Depaul prediction thread

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 10:45:31 AM

Quote from: we are sju on February 15, 2018, 10:12:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on February 14, 2018, 11:29:26 PM

Does anyone know who that kid wearing #2 for us that hit 4-8 from three? WASJU insists that Ponds can't shoot so it couldn't be him.

Are any of you willing to say Ponds is as good as Hatten yet or so we have to keep this charade going?

No

Tend to agree. Ponds is a much better shooter, Hatten a much better defender. Passing and rebounding is more or less a wash. Hatten never loss ten games in a row though and the team won 20 games both of his years. OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman. If Ponds stays four years and continues apace he's going to be a top five or six player all time. Because he's really good. If he were leave after this year he'd be remembered as a very good two year player on some pretty bad teams. Mo Harkless territory. As far as two year players go off the top of my head: (1) Berry (2) Hatten (3) Hardy (4) everyone else. Despite the record I'd put Ponds probably slightly ahead of Hardy and nipping at Hatten's heels.

If Ponds somehow leads them to the tourney this year, all bets are off for me. Then he would move into at least a tie with Hatten. The thing with Hatten is he made the tourney and won the NIT with worse players than Ponds. Even if we finish strong and make NIT Ponds would have played same amount of  years with worse guys and not made a tourney. Which for me is the bottom line. And now Mariillac will wax poetic about Grady Reynolds, Willie Shaw and Anthony Glover. None of those guys were better than Simon, Lovett(from last year) or even Clark and Owens.

Agree except maybe Anthony Glover, very underrated player. Heart of a lion, made some huge shots, won everywhere he went. What I don't understand about this discussion is why you can't think Ponds is great without slamming everybody else so he looks even better. 

Quote from: we are sju on February 15, 2018, 10:59:06 AM

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 10:45:31 AM

Quote from: we are sju on February 15, 2018, 10:12:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on February 14, 2018, 11:29:26 PM

Does anyone know who that kid wearing #2 for us that hit 4-8 from three? WASJU insists that Ponds can't shoot so it couldn't be him.

Are any of you willing to say Ponds is as good as Hatten yet or so we have to keep this charade going?

No

Tend to agree. Ponds is a much better shooter, Hatten a much better defender. Passing and rebounding is more or less a wash. Hatten never loss ten games in a row though and the team won 20 games both of his years. OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman. If Ponds stays four years and continues apace he's going to be a top five or six player all time. Because he's really good. If he were leave after this year he'd be remembered as a very good two year player on some pretty bad teams. Mo Harkless territory. As far as two year players go off the top of my head: (1) Berry (2) Hatten (3) Hardy (4) everyone else. Despite the record I'd put Ponds probably slightly ahead of Hardy and nipping at Hatten's heels.

If Ponds somehow leads them to the tourney this year, all bets are off for me. Then he would move into at least a tie with Hatten. The thing with Hatten is he made the tourney and won the NIT with worse players than Ponds. Even if we finish strong and make NIT Ponds would have played same amount of  years with worse guys and not made a tourney. Which for me is the bottom line. And now Mariillac will wax poetic about Grady Reynolds, Willie Shaw and Anthony Glover. None of those guys were better than Simon, Lovett(from last year) or even Clark and Owens.

Agree except maybe Anthony Glover, very underrated player. Heart of a lion, made some huge shots, won everywhere he went. What I don't understand about this discussion is why you can't think Ponds is great without slamming everybody else so he looks even better. 

It just furthers his narrative. Argument against Ponds being the next Steph Curry is how does the next Steph Curry not make an NCAA tourney. Has to make it look like Ponds is all by himself.

Comparing Ponds to other "2 year players" you have to realize his 2 years are Frosh and Soph--not Jr. and Sr. after JUCO.  Last night he surpassed Chris' first 2 year total points in 4 less games (yes Chris did not get benefit of 3 point shot).  He already is the leading Freshman scorer in team history and baring injury should become out leading Soph scorer.  Thus when comparing him to others please also consider the chronological age when making comparisons.  The young man is a wonderful player and a pleasure to watch as long as he is here.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 11:06:23 AM

Quote from: we are sju on February 15, 2018, 10:59:06 AM

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 10:45:31 AM

Quote from: we are sju on February 15, 2018, 10:12:01 AM

Quote from: Marillac on February 14, 2018, 11:29:26 PM

Does anyone know who that kid wearing #2 for us that hit 4-8 from three? WASJU insists that Ponds can't shoot so it couldn't be him.

Are any of you willing to say Ponds is as good as Hatten yet or so we have to keep this charade going?

