Jay Wright to Retire

When was St Johns a blue blood program?

Nova wasn't a blue blood, it became one. It is one now, blue blood meaning dynastic.

My point is only this. There aren't many programs that go from being blue bloods - prominent in the national conversation - over a period of time to not being in the national conversation. This because the factors that create dynastic programs are for the most part baked into environments of those programs. Indiana isn't quite the Indiana of Hoosiers but it has the potential energy to be and meanwhile everyone knows who the coach is. UCLA and Kentucky will always be part of the national conversation. Louisville took a bit of a misstep but will be back in less time than it took Scot Drew to pay off enough recruits to win a NC. Even Syracuse is going to survive Boeheim's departure, there being no shortage of corrupt used car dealers in upstate NY.

The programs that haven't survived are socio-economically unique: St John's, DePaul, throw in Georgetown. Go back further: Columbia, NYU. Notice any similarities? It's not religion, Providence and Notre Dame are fine. How many people are there in the information age who are going to commit to four years of garbage basketball at an academically disadvantaged mediocre school in shitty part of a dying city where everyone's priority is defunding the police. I was in Manhattan recently, it smalls like Dinkins is mayor. Whereas otoh they can go to Idaho and be on the telly three times a week.

I sometimes wonder whether Lou picked Mahoney for spite, knowing he'd fail, the same way Tiberius championed Caligula.

When was St Johns “dynastic”?

When was St Johns “ a blue blood program”?

If you think we're going to argue about what words mean you're going to be disappointed

When was St Johns “dynastic”?

You really are exquisitely stupid. Don't ever change. Except you screen name obviously, you'll want to change that every time your absurd opinions become too humiliating for you to bear. Then you'll become ProudRedAlum4Ever and no one will know that it's you.

Nova wasn't a blue blood, it became one. It is one now, blue blood meaning dynastic.

My point is only this. There aren't many programs that go from being blue bloods - prominent in the national conversation - over a period of time to not being in the national conversation. This because the factors that create dynastic programs are for the most part baked into environments of those programs. Indiana isn't quite the Indiana of Hoosiers but it has the potential energy to be and meanwhile everyone knows who the coach is. UCLA and Kentucky will always be part of the national conversation. Louisville took a bit of a misstep but will be back in less time than it took Scot Drew to pay off enough recruits to win a NC. Even Syracuse is going to survive Boeheim's departure, there being no shortage of corrupt used car dealers in upstate NY.

The programs that haven't survived are socio-economically unique: St John's, DePaul, throw in Georgetown. Go back further: Columbia, NYU. Notice any similarities? It's not religion, Providence and Notre Dame are fine. How many people are there in the information age who are going to commit to four years of garbage basketball at an academically disadvantaged mediocre school in shitty part of a dying city where everyone's priority is defunding the police. I was in Manhattan recently, it smalls like Dinkins is mayor. Whereas otoh they can go to Idaho and be on the telly three times a week.

I sometimes wonder whether Lou picked Mahoney for spite, knowing he'd fail, the same way Tiberius championed Caligula.

If you think we're going to argue about what words mean - When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less - you're going to be disappointed. Blue blood I used meaning having dynastic energy. SJU had that from the wonder five forward, through Lapchick and a bit of Louie, until Mahoney killed it. I'd have thought that as a proud alum you'd have known that, but maybe no high school senior at Barstool Sports has made a blog post about it, so you missed it.

St Johns was never dynastic or a blue blood under Looie. That is a laughable comment.

I believe under Looie we were number 3 in all time wins.

We were ranked third and fourth in all time wins and winning percentage in the 70's. Oh how the mighty have fallen (and seemingly can't get up).

We were a program with a long history. We weren’t any dynasty in the 1970s or any time since.

Sounds like by your standards the only blue blood dynastic program in the history of college basketball would be UCLA and only for a period of 12 years. Not the way it works in most people's minds where you take in the whole history of the program.

Blue bloods ... Blue bloods ... Blue bloods

That is a misstatement. Blue bloods win multiple championships over time. Blue bloods make multiple final fours over time. Blue bloods are contenders to go deep in the tournament more years than not over time. St. John’s was never at that level under Lou C or since. I’m not blaming Louie, we just weren’t at that level as a program.

You should pay attention to FOAD who likely forgot more about college basketball than you could ever know.

As for being a Proud Alumn, you are starting to sound more like a proud Mary.  I don't want to get stuck on adjectives with you but St. John's from the 50's through the 80's and through a span of over 50 years was synonymous with perennial success in college basketball. From the Frank McGuire final four years to Joe Lapchick's NIT championship years to Lou Carnesecca final four years in the 80's, few programs on the  northeast maintained the annual success and winning culture than St. John’s.  As someone mentioned at one point under Lou Carnesecca SJ was around 5th in all time wins.
Even today, after the precipitous fall from perennial national power, St. John's is still 9th in total wins.
There are schools like Syracuse, Georgetown, Gonzaga, Louisville, Connecticut, Arkansas, Villanova to name a few that are well below St. John's in win totals.  That is still a selling point. We have coaches and players in the Hall of Fame.
As for winning national championships, your example of success is microscopic in comparison to reality.
Only a handful of schools have one more than 4 national championships. Outside of a handful of blue bloods like Ucla, Kentucky and North Carolina, most blue bloods have won only ONE national championship.
As previously stated, piss poor decision making by our very provincial thinking Vincentian leadership, has led to a moribund program that is St. John's today but it could literally change in a season.
Coaches like Brian Mahoney, Norman Roberts and Chris Mullin had no business coaching college basketball.
Finally, I look forward to your valuable insight in future discussions.
WE ARE......

You should pay attention to FOAD who likely forgot more about college basketball than you could ever know.

As for being a Proud Alumn, you are starting to sound more like a proud Mary.  I don't want to get stuck on adjectives with you but St. John's from the 50's through the 80's and through a span of over 50 years was synonymous with perennial success in college basketball. From the Frank McGuire final four years to Joe Lapchick's NIT championship years to Lou Carnesecca final four years in the 80's, few programs on the  northeast maintained the annual success and winning culture than St. John’s.  As someone mentioned at one point under Lou Carnesecca SJ was around 5th in all time wins.
Even today, after the precipitous fall from perennial national power, St. John's is still 9th in total wins.
There are schools like Syracuse, Georgetown, Gonzaga, Louisville, Connecticut, Arkansas, Villanova to name a few that are well below St. John's in win totals.  That is still a selling point. We have coaches and players in the Hall of Fame.
As for winning national championships, your example of success is microscopic in comparison to reality.
Only a handful of schools have one more than 4 national championships. Outside of a handful of blue bloods like Ucla, Kentucky and North Carolina, most blue bloods have won only ONE national championship.
As previously stated, piss poor decision making by our very provincial thinking Vincentian leadership, has led to a moribund program that is St. John's today but it could literally change in a season.
Coaches like Brian Mahoney, Norman Roberts and Chris Mullin had no business coaching college basketball.
Finally, I look forward to your valuable insight in future discussions.
WE ARE......

We were never "synonymous with perennial success" at the level of any blue blood program

And no one said St John's was, thus is your strawman DOA.