What has Norm done well?

Quote from: pmg911 on December 30, 2008, 01:23:18 PM

Quote from: Dave on December 30, 2008, 11:00:56 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on December 30, 2008, 08:19:16 AM

Quote from: Jacstorm on December 29, 2008, 05:27:09 PM

To add to what Choz said:

Took over a program whose talent level and recruiting relationships were an utter joke. Improved the talent every year.. which includes something we haven’t seen in a long time – individual kids (not all and not all at the same pace) are improving. The recruiting relationships are being rebuilt and improving every year. The school’s reputation, which was in the toilet, is unbelievably better.

Tailored his coaching to his talent. When it was nonexistent he played one way. Now, with some talent, we’re running. Often good plays and play out of time-outs and half-time.

Doing a very difficult job the right way. And before we hear Baylor! Ohio State! I’ve said for a long time that even Baylor was nowhere near in as bad shape as we were.

And by the way, News.. the assistant did his time. In your mind he still shouldn’t be hired?? And Malik, Justin, Omari are tokens??

First and most important..  if you think that the coaches in the city thinking Norm is a good guy means the "recruiting relationships" are repaired you are sorely mistaken. Multiple coaches in the CHSAA would never ever send a top player to Norm.

Baylor had a player on their team MURDER another player and the coach trying to blatantly cover up paying players. Do you really think the situation St. John's was worse than that.?

Malik has shown himself to NOT be a Big East player, Justin Burrell, while from the Bronx, is not a city player. He attended school on Long Island and in CT. Omari is a legit recruit but until he actually steps on the courtt for St. John's, he doesn't count.

Lastly, as a selfish fan, I hope Coach Young can get some players here. The reality of the situation is that Norm showed himself desperate to get some connection to recruit city players because he had failed miseribly since the day he started. He didn't hire some guy who was convicted of disorderly condcut or possesion of a little marajiuna. He hired a convicted DRUG DEALER who got caught with 96lbs of pot. Paid his time or not, this guy could not get a job teaching in any school system in America and his record would immediately disqualify him from mulitple professions.

Can you explain how you know about all the opinions of all the CHSAA coaches?

How has Malik shown he isn't a Big East player?

We praise other schools for their hirings of assistant coaches and administrative  assistants for their connections with certain recruits but when our coach does it we call him desperate. This is clearly what they call a double standard.

I used to coach (Freshman & Varsity Assistant) in the league and still talk to a lot of the coaches on a regular basis because I have maintained those friendships through the years and I have known a lot of them through my family and various basketball connections. An example.. 

Please tell me another Big East or another major conference school that has hired a convicted drug dealer as an assistant coach.

Norm Roberts, and I know this for fact, had ample opportunity in the last three years to bring in guys that could help get him players. He said NO NO NO because of his blind loyalty to Glenn Braccia & Chris Casey. This past Spring he turned down another chance to bring in a TOP recruiter and it was only then that he made the move to go get Oz Cross & Coach Kimami Young. He was desperate.

Why do you continue to exclude Quartelbaum? Wasnt he supposed to be a great recruiting assistant?

i don't post to indirectly communicate to other people.  i post to read breaking news and talk about my favorite team.  MB's aren't that serious though.

i mean come on.  if norm was a good coach, nearly everything on a message board posted (unless it's a false rumor. not something like "i woudn't send my kid there") wouldn't matter at all. 

and that doesn't have to come from the other message boards.  it probably came from other coaches, and NEWS STORIES REPORTING HE'S ON THE HOT SEAT.  are you going to now say "where did CBS come up with norm being on the hot seat?" 

a good coach = good success in college bball.  it's as simple as that.  we have a horrible coach, and that's why we are horrible.

Quote from: Marco Baldi

Why do you continue to exclude Quartelbaum? Wasnt he supposed to be a great recruiting assistant?
[/quote

Because Coach Q has worked at various programs and proven that when working with the right head coach can help get players.

What haas Glenn Braccia or Chris Casey every accomplished in the world of college basketbal to have earned the high level assistants job.