No

Tend to agree. Ponds is a much better shooter, Hatten a much better defender. Passing and rebounding is more or less a wash. Hatten never loss ten games in a row though and the team won 20 games both of his years. OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman. If Ponds stays four years and continues apace he's going to be a top five or six player all time. Because he's really good. If he were leave after this year he'd be remembered as a very good two year player on some pretty bad teams. Mo Harkless territory. As far as two year players go off the top of my head: (1) Berry (2) Hatten (3) Hardy (4) everyone else. Despite the record I'd put Ponds probably slightly ahead of Hardy and nipping at Hatten's heels.

If Ponds somehow leads them to the tourney this year, all bets are off for me. Then he would move into at least a tie with Hatten. The thing with Hatten is he made the tourney and won the NIT with worse players than Ponds. Even if we finish strong and make NIT Ponds would have played same amount of  years with worse guys and not made a tourney. Which for me is the bottom line. And now Mariillac will wax poetic about Grady Reynolds, Willie Shaw and Anthony Glover. None of those guys were better than Simon, Lovett(from last year) or even Clark and Owens.

Shaw was good freshmen year. Thought his potential was really high. Instead he was just really high.

That was with Cook though. Which weed issue aside probably had a lot to do with Shaw having a good year. Was stupid for him to leave early but I think people forget how good Cook was. He had to be best player and scorer and a team when that really wasn't who he was.

Hey are you saying Hatten didn’t make the players around him better 😉

Comparing Ponds to other "2 year players" you have to realize his 2 years are Frosh and Soph--not Jr. and Sr. after JUCO.  Last night he surpassed Chris' first 2 year total points in 4 less games (yes Chris did not get benefit of 3 point shot).  He already is the leading Freshman scorer in team history and baring injury should become out leading Soph scorer.  Thus when comparing him to others please also consider the chronological age when making comparisons.  The young man is a wonderful player and a pleasure to watch as long as he is here.

Sorry, I thought I mentioned that. Oh wait I did: "OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman."

Comparing Ponds to Hatten - IM not at all HO one of the best half dozen St John's players I've ever seen -  isn't negative. It's high praise. He's great, nobody's saying he isn't. If he stays four years he's going to be the player all subsequent players get compared to. He's just not that player yet.

St John's DePaul recap http://www.bigeastboards.com/

Quote from: redslope on February 15, 2018, 11:39:28 AM

Comparing Ponds to other "2 year players" you have to realize his 2 years are Frosh and Soph--not Jr. and Sr. after JUCO.  Last night he surpassed Chris' first 2 year total points in 4 less games (yes Chris did not get benefit of 3 point shot).  He already is the leading Freshman scorer in team history and baring injury should become out leading Soph scorer.  Thus when comparing him to others please also consider the chronological age when making comparisons.  The young man is a wonderful player and a pleasure to watch as long as he is here.

Sorry, I thought I mentioned that. Oh wait I did: "OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman."

Comparing Ponds to Hatten - IM not at all HO one of the best half dozen St John's players I've ever seen -  isn't negative. It's high praise. He's great, nobody's saying he isn't. If he stays four years he's going to be the player all subsequent players get compared to. He's just not that player yet.

Not there yet as a player? Or not there yet there in  terms of accomplishments? I doubt we’ll see a better five game stretch than this even if he stays two more years.

Quote from: goredmen on February 15, 2018, 12:30:33 AM

Quote from: Poison on February 15, 2018, 12:11:14 AM

Quote from: goredmen on February 14, 2018, 11:07:47 PM

well I'm happy about the win.... but man that 3 at the buzzer by DePaul really hurt. ugghhh

You need to call your sponsor now.

Not allowed to have a little extra incentive on a game?

you think it hurt you, how do these kids feel..?

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/craziest-tiebreaker-in-sports-history-will-affect-two-new-york-high-school-basketball-teams

It was a tiebreaker for 1st place in a diocesan tournament, not the city playoffs. That really had little impact and something important wouldn't be decided that way. It's almost a lock those two teams will meet in the championship game anyway

Posting on here is like golfing in Florida. Every couple minutes you see a Gator.
BTW no matter how much I golf down South I will never get used to Alligators just being allowed to roam around.

