Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX

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derk

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Re: Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2019, 03:31:38 PM »
Shades of Chris Taft.

Yes and a ton of those 6'0 point guards from St. Rays I think,

Poison

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Re: Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2019, 03:35:59 PM »
Fellas we're talking recruiting. I'm not sure how many times it has to be pointed out that Mike Anderson is a very good basketball coach who has a very good track record.

It's very fair to say Norm Roberts and Mike Anderson both brought in lower rated perhaps under the radar talent.

Norm would have ruined every recruit he landed at St.John’s if not for Lavin and his staff. Players haven’t improved under the last three coaches.

As always, nothing has been harder to achieve at St.John’s than player development. That’s what CMA should be judged on even as early as this season. Regardless of the time constraints, CMA picked players to come here now. We all should see why beyond just filling out the roster.

Poison

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Re: Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2019, 03:37:25 PM »
Yes and a ton of those 6'0 point guards from St. Rays I think,

Krauser, Benhanin and Ramon owned us.

SJUFAN

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Re: Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2019, 07:25:24 PM »
Fellas we're talking recruiting. I'm not sure how many times it has to be pointed out that Mike Anderson is a very good basketball coach who has a very good track record.

It's very fair to say Norm Roberts and Mike Anderson both brought in lower rated perhaps under the radar talent.

My point is you can’t say the recruits Norm brought in were “marginal” based on the success of the team when a new staff took over. That was the best season SJU has had this millennium. It’s wasn’t just due to coaching.

You say the recruits CMA has brought in are marginal, I say let the results dictate that, not their perspective rankings out of HS. A lot will depend on the coach and I believe CMA is up for the task.

Re: Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2019, 10:19:40 PM »
Taft, as I recall, was ranked much higher than Max, not that I liked missing out on the latter.

Yes and a ton of those 6'0 point guards from St. Rays I think,

Re: Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2019, 10:29:56 PM »
You are right, of course, in that getting really good players is the key to sustained success, and that rankings are very often a good measuring stick for how good a kid will be at the college level.  Dave is also right in that the goal should be to get really talented kids and coach them up.

Given when he was hired and where we are as a program, I'm going to reserve judgment on Anderson's recruiting ability.  Perhaps some of these kids end up better than the rankings predict, through coaching, player development and the staff's ability to find some diamonds in the rough.  Perhaps we start getting higher level kids in the next class now that the staff has more time to develop relationships and won't be "late to the game".

Willard's been at the Hall for almost a decade and was terrible for half that period.  Yes, he sold his soul and God knows what else to get Whitehead/Angel in the door, which turned things around and got him an extension.  But if you look at their squad now, ranked consensus top 15 in the country, I believe it only has 2/3 kids who were ranked in the top 100 out of HS (Powell, Cale and the FSU transfer, and Powell/Cale were closer to 100 than 50 as I recall).  They've had success the past few years developing kids who were not rated as highly as the kind of recruits we'd want, making sure they are happy and stay through their junior/senior years so as to receive maximum benefit of that development.  Anderson's coaching resume is better than Willard's, and so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the staff can develop the kids they've brought on into solid contributors, with some on-court success and additional recruiting investment time leading to us getting some more highly ranked kids in future classes.


Two questions:

1. Can you name some high major programs or coaches that have had sustained success recruiting inferior players?

2. If good coaching and inferior players is a recipe for success why do so many elite coaches risk their livelihoods paying for highly ranked players?

Re: Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX
« Reply #46 on: October 16, 2019, 10:37:19 PM »
My point is you can’t say the recruits Norm brought in were “marginal” based on the success of the team when a new staff took over. That was the best season SJU has had this millennium. It’s wasn’t just due to coaching.

You say the recruits CMA has brought in are marginal, I say let the results dictate that, not their perspective rankings out of HS. A lot will depend on the coach and I believe CMA is up for the task.

I think there are some parallels but I wasn't talking about DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, and co. Now some of these guys didn't pan out but overall the disparity isn't far.

Granted Anderson is superior coach but the talent gap will be significant group to make up. 

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Foad

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Re: Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2019, 04:02:31 PM »
Given when he was hired and where we are as a program, I'm going to reserve judgment on Anderson's recruiting ability.  Perhaps some of these kids end up better than the rankings predict, through coaching, player development and the staff's ability to find some diamonds in the rough.  Perhaps we start getting higher level kids in the next class now that the staff has more time to develop relationships and won't be "late to the game".

Obviously Coach Third Choice deserves a pass for this year and maybe even for next. Where the problem might arise is if he has so much faith in his system that he thinks it doesn't matter what players he plugs into it. Because there are other coaches in the league who have systems that have had more success than CTC had at Arkansas and if they get elite players and CTC doesn't CTC will be as successful at SJ as he was at Arkansas, which is about as successful as Mullin and Lavin were over about the same time frame and SJ fired those guys for not being successful enough. And then we're starting over again.

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Willard's been at the Hall for almost a decade and was terrible for half that period.  Yes, he sold his soul and God knows what else to get Whitehead/Angel in the door, which turned things around and got him an extension.  But if you look at their squad now, ranked consensus top 15 in the country, I believe it only has 2/3 kids who were ranked in the top 100 out of HS (Powell, Cale and the FSU transfer, and Powell/Cale were closer to 100 than 50 as I recall).  They've had success the past few years developing kids who were not rated as highly as the kind of recruits we'd want, making sure they are happy and stay through their junior/senior years so as to receive maximum benefit of that development.  Anderson's coaching resume is better than Willard's, and so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the staff can develop the kids they've brought on into solid contributors, with some on-court success and additional recruiting investment time leading to us getting some more highly ranked kids in future classes.

What Willard's success demonstrates to me is how badly the administration has mismanaged the program. Willard was hired the same year as Lavin. Lavin went 92-72 in five years with two NCAA appearances and got fired. Willard went 82-81 (with one winning season, which is one fewer than Norm had) and got extended and now they're in the national conversation, at least in the preseason. If that does not demonstrate the importance of continuity, what does.

Marillac

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Re: Max Amadasun- OSL- 6'10 PF, BX
« Reply #48 on: October 17, 2019, 07:24:56 PM »
My point is you can’t say the recruits Norm brought in were “marginal” based on the success of the team when a new staff took over. That was the best season SJU has had this millennium. It’s wasn’t just due to coaching.

You say the recruits CMA has brought in are marginal, I say let the results dictate that, not their perspective rankings out of HS. A lot will depend on the coach and I believe CMA is up for the task.

Anyone but Norm Roberts can win with 11 upperclassmen.