the tourney. It is no coincidence that Willie Shaw's only good season came with Cook.
Probably would not have worked at all but would have loved to see them together if Cook had stayed.

Hatten was a dynamic scorer.

Hatten was magic. Leave aside the offense: he was a great rebounder and a great defender and had balls of steel. I'd be hard pressed to leave him off my all time starting five and no way he's off my all time seven and that's taking into account that he couldn't shoot. As great as Mullin was he played with eight players who had a cup of coffee or more in the NBA. Berry had Jackson and Glass and Jones. Hatten had Glover and a bunch of misfits like Kyle Cuffe and Andre Stanley. I honestly don't know if Mullin or whoever could have carried those clowns to the NCAA's, especially considering the Jarvae factor.

Quote from: we are sju on December 08, 2017, 03:41:19 PM

Hatten was a dynamic scorer.

Hatten was magic. Leave aside the offense: he was a great rebounder and a great defender and had balls of steel. I'd be hard pressed to leave him off my all time starting five and no way he's off my all time seven and that's taking into account that he couldn't shoot. As great as Mullin was he played with eight players who had a cup of coffee or more in the NBA. Berry had Jackson and Glass and Jones. Hatten had Glover and a bunch of misfits like Kyle Cuffe and Andre Stanley. I honestly don't know if Mullin or whoever could have carried those clowns to the NCAA's, especially considering the Jarvae factor.

Mullin Junior year team was pretty ugly. Jeff Allen or Wennington was 2nd best player.

Mullin had best career.

Berry had the best single season. Hatten would be 2nd.

Malik Sealy made the biggest jump from frosh to Soph. From promising good player to great player. Artest would be 2nd

I think Postell made biggest jump from soph to Junior followed by Willie Glass. SCRATCH THAT.
Mark Jackson!!!

David Cain and Dom Pointer tie for best out of nowhere senior year. Maybe slight edge to Cain in that he carried his team after stinking for 3 years. Don't think Pointer ever stunk.

Mullin had best career.

Berry had the best single season. Hatten would be 2nd.

Malik Sealy made the biggest jump from frosh to Soph. From promising good player to great player. Artest would be 2nd

I think Postell made biggest jump from soph to Junior followed by Willie Glass. SCRATCH THAT.
Mark Jackson!!!

David Cain and Dom Pointer tie for best out of nowhere senior year. Maybe slight edge to Cain in that he carried his team after stinking for 3 years. Don't think Pointer ever stunk.

going to have to disagree with you on sealy and go with Jayson Williams jump from his first year to second