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 11:52:45 AM

Quote from: redslope on February 15, 2018, 11:39:28 AM

Comparing Ponds to other "2 year players" you have to realize his 2 years are Frosh and Soph--not Jr. and Sr. after JUCO.  Last night he surpassed Chris' first 2 year total points in 4 less games (yes Chris did not get benefit of 3 point shot).  He already is the leading Freshman scorer in team history and baring injury should become out leading Soph scorer.  Thus when comparing him to others please also consider the chronological age when making comparisons.  The young man is a wonderful player and a pleasure to watch as long as he is here.

Sorry, I thought I mentioned that. Oh wait I did: "OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman."

Comparing Ponds to Hatten - IM not at all HO one of the best half dozen St John's players I've ever seen -  isn't negative. It's high praise. He's great, nobody's saying he isn't. If he stays four years he's going to be the player all subsequent players get compared to. He's just not that player yet.

Not there yet as a player? Or not there yet there in  terms of accomplishments? I doubt we’ll see a better five game stretch than this even if he stays two more years.

Either. It's been a wonderful five games and he's a wonderful player and maybe nobody will top his week. The game before this five he was oh for 12 from the floor. I doubt we'll see that either and anyway neither is a useful benchmark. I'm talking about the body of his work, his career. Mullin and Berry were more impactful - Boo Harvey was more impactful - and I can't remember one game they played much less how they did in any particular five game stretch. I don't understand the hurry to anoint him as the GOAT.

In 1972 Nate Colbert hit five home runs on six pitches and drove in 13 runs in a double header. I doubt we'll ever see that again. Nobody compares anybody to Nate Colbert.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 12:22:27 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 11:52:45 AM

Quote from: redslope on February 15, 2018, 11:39:28 AM

Comparing Ponds to other "2 year players" you have to realize his 2 years are Frosh and Soph--not Jr. and Sr. after JUCO.  Last night he surpassed Chris' first 2 year total points in 4 less games (yes Chris did not get benefit of 3 point shot).  He already is the leading Freshman scorer in team history and baring injury should become out leading Soph scorer.  Thus when comparing him to others please also consider the chronological age when making comparisons.  The young man is a wonderful player and a pleasure to watch as long as he is here.

Sorry, I thought I mentioned that. Oh wait I did: "OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman."

Comparing Ponds to Hatten - IM not at all HO one of the best half dozen St John's players I've ever seen -  isn't negative. It's high praise. He's great, nobody's saying he isn't. If he stays four years he's going to be the player all subsequent players get compared to. He's just not that player yet.

Not there yet as a player? Or not there yet there in  terms of accomplishments? I doubt we’ll see a better five game stretch than this even if he stays two more years.

Either. It's been a wonderful five games and he's a wonderful player and maybe nobody will top his week. The game before this five he was oh for 12 from the floor. I doubt we'll see that either and anyway neither is a useful benchmark. I'm talking about the body of his work, his career. Mullin and Berry were more impactful - Boo Harvey was more impactful - and I can't remember one game they played much less how they did in any particular five game stretch. I don't understand the hurry to anoint him as the GOAT.

In 1972 Nate Colbert hit five home runs on six pitches and drove in 13 runs in a double header. I doubt we'll ever see that again. Nobody compares anybody to Nate Colbert.

I agree but have Hatten slightly lower in my ratings then you do. As far as Harvey goes didn't he hit like 3 game winners his Senior Year? And I think he scored 40 against Seton Hall that year.

Here is a good one for you. Who had better ST John's career, Felipe Lopez or Harrison?

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 12:22:27 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 11:52:45 AM

Quote from: redslope on February 15, 2018, 11:39:28 AM

Comparing Ponds to other "2 year players" you have to realize his 2 years are Frosh and Soph--not Jr. and Sr. after JUCO.  Last night he surpassed Chris' first 2 year total points in 4 less games (yes Chris did not get benefit of 3 point shot).  He already is the leading Freshman scorer in team history and baring injury should become out leading Soph scorer.  Thus when comparing him to others please also consider the chronological age when making comparisons.  The young man is a wonderful player and a pleasure to watch as long as he is here.

Sorry, I thought I mentioned that. Oh wait I did: "OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman."

Comparing Ponds to Hatten - IM not at all HO one of the best half dozen St John's players I've ever seen -  isn't negative. It's high praise. He's great, nobody's saying he isn't. If he stays four years he's going to be the player all subsequent players get compared to. He's just not that player yet.

Not there yet as a player? Or not there yet there in  terms of accomplishments? I doubt we’ll see a better five game stretch than this even if he stays two more years.

