how important is upperslassmen in collegeball

this is something that I think gets overlooked with this team. Not one senior leader. No disrespect to tomas but seriously not one senior or junior leader to take charge. It's hard to be lead by ur own peers. U need someone who has been battled tested numerous times. But maybe I'm talking out my neck. Can anyone remember a team that has faired well with a bunch of frosh and sophmores?

the fab 5.

the cuse team that won it with melo.

Ohio State '06

4 freshman
Oden
Conley
Cook
Lightly

and this is norm's fault for putting himself in a circumstance like this.

and this is norm's fault for putting himself in a circumstance like this.

Certainly I agree that Norm constructed this team and must shoulder the blame for the present makeup of the roster.

Also agree that there are teams that have had freshmen leaders, normally NBA early entry candidates but freshmen leaders just the same. 

However back to KOB's point that likely is about this particular SJU team, if one is to accept that there are no early entry candidates and in fact as many proclaim this team looks a lot more like a mid major than a BE team then look back at those types of teams that have had runs in the dance or had a few surprise upsets early and I pretty sure you'll find that, in this absence of All American candidates, successful teams of this ilk had veteran leadership.  I think that's the point he's trying to make.

the fab 5.

the cuse team that won it with melo.

Wasn't Hakim Warrick and upperclassman on that team?

this is something that I think gets overlooked with this team. Not one senior leader. No disrespect to tomas but seriously not one senior or junior leader to take charge. It's hard to be lead by ur own peers. U need someone who has been battled tested numerous times. But maybe I'm talking out my neck. Can anyone remember a team that has faired well with a bunch of frosh and sophmores?

Natural maturation.
It's realistically why the next two years could be the start of St. John's building a very solid base that can help right the ship. When they decided to give Norm this season, it significantly helped his chances of staying for the long haul. Yanker makes a good point about roster balance as well.

I'm glad u understood me yank. All those teams had freshmen but they also had more than two seniors on the team

It's definitely a factor.  All else being equal, I would definitely rather a team made up of Juniors and Seniors than Freshman and Sophomores.

I don't agree that you can't be lead by your peers though...leaders are leaders.

And for the record being young is just a reality this team faces and not an excuse for Norm.

whoa whoa never ever will I make a excuse for norm I said this last year u get paid millions then u have to produce.I'm just bringing something to everyones attention.

Quote from: kob24 on December 12, 2008, 01:52:31 PM

this is something that I think gets overlooked with this team. Not one senior leader. No disrespect to tomas but seriously not one senior or junior leader to take charge. It's hard to be lead by ur own peers. U need someone who has been battled tested numerous times. But maybe I'm talking out my neck. Can anyone remember a team that has faired well with a bunch of frosh and sophmores?

Natural maturation.
It's realistically why the next two years could be the start of St. John's building a very solid base that can help right the ship. When they decided to give Norm this season, it significantly helped his chances of staying for the long haul. Yanker makes a good point about roster balance as well.

the solid base will be gone in two years...eight or nine players leaving.  that leaves us back to zero...and the myth of the long haul will disappear.

i understand a team needs senior leadership...but mediocre senior leadership leads to a mediocre season.   it's better to have a lottery pick freshman or sophomore leading the pack.  the game has changed.

whoa whoa never ever will I make a excuse for norm I said this last year u get paid millions then u have to produce.I'm just bringing something to everyones attention.

I didn't mean to imply you were making excuses for Norm...but certain posters always seem to think that when someone says things like "we are young" that they are making excuses for Norm.  I was just trying to preemptively strike before they did.

I am fairly certain this was Slappy's plan! Keep having kids transfer out so that he can use his "we are young" excuse for as long as he can. You have to give him credit for having a plan at least.

that is gonna catch up to him fairly quick

I am fairly certain this was Slappy's plan! Keep having kids transfer out so that he can use his "we are young" excuse for as long as he can. You have to give him credit for having a plan at least.

The man is a genious!

Quote from: we are sju on December 12, 2008, 03:26:33 PM

I am fairly certain this was Slappy's plan! Keep having kids transfer out so that he can use his "we are young" excuse for as long as he can. You have to give him credit for having a plan at least.

The man is a

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on December 12, 2008, 04:10:00 PM

Quote from: we are sju on December 12, 2008, 03:26:33 PM

I am fairly certain this was Slappy's plan! Keep having kids transfer out so that he can use his "we are young" excuse for as long as he can. You have to give him credit for having a plan at least.

The man is a genious!

More of an Evil genius
Dr Evil Roberts is sort of catchy

I think it was the domino effect. The first couple of years, Norm had a tough time convincing kids to come play at St Johns. The kids that did come, Geno,Mase are borderline Big East players. If you were choosing schools, would you want to come play for a team with Geno as the PG? But now I think things have changed, next year Burrell,Evans,Boothe will be the upperclassmen and maybe,just maybe talented kids will want to play with them. Omari,Hardy and hopefully Stephenson might prove me right

You guys don't think Norm would rather win than to perpetuate turnover in order to have an "excuse" for losing?

norm would win if he could.

he doesn't know how...and he won't ask for help.

norm would win if he could.

he doesn't know how...and he won't ask for help.

This the most accurate post that I have ever read since seeing the three st.johns websites.