Ponds emergence vs Lovett quitting...

Curious to hear people's thoughts...

Ponds obviously had an incredible season and emerged as a big time player for St. John's this past season and will be one of the leading contenders to start next year as a Big East POY candidate.

How do you think the year would have played out if Lovett had not quit on the team..?

I think that if we had Lovett all year, we win 4 - 5 more games and were clearly an NIT team. The forward progress would have been clearly measurable and people might actually be excited about next season. Lovett would still be gone and Ponds probably is not testing the NBA Draft waters and people would be caring a lot less that other players left the program.

I know this is all "what if..." stuff but I am curious to hear thoughts....

Would you have rather had Lovett all year and see Ponds growth slowed a little or were you more pleased to see Ponds emerge as big time player with poor team results..? I don't think all that has happened would have impacted the roster for next year that much anyway. Losing Owens stings a little but if he went into next season looking to expand his offensive game, it could have been tough...

Curious to hear people's thoughts...

Ponds obviously had an incredible season and emerged as a big time player for St. John's this past season and will be one of the leading contenders to start next year as a Big East POY candidate.

How do you think the year would have played out if Lovett had not quit on the team..?

I think that if we had Lovett all year, we win 4 - 5 more games and were clearly an NIT team. The forward progress would have been clearly measurable and people might actually be excited about next season. Lovett would still be gone and Ponds probably is not testing the NBA Draft waters and people would be caring a lot less that other players left the program.

I know this is all "what if..." stuff but I am curious to hear thoughts....

Would you have rather had Lovett all year and see Ponds growth slowed a little or were you more pleased to see Ponds emerge as big time player with poor team results..? I don't think all that has happened would have impacted the roster for next year that much anyway. Losing Owens stings a little but if he went into next season looking to expand his offensive game, it could have been tough...

Honestly, Ponds didn't have a great start-to-finish season this year. 

His five game stretch from the second Xavier loss, through the Depaul victory, was as good a five game stretch as any player in the country had this year, but it also REALLY inflated his numbers for the year. Other then that, he got his points, but his percentages were really poor.  Now, you can't just take that away, but if they are replaced with even average Ponds performances, we might be looking at his year totally differently.

With Lovett, we would have had another guard to penetrate and pass the ball to Ponds in big spots, as well as another scorer that opposing teams would have to respect.  You might not have gotten the performances from Ponds that you did against Duke and Marquette, but you also would not have had the 0-12 he took against Butler (though he probably should not have played in that game), or the game against Seton Hall, where he was constantly dribbling out 25 seconds of the 30 second shot clock.  Still, his scoring numbers probably would have been about the same at the end of the season, only with better percentages, and more total points, because we would have played in postseason.

He probably still tests the NBA Draft if that were the case.

Shamorie was hiding an injury throughout Dec-Jan that hampered his production. There was a noticeable pep in his step once he got healthy and then he went on his tear. Had Marcus not left we might've squeaked out Mizzou in Orlando and we would've won at least 3-4 of the 10 straight losses. Revisionist history, but Marcus solely ruined Year3 and prevented any positive momentum for the program. The Duke&Nova wins along with beating GTown in Round1 of the BET saved this staff from really hot water.

Shamorie was hiding an injury throughout Dec-Jan that hampered his production. There was a noticeable pep in his step once he got healthy and then he went on his tear. Had Marcus not left we might've squeaked out Mizzou in Orlando and we would've won at least 3-4 of the 10 straight losses. Revisionist history, but Marcus solely ruined Year3 and prevented any positive momentum for the program. The Duke&Nova wins along with beating GTown in Round1 of the BET saved this staff from really hot water.

Marcus played the Missouri game, but I agree, he would have turned some of those losses into wins.

Also, I really don't think Shamorie was healthy at any point this season, fwiw.

Individual accolades are meaningless while team accomplishments are everything.

Every single right minded fan would've preferred Lovett staying over Ponds emergence.

If Lovett plays the entire year, I think we would have made the NCAA tourney.  It was unquestionably a negative to lose him.  Ponds may not have had as gaudy stats in certain games, but he would have been better off playing with Lovett.

If Lovett plays the whole year the following happens :

-We win five extra games ( minimum) remember our OOC schedule was fantastic
-With 21 wins and a top 10 S.O.S we’re clearly a tournament team ( probably win a game)
-J’arran Brooks probably doesn’t back out
-With J’arran Brooks in the fold, Owens leaving wouldn’t have mattered
-The perception of the university is gradually improved.

Marcus screwed us something fierce.

What I find very funny about this thread - the constant complainers are no where to be found...

The "Mullin sucks" crew doesn't get remotely involved in a possible real conversation about the team/program...

What I find very funny about this thread - the constant complainers are no where to be found...

The "Mullin sucks" crew doesn't get remotely involved in a possible real conversation about the team/program...

Maybe because it is hypothetical and no one really knows what would have happened. Some people I have spoken to have said his absence allowed Simon to flourish and during the good streak Ponds to shine. I recall we played a great game at SH without both Ponds and LoVett. I do recall that in the games LoVett did play he seemed to be hunting shots and was not shooting it at a high percentage. That said I have no idea how the season would have played out with LoVett and neither does anyone else.

This is called a delusion thread. No one on this board has any idea how the team would have done had LoVett stayed healthy. It's merely speculation, nothing more.  Starting to read more and more like a Jets board. Holy reality check.

Quote from: pmg911 on April 18, 2018, 11:55:40 AM

What I find very funny about this thread - the constant complainers are no where to be found...

The "Mullin sucks" crew doesn't get remotely involved in a possible real conversation about the team/program...

Maybe because it is hypothetical and no one really knows what would have happened. Some people I have spoken to have said his absence allowed Simon to flourish and during the good streak Ponds to shine. I recall we played a great game at SH without both Ponds and LoVett. I do recall that in the games LoVett did play he seemed to be hunting shots and was not shooting it at a high percentage. That said I have no idea how the season would have played out with LoVett and neither does anyone else.

Fair points and they make for good chatter...

The point of the post was to show how a huge chunk of posters don't want to bothered doing anything except complain...   their lack of contribution just proves my point...

I think they year plays out very differently had Lovett not quit....   but we will never know...

What I find very funny about this thread - the constant complainers are no where to be found...

The "Mullin sucks" crew doesn't get remotely involved in a possible real conversation about the team/program...

at the end of the day you are what your record says what you are. Doesn't matter if a player got hurt quit or whatever. All teams deal with stuff. My buddy OLV72 on redmen makes his case for improvement this past year. I might not agree completely but it's reasonable. I wasn't particularly happy this past year but the kids didnt quit and that says a lot ( well I guess Owens quit. lol ) but it is what It is. I think  what is generally acceptable is judging this next year. To me this is the most important year in a long time.

What I find very funny about this thread - the constant complainers are no where to be found...

The "Mullin sucks" crew doesn't get remotely involved in a possible real conversation about the team/program...

You lose 11 straight and return 3 players there’s no silver lining unless you make one up.

Quote from: pmg911 on April 18, 2018, 11:55:40 AM

What I find very funny about this thread - the constant complainers are no where to be found...

The "Mullin sucks" crew doesn't get remotely involved in a possible real conversation about the team/program...

You lose 11 straight and return 3 players there’s no silver lining unless you make one up.

And the streak ended with one of the better upsets in at least our history and capped that with a win at the eventual National Champions home. That's a pretty shiny silver lining and it's real.