Either. It's been a wonderful five games and he's a wonderful player and maybe nobody will top his week. The game before this five he was oh for 12 from the floor. I doubt we'll see that either and anyway neither is a useful benchmark. I'm talking about the body of his work, his career. Mullin and Berry were more impactful - Boo Harvey was more impactful - and I can't remember one game they played much less how they did in any particular five game stretch. I don't understand the hurry to anoint him as the GOAT.

In 1972 Nate Colbert hit five home runs on six pitches and drove in 13 runs in a double header. I doubt we'll ever see that again. Nobody compares anybody to Nate Colbert.

All that is fair. I’m talking about if you take away the wins, the games played, the tourney appearances. Just strictly who is a better basketball player. The old eye test. I’m taking ponds over hardy without a question. And I’m probably taking him over Hatten.

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 01:06:51 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 12:22:27 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 11:52:45 AM

Quote from: redslope on February 15, 2018, 11:39:28 AM

Comparing Ponds to other "2 year players" you have to realize his 2 years are Frosh and Soph--not Jr. and Sr. after JUCO.  Last night he surpassed Chris' first 2 year total points in 4 less games (yes Chris did not get benefit of 3 point shot).  He already is the leading Freshman scorer in team history and baring injury should become out leading Soph scorer.  Thus when comparing him to others please also consider the chronological age when making comparisons.  The young man is a wonderful player and a pleasure to watch as long as he is here.

Sorry, I thought I mentioned that. Oh wait I did: "OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman."

Comparing Ponds to Hatten - IM not at all HO one of the best half dozen St John's players I've ever seen -  isn't negative. It's high praise. He's great, nobody's saying he isn't. If he stays four years he's going to be the player all subsequent players get compared to. He's just not that player yet.

Not there yet as a player? Or not there yet there in  terms of accomplishments? I doubt we’ll see a better five game stretch than this even if he stays two more years.

Either. It's been a wonderful five games and he's a wonderful player and maybe nobody will top his week. The game before this five he was oh for 12 from the floor. I doubt we'll see that either and anyway neither is a useful benchmark. I'm talking about the body of his work, his career. Mullin and Berry were more impactful - Boo Harvey was more impactful - and I can't remember one game they played much less how they did in any particular five game stretch. I don't understand the hurry to anoint him as the GOAT.

In 1972 Nate Colbert hit five home runs on six pitches and drove in 13 runs in a double header. I doubt we'll ever see that again. Nobody compares anybody to Nate Colbert.

I agree but have Hatten slightly lower in my ratings then you do. As far as Harvey goes didn't he hit like 3 game winners his Senior Year? And I think he scored 40 against Seton Hall that year.

Here is a good one for you. Who had better ST John's career, Felipe Lopez or Harrison?

Harrison, with no hesitation.

And I’m probably taking him over Hatten.

That's because you're young and in love.

Pick one of these guys

22 pts /5 reb /5 ass /3 st /44% FG /30 % three / 75 % FT

versus

21 pts /4 reb /3 ass /2 st /42 % FG /26 % three / 85 % FT

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 01:20:37 PM

And I’m probably taking him over Hatten.

That's because you're young and in love.

Pick one of these guys

22 pts /5 reb /5 ass /3 st /44% FG /30 % three / 75 % FT

versus

21 pts /4 reb /3 ass /2 st /42 % FG /26 % three / 85 % FT

Like I said, eye test. Regardless, neither of those are Ponds career or season stats so not sure the point.

Quote from: we are sju on February 15, 2018, 01:16:12 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 01:06:51 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 12:22:27 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 11:52:45 AM

Quote from: redslope on February 15, 2018, 11:39:28 AM

Comparing Ponds to other "2 year players" you have to realize his 2 years are Frosh and Soph--not Jr. and Sr. after JUCO.  Last night he surpassed Chris' first 2 year total points in 4 less games (yes Chris did not get benefit of 3 point shot).  He already is the leading Freshman scorer in team history and baring injury should become out leading Soph scorer.  Thus when comparing him to others please also consider the chronological age when making comparisons.  The young man is a wonderful player and a pleasure to watch as long as he is here.

Sorry, I thought I mentioned that. Oh wait I did: "OTOH Ponds is a sophomore whereas Hatten was an upperclassman."

Comparing Ponds to Hatten - IM not at all HO one of the best half dozen St John's players I've ever seen -  isn't negative. It's high praise. He's great, nobody's saying he isn't. If he stays four years he's going to be the player all subsequent players get compared to. He's just not that player yet.

Not there yet as a player? Or not there yet there in  terms of accomplishments? I doubt we’ll see a better five game stretch than this even if he stays two more years.

