Hardship waiver logic

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Poison

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Hardship waiver logic
« on: September 25, 2018, 01:37:17 PM »
This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Heron hasn’t been granted a hardship waiver because of how close St.John’s is to where his mother lives.

Connecticut is driving distance to St.John’s, but how much can the kid really help his mother if he’s going to school in Queens? How far is it really? 1.5/2 hours by car?

Who knows what the NCAA is thinking, but maybe this would be a clearer case for them if he transferred to a school that was 15/20 minutes away.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 01:38:02 PM by Poison »

ras

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2018, 03:18:13 PM »
I don’t think the NCAA would expect a player of Herons caliber to transfer to Fairfield U.

Poison

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2018, 03:36:29 PM »
I don’t think the NCAA would expect a player of Herons caliber to transfer to Fairfield U.

I don't think anyone would, but if he's transferring to be closer to his mother, and he's not that close, it may not add up for them.

Johnny23

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2018, 03:51:26 PM »
Is a decision expected to be made before the season begins? Or can the NCAA drag this on at their leisure?

These things usually don't work in St. John's favor so not expecting a favorable ruling.

SJUFAN

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2018, 06:33:41 PM »
I don’t think the NCAA would expect a player of Herons caliber to transfer to Fairfield U.

I don't think anyone would, but if he's transferring to be closer to his mother, and he's not that close, it may not add up for them.

Isn't SJU closer to his mother than Auburn? You don't believe there is a significant difference between having to drive 15 hours opposed to 2? To be closer doesn't need to mean closest.

Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2018, 06:44:22 PM »
Does this go back to when the NCAA had a real hard-on for St Johns because of the NIT suit back in the day?

The NCAA is a bunch of power conference, good ol' boys who have little regard for an NYC team let alone a Catholic university. We had an issue 5-10 years ago, same type of thing. St Johns had to hire a good ol' boy, NCAA friendly law firm; and the issue was settled within days.

Poison

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2018, 07:21:47 PM »
I don’t think the NCAA would expect a player of Herons caliber to transfer to Fairfield U.

I don't think anyone would, but if he's transferring to be closer to his mother, and he's not that close, it may not add up for them.

Isn't SJU closer to his mother than Auburn? You don't believe there is a significant difference between having to drive 15 hours opposed to 2? To be closer doesn't need to mean closest.

Did I say that I don’t believe there’s a significant difference?

Maybe the NCAA thinks that if it’s really that dire of a situation he can play for Fairfield.

Has to be some reason that they haven’t given the kid a hardship waiver.

Poison

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2018, 07:24:29 PM »
Does this go back to when the NCAA had a real hard-on for St Johns because of the NIT suit back in the day?

The NCAA is a bunch of power conference, good ol' boys who have little regard for an NYC team let alone a Catholic university. We had an issue 5-10 years ago, same type of thing. St Johns had to hire a good ol' boy, NCAA friendly law firm; and the issue was settled within days.


The NCAA doesn’t see value in helping St.John’s.

SJUFAN

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2018, 07:50:24 PM »
I don’t think the NCAA would expect a player of Herons caliber to transfer to Fairfield U.

I don't think anyone would, but if he's transferring to be closer to his mother, and he's not that close, it may not add up for them.

Isn't SJU closer to his mother than Auburn? You don't believe there is a significant difference between having to drive 15 hours opposed to 2? To be closer doesn't need to mean closest.

Did I say that I don’t believe there’s a significant difference?

Maybe the NCAA thinks that if it’s really that dire of a situation he can play for Fairfield.

Has to be some reason that they haven’t given the kid a hardship waiver.

No you speculated that Heron hasn’t been granted a hardship waiver because of how close St.John’s is to where his mother lives, which happens to be located significantly closer than his previous school.

Also it's not that they haven't given him his waiver, they haven't made a decision yet. They may very well give him his waiver, lets be patient and see how it plays out. I'm cautiously optimistic. 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 01:39:42 AM by SJUFAN »

Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2018, 03:04:01 AM »
I don’t think the NCAA would expect a player of Herons caliber to transfer to Fairfield U.

I don't think anyone would, but if he's transferring to be closer to his mother, and he's not that close, it may not add up for them.

Isn't SJU closer to his mother than Auburn? You don't believe there is a significant difference between having to drive 15 hours opposed to 2? To be closer doesn't need to mean closest.

Did I say that I don’t believe there’s a significant difference?

Maybe the NCAA thinks that if it’s really that dire of a situation he can play for Fairfield.

Has to be some reason that they haven’t given the kid a hardship waiver.

No you speculated that Heron hasn’t been granted a hardship waiver because of how close St.John’s is to where his mother lives, which happens to be located significantly closer than his previous school.

Also it's not that they haven't given him his waiver, they haven't made a decision yet. They may very well give him his waiver, lets be patient and see how it plays out. I'm cautiously optimistic. 


Remember that Heron did not start this process until after he withdrew from the NBA draft in late May.  Most of the hardship waivers that were granted were probably filed in March or April. IMO, it's only fair that those guys should hear their fates first.

I agree with SJUfan. Let's let the process play out, before making assumptions.