PMG, I agree with you on Case and Braicca. My brother played for Braicca and laughed when he heard he was at SJU. But you cant leave Q completely out of this problem. He is on the staff and should take some responsibility as well. Wasnt Norm considered a good recruiter also while at Kansas?

Quote from: Randomhero423 on December 30, 2008, 01:09:07 PM

i don't post to indirectly communicate to other people.  i post to read breaking news and talk about my favorite team.  MB's aren't that serious though.

i mean come on.  if norm was a good coach, nearly everything on a message board posted (unless it's a false rumor. not something like "i woudn't send my kid there") wouldn't matter at all. 

and that doesn't have to come from the other message boards.  it probably came from other coaches, and NEWS STORIES REPORTING HE'S ON THE HOT SEAT.  are you going to now say "where did CBS come up with norm being on the hot seat?" 

a good coach = good success in college bball.  it's as simple as that.  we have a horrible coach, and that's why we are horrible.

Read what I wrote.  I didn't say they were "that serious".  But they are a source for information.  Such as the breaking news you mentioned in your response.

Besides Rivals (and perhaps Gary Parrish?  I don't remember), what news reports got around to talking about Norm being on the hot seat last year, in October?  I thought the newspapers were pretty cautious about his status (perhaps too cautious), possibly because they don't want to tick off someone they may need to interview.  Message boards are a source for information on what the fans think, how the fans are frustrated.  They are not a decider, they are a voice. 

I never disagreed that a good coach and a good salesman trumps anything said by disgruntled fans.  Don't create a strawman to argue with, Randomhero.

And WASJU - I'm talking more about earlier last year, when Norm had his freshmen.  I wouldn't think that was good job either, but some schools really go with such mediocrity (see: Auburn.  see: Penn State) for longer than they should.  I'm simply saying that message boards are another voice of the fan out there, like talk radio is a voice of the fan. 

We're arguing a small point and can go in circles about this all day.  We know this team has serious problems.  We don't disagree on that.  Personally, I think we can beat the dead "Norm sucks" horse but it's boring.  I'm watching the players for signs of progress and I can't imagine that unless the team magically turns into a tough BE competitor, that we won't have another coach next year.  I'm a bit surprised we don't have one THIS year.  But so it goes.

Just a little example of how word travels through messageboards...

Jim Baumbach had a column in today's Newsday about coaches on the hot seat

He writes about Norm....

"How much longer can St. John's wait to build a competitive team? This is year five for him, and the few fans that remain are frustrated."

The word "frustrated" combined with 10 threads about how Norm sucks would say a lot to a player looking at St. John's and reading this. People believe what they see its like the old joke "It's on TV it must be true!"

Just a little example of how word travels through messageboards...

Jim Baumbach had a column in today's Newsday about coaches on the hot seat

He writes about Norm....

"How much longer can St. John's wait to build a competitive team? This is year five for him, and the few fans that remain are frustrated."

The word "frustrated" combined with 10 threads about how Norm sucks would say a lot to a player looking at St. John's and reading this. People believe what they see its like the old joke "It's on TV it must be true!"

it is absurd to think a high school player confident in his skills would look to a message board to determine what school he wants to go to.

It is propaganda intended at keeping positive comments about our current coach and people should not buy into it.

Quote from: Tha Kid on December 31, 2008, 10:52:32 AM

it is absurd to think a high school player confident in his skills would look to a message board to determine what school he wants to go to.

It is propaganda intended at keeping positive comments about our current coach and people should not buy into it.

That statement is absurd.  No one said a player uses comments to determine what school he should go to.  But those comments ARE a source of information from some knowledgeable fans.  They are a source of tone of the program.  You disagree, that's fine.  But do you deny that message boards nationwide are places for information and rumors; that administrators and other interested parties look at message boards and blogs for more information than they would get from the mainstream media or official releases?

Propaganda?  What propaganda?  There are negative comments all over the message boards.  There are hardly any positive comments about our coach.  And if the "propaganda" was aimed at keeping only positive comments about the coaching up, then wouldn't the moderators erase messages like yours?  There are easier ways to "propagandize," and no one has much interest in doing that, Kid.

Quote from: Tha Kid on December 31, 2008, 10:52:32 AM

it is absurd to think a