Either. It's been a wonderful five games and he's a wonderful player and maybe nobody will top his week. The game before this five he was oh for 12 from the floor. I doubt we'll see that either and anyway neither is a useful benchmark. I'm talking about the body of his work, his career. Mullin and Berry were more impactful - Boo Harvey was more impactful - and I can't remember one game they played much less how they did in any particular five game stretch. I don't understand the hurry to anoint him as the GOAT.

In 1972 Nate Colbert hit five home runs on six pitches and drove in 13 runs in a double header. I doubt we'll ever see that again. Nobody compares anybody to Nate Colbert.

I agree but have Hatten slightly lower in my ratings then you do. As far as Harvey goes didn't he hit like 3 game winners his Senior Year? And I think he scored 40 against Seton Hall that year.

Here is a good one for you. Who had better ST John's career, Felipe Lopez or Harrison?

Harrison, with no hesitation.

Taking away the hype factor I think I would go with Lopez. I know it was not what we were expecting but I think he was a better player for us.

BTW started reading Blood Meridian. So far so good but for me does not compare to Lonesome Dove. Different kind of books and authors. LD was more character driven which is more my preference. LD, Blood Meridian, True Grit and The Virginian are usually listed in some order as the best Western books.

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 01:36:42 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 01:20:37 PM

And I’m probably taking him over Hatten.

That's because you're young and in love.

Pick one of these guys

22 pts /5 reb /5 ass /3 st /44% FG /30 % three / 75 % FT

versus

21 pts /4 reb /3 ass /2 st /42 % FG /26 % three / 85 % FT

Like I said, eye test. Regardless, neither of those are Ponds career or season stats so not sure the point.

I know you never saw him play but at this point I think you have Ponds over Mullin

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 01:47:42 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 01:36:42 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 01:20:37 PM

And I’m probably taking him over Hatten.

That's because you're young and in love.

Pick one of these guys

22 pts /5 reb /5 ass /3 st /44% FG /30 % three / 75 % FT

versus

21 pts /4 reb /3 ass /2 st /42 % FG /26 % three / 85 % FT

Like I said, eye test. Regardless, neither of those are Ponds career or season stats so not sure the point.

I know you never saw him play but at this point I think you have Ponds over Mullin

Lol no. Thank god for youtube. But you saw him play and didn’t think he had a great looking jumper? Starting to wonder about your opinion on jump shooting form.

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 01:36:42 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 01:20:37 PM

And I’m probably taking him over Hatten.

That's because you're young and in love.

Pick one of these guys

22 pts /5 reb /5 ass /3 st /44% FG /30 % three / 75 % FT

versus

21 pts /4 reb /3 ass /2 st /42 % FG /26 % three / 85 % FT

Like I said, eye test. Regardless, neither of those are Ponds career or season stats so not sure the point.

Those are Ponds stats for this year (which according to you is the bench mark for all future generations) according to sports reference dot com and the point is that Hatten had better numbers across the board his best year.

There's no point in arguing the eye test. It's like arguing whether you like gin better than vodka or Beethoven better than Mozart. You like what you like. You like Ponds and nothing will dissuade you from your preference. Fine. Discussion over.

Quote from: we are sju on February 15, 2018, 01:56:46 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 01:47:42 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 15, 2018, 01:36:42 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 15, 2018, 01:20:37 PM

And I’m probably taking him over Hatten.

That's because you're young and in love.

Pick one of these guys

22 pts /5 reb /5 ass /3 st /44% FG /30 % three / 75 % FT

versus

21 pts /4 reb /3 ass /2 st /42 % FG /26 % three / 85 % FT

Like I said, eye test. Regardless, neither of those are Ponds career or season stats so not sure the point.

I know you never saw him play but at this point I think you have Ponds over Mullin

Lol no. Thank god for youtube. But you saw him play and didn’t think he had a great looking jumper? Starting to wonder about your opinion on jump shooting form.

Mullin is best jump shooter I have ever seen. It wasn't classic shot like say Allan Houston or Klay Thompson. It was sort of a snap shot. He shot it the same way every time and I was confused when he missed. You sure you are not confusing something I posted about BERRY? Who is my all time favorite basketball player.
Larry Wright had a really nice looking jumper. Do you really think I think he shot better than Mullin?
Two separate things. I like to breakdown jumpshots and hitters swings.
Ponds has a nice touch. He just has way to many moving parts. Especially when his feet are set. I think he could clean it up and but I don't think he will ever be a high % shooter.
I really like Simon. His shot is a hot mess. I am surprised when his shot goes in. I can like a guys game but still look at it objectively.