NET Rankings

To understand this...

If SJU has a great season to include a solid Big East season and a nice run in the BET, his schedule will not hurt the team in seeding....


But!!!

If he team struggles in BE play still finishes at or above 500. and only wins one BET game, and puts the. In the bubble.

This schedule will hurt us?

Are these rankings released weekly?

To understand this...

If SJU has a great season to include a solid Big East season and a nice run in the BET, his schedule will not hurt the team in seeding....


But!!!

If he team struggles in BE play still finishes at or above 500. and only wins one BET game, and puts the. In the bubble.

This schedule will hurt us?

That's a very fair outlook and scenario.

New NET ranking has St. John's at 33. These close wins aren't giving  us any help. Let's see what beating these upcoming cupcakes by 30 does.

29th in NET.  27 in coaches poll, 32 in AP. 

29th in NET.  27 in coaches poll, 32 in AP. 

335th in the minds of many "fans."

29th in NET.  27 in coaches poll, 32 in AP. 

Embarrassing.

I am fascinated by Ken Pom's ratings which are readjusted within an hour of the end of a game, We are 55th in his standings after our last win and have slipped about 20 positions gradually week after week and win after win. It's probably the computers view of the scheduel,   I am pleased with the schedule; Billy Donovan who historically played pussy cats in the Florida OOC schedule told me it was his job to teach his team to be winners first.  The AD at Syracuse scheduled an amusing early season for years (Colgate, LeMoyne, Siena, Binghamton, Albany), always at the dome with Boeheim and the Orange almost always  entering the BE season in the top 15.
This is the first time we are trying it and it is worth the try to get these kids to know each other. I've seen a lot of StJ  going back over 60 years and this is the most athletic team we have ever fielded; No.2 might be the best guard or perhaps the best player we have ever seen when he is done. I am enjoying this experiment. We'll see if it worked out in a few weeks. Until then, enjoy.

I am fascinated by Ken Pom's ratings which are readjusted within an hour of the end of a game, We are 55th in his standings after our last win and have slipped about 20 positions gradually week after week and win after win. It's probably the computers view of the scheduel,   I am pleased with the schedule; Billy Donovan who historically played pussy cats in the Florida OOC schedule told me it was his job to teach his team to be winners first.  The AD at Syracuse scheduled an amusing early season for years (Colgate, LeMoyne, Siena, Binghamton, Albany), always at the dome with Boeheim and the Orange almost always  entering the BE season in the top 15.
This is the first time we are trying it and it is worth the try to get these kids to know each other. I've seen a lot of StJ  going back over 60 years and this is the most athletic team we have ever fielded; No.2 might be the best guard or perhaps the best player we have ever seen when he is done. I am enjoying this experiment. We'll see if it worked out in a few weeks. Until then, enjoy.

KenPom counts our Barclays games as semi-home games while the NET counts them as neutral court games.  That is a big difference for SOS purposes.

I am fascinated by Ken Pom's ratings which are readjusted within an hour of the end of a game, We are 55th in his standings after our last win and have slipped about 20 positions gradually week after week and win after win. It's probably the computers view of the scheduel,   I am pleased with the schedule; Billy Donovan who historically played pussy cats in the Florida OOC schedule told me it was his job to teach his team to be winners first.  The AD at Syracuse scheduled an amusing early season for years (Colgate, LeMoyne, Siena, Binghamton, Albany), always at the dome with Boeheim and the Orange almost always  entering the BE season in the top 15.
This is the first time we are trying it and it is worth the try to get these kids to know each other. I've seen a lot of StJ  going back over 60 years and this is the most athletic team we have ever fielded; No.2 might be the best guard or perhaps the best player we have ever seen when he is done. I am enjoying this experiment. We'll see if it worked out in a few weeks. Until then, enjoy.

Based on the rankings leading up to the game, we were expected to beat MSM by 25.  We only won by 14.  We beat GaTech by 3 in a game we were supposed to win by about 10.  KP bases the rankings off of Efficiency ratings.  If you play one of the worst teams in basketball (MSM) and don't blow them out, chances are you were not very efficient.