Marillac

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2018, 08:58:47 AM »
Being within 65 miles of his mom means he can reasonably meet her once every week or two (even if it's halfway), but more importantly she can drive (or take a train) to most of his games. I'd imagine someone suffering from concussion symptoms would be discouraged from flying.

MSG is 50 miles from Fairfield. People commute to work from there to NYC daily. Also, St. John's is the closest high major to his parents. All of this bodes well for him and the sudden leniency the NCAA is showing waiver requests suggests this will happen.

Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2018, 09:29:57 AM »
I dont think the question is strange in the least. Obviously distance means something.
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

redslope

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2018, 12:39:44 PM »
I have a problem with the caption used in this topic as it was written---"Hardship waiver" and "Logic" do not belong in the same sentence/caption

Marillac

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2018, 01:05:40 PM »
I dont think the question is strange in the least. Obviously distance means something.

It means a lot more than just something. If he transferred further away he would not a valid claim. The proximity to his mother is his strongest argument.


derk

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2018, 02:20:03 PM »
I don’t think the NCAA would expect a player of Herons caliber to transfer to Fairfield U.

I don't think anyone would, but if he's transferring to be closer to his mother, and he's not that close, it may not add up for them.

Isn't SJU closer to his mother than Auburn? You don't believe there is a significant difference between having to drive 15 hours opposed to 2? To be closer doesn't need to mean closest.

Did I say that I don’t believe there’s a significant difference?

Maybe the NCAA thinks that if it’s really that dire of a situation he can play for Fairfield.

Has to be some reason that they haven’t given the kid a hardship waiver.

They can't think that he should be forced to the closest school when that would be a step down, and there are other alternatives.

Foad

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2018, 03:12:21 PM »
This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Heron hasn’t been granted a hardship waiver because of how close St.John’s is to where his mother lives.

Connecticut is driving distance to St.John’s, but how much can the kid really help his mother if he’s going to school in Queens? How far is it really? 1.5/2 hours by car?

Who knows what the NCAA is thinking, but maybe this would be a clearer case for them if he transferred to a school that was 15/20 minutes away.

Interesting hypothesis but it assumes that the NCAA is anything other than a corrupt self interested organization that caroms between self-interest and capriciousness.

I don't see how proximity to the family homestead (relatively speaking i.e., half and hour versus two hours) can be a consideration. The NCAA considers " responsibilities related to the care of the family member" - but a student athlete cannot be expected to provide care-taking during the school week; regular weekend visits two hours away on the other hand that relieve regular care-givers, that seems reasonable.

Another thing the NCAA considers is "is it the best thing for the athlete and his or her family is to allow the athlete to play immediately." It certainly is the best thing to allow a player like MH who might declare for the draft after sitting a year to play CBB right away , as opposed to playing CBB never.

Finally there's the politics (aka money) of it. On the one hand the NCAA only cares about football conferences, so there's little down side to refusing to granting an SJU player a waiver. OTOH there might be considerable downside to refusing a waiver to a program with a new AD with close ties to darth vader Mike Schrewshrenki coached by a guy who's in the HOF twice.

That said, I've consulted my magic eight ball and and according to it all signs point to maybe. 

Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2018, 05:48:36 PM »
I think if the staff had someone who actually knows the rule book, Herron would be eligible

Foad

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Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2018, 06:21:47 PM »
I think if the staff had someone who actually knows the rule book, Herron would be eligible

You've said many stupid things, this ranks up there.

Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2018, 06:42:07 PM »
I think if the staff had someone who actually knows the rule book, Herron would be eligible

You've said many stupid things, this ranks up there.

Its early

Re: Hardship waiver logic
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2018, 05:52:55 PM »
This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if Heron hasn’t been granted a hardship waiver because of how close St.John’s is to where his mother lives.

Connecticut is driving distance to St.John’s, but how much can the kid really help his mother if he’s going to school in Queens? How far is it really? 1.5/2 hours by car?

Who knows what the NCAA is thinking, but maybe this would be a clearer case for them if he transferred to a school that was 15/20 minutes away.

Interesting hypothesis but it assumes that the NCAA is anything other than a corrupt self interested organization that caroms between self-interest and capriciousness.

I don't see how proximity to the family homestead (relatively speaking i.e., half and hour versus two hours) can be a consideration. The NCAA considers " responsibilities related to the care of the family member" - but a student athlete cannot be expected to provide care-taking during the school week; regular weekend visits two hours away on the other hand that relieve regular care-givers, that seems reasonable.

Another thing the NCAA considers is "is it the best thing for the athlete and his or her family is to allow the athlete to play immediately." It certainly is the best thing to allow a player like MH who might declare for the draft after sitting a year to play CBB right away , as opposed to playing CBB never.

Finally there's the politics (aka money) of it. On the one hand the NCAA only cares about football conferences, so there's little down side to refusing to granting an SJU player a waiver. OTOH there might be considerable downside to refusing a waiver to a program with a new AD with close ties to darth vader Mike Schrewshrenki coached by a guy who's in the HOF twice.

That said, I've consulted my magic eight ball and and according to it all signs point to maybe. 

It is interesting that within days of hiring a Duke Athletic Director that Heron becomes eligible almost 48 hours later with an official announcement to be made one week after the announcement of hiring same Athletic Director.

Maybe it shows we figured out how to make hires, or just another example of the NCAA is still the good ol' boy association.