Another reason for the disparity b/w KP and NET is largely based on SOS, because at the start of the year, KP understands that beating a 5-1 Columbia team is different than beating a 5-1 Michigan State team.  The NET and RPI do not.  This should and already has begun to get adjusted, as the NET and RPI are provided with more information.

Also, don't forget, Syracuse missed the dance on multiple occasions with more than 20 wins because of their early season non-conf schedule.  That's what myself and others have opined about; the fear that this could come back to bite us, even if we go 12-1.

Based on the rankings leading up to the game, we were expected to beat MSM by 25.  We only won by 14.  We beat GaTech by 3 in a game we were supposed to win by about 10.  KP bases the rankings off of Efficiency ratings.  If you play one of the worst teams in basketball (MSM) and don't blow them out, chances are you were not very efficient.

Another reason for the disparity b/w KP and NET is largely based on SOS, because at the start of the year, KP understands that beating a 5-1 Columbia team is different than beating a 5-1 Michigan State team.  The NET and RPI do not.  This should and already has begun to get adjusted, as the NET and RPI are provided with more information.

Also, don't forget, Syracuse missed the dance on multiple occasions with more than 20 wins because of their early season non-conf schedule.  That's what myself and others have opined about; the fear that this could come back to bite us, even if we go 12-1.

Syracuse was notorious for scheduling not only cupcakes but nearly all, and in some years all, OOC games at home. That is why our 2018 OOC schedule will never be the cause of us missing the tournament if we win 12 games and then finish .500 in conference.

We have two trie road games and three neutral court games as iooosed to 12-13 home games like the old Syracuse teams.

don't forget, Syracuse missed the dance on multiple occasions with more than 20 wins because of their early season non-conf schedule.  That's what myself and others have opined about; the fear that this could come back to bite us, even if we go 12-1.

It's happened twice. Which I guess qualifies as multiple occasions, barely, and that's if you consider SOS's of 55 and 64 (out of 328, top 20 percent) bad and a reflection of their OOC schedule. Otherwise it's never happened.

The years SU has missed the tournament in years that they won 20 games since the inception of the BE:

In 2008 they won 19 games and missed the tournament but ended up with 21 wins counting the NIT.

In 2007 they won 21 games and missed the tournament with a SOS of 55.

In 2002 they won 20 games and missed the tournament with a SOS of 64.

In 1981 they finished 15-11 and finished with 22 games when they won the NIT.

What I recall is that SU was penalized for not leaving NY state: those two years they played almost their entire OOC schedule at the Carrier Dome and otherwise at MSG.

It's happened twice. Which I guess qualifies as multiple occasions, barely, and that's if you consider SOS's of 55 and 64 (out of 328, top 20 percent) bad and a reflection of their OOC schedule. Otherwise it's never happened.

The years SU has missed the tournament in years that they won 20 games since the inception of the BE:

In 2008 they won 19 games and missed the tournament but ended up with 21 wins counting the NIT.

In 2007 they won 21 games and missed the tournament with a SOS of 55.

In 2002 they won 20 games and missed the tournament with a SOS of 64.

In 1981 they finished 15-11 and finished with 22 games when they won the NIT.

What I recall is that SU was penalized for not leaving NY state: those two years they played almost their entire OOC schedule at the Carrier Dome and otherwise at MSG.

They were penalized for not leaving NY state a couple of times, but I think the fact that Boeheim's overall system works almost always is good reason to believe that the scheduling aspect of it could work for us. All that matters is that the team is ready for conference play. That's the point of Boeheim's easy schedules.

What I saw on Wednesday was a team working to get ready for conference play by working on things that needed to be addressed. This is the season it has to all come together for this staff, and for these players.

Thanks for all the expanded thinking and opinions, This is a great service with smart fans and helpful observations. Keep up the good work (keep the overly emotional complainers under tow)   Our schedule this year is a reasonable "try". We should support our coaches and team in the effort. At the end of it all, they are FUN to watch   and just think, if it works out as planned were going to be the happiest fans on earth . for the first time in 17 years. I'm all in at 81; I want to see it happen a couple of more times. Go Johnnies.

They were penalized for not leaving NY state a couple of times, but I think the fact that Boeheim's overall system works almost always is good reason to believe that the scheduling aspect of it could work for us. All that matters is that the team is ready for conference play. That's the point of Boeheim's easy schedules.

This is not the BE of yester year. Having 5-6 teams ranked in the top 25 and others on the bubble year in, year out, contributes to that strategy. If SU played in the A10 I'm not quite sure they would be able to do that. Not saying the new BE is comparable to the A10, but we are not the old BE either. I'm sure that was the factor that allowed SU to take that approach.   

What I saw on Wednesday was a team working to get ready for conference play by working on things that needed to be addressed. This is the season it has to all come together for this staff, and for these players.

Is no one else perplexed as to why we only had a 8 man rotation playing the worst team in D1? I would like to see Roberts and Williams get some minutes. They can contribute defensively better than Trimble and Clark. So if we are working on things, should we not also work on our defense?

I would like to see Roberts and Williams get some minutes. They can contribute defensively better than Trimble and Clark. So if we are working on things, should we not also work on our defense?

I can hardly remember any freshman I'd like to see play ever, but you want freshman Roberts - which I don't know how you know he can "contribute better defensively" over anyone, he's played 4 minutes this year - to get minutes over senior Clark? And then what happens when he does and they win by nine instead of 15? Pandemonium erupts.

With all the talent on this team, if the difference between them winning and losing is garbage minute production from three three star freshman, 8 through 10 on the bench, they should get rid of the BB program altogether.

Roberts doesn't figure into the plans this year. Why is that so hard for people to accept? Do you guys think the three inches he has over Figueroa makes up for his lack of skill at this point?

Freshmen bigs usually suck. Justin Patton was redshirted at Creighton knowing full well he was a first round pick and had zero chance to get that redshirt year back. He was too weak and he wasn't ready.

Hall just beat Kentucky. Plenty chances for us to make the dance. If  we can't pick up 5 good wins along the way in this league we don't belong. I am very happy the way the new big east looks. If no one jumps they will be fine. A good SJU would help.

It's happened twice. Which I guess qualifies as multiple occasions, barely, and that's if you consider SOS's of 55 and 64 (out of 328, top 20 percent) bad and a reflection of their OOC schedule. Otherwise it's never happened.

To be honest I thought it was more than two, but that seems to be accurate.  As you said, still qualifies as multiple.  I believe the SOS numbers you are referencing are total season, whereas we're discussing specifically the OOC SOS.

Based on my not so great memory, you are right about them staying at home those years.  Problem is, our "road" game was at Rutgers, and two of our "neutral" games were in Brooklyn, so outside of the GT win, we're in the same position.
 
I am not saying our schedule is the worst thing that's ever happened to St. john's basketball, because I think that finishing 9-9 in conf at 12-1 non-conf should still get us in the dance.  I am just stating the fact that we play a poo-poo OOC schedule this year that might affect our seeding come March, and a slip-up in these last 4 cupcake games could mean that 9-9 might leave us with work to do.

To be honest I thought it was more than two, but that seems to be accurate.  As you said, still qualifies as multiple.  I believe the SOS numbers you are referencing are total season, whereas we're discussing specifically the OOC SOS.

Yes, I don't cite statistics in order to lie or confuse the rubes. I cite stats to reinforce my observations. That said, I've recently resolved to not be as much of a cvnt as I usually am, except I'm still going to shit on TonyD at every opportunity, because he's an imbecile, so this is me not trying to be a cvnt or foment discord. But (a) multiple occasions that happen twice are random if they happen one less time and (b) the OOC schedule doesn't matter of you play in one the top conferences in the country and win most of your games; and (c) if SJ doesn't perform in conference it doesn't matter what they did in November: if they run the table no one is going to care about their SOS in November and if they don't no one's going to care about their SOS when they went 13-0. In the latter case they're at the margins and if they're at the margins it doesn't matter, because they're an early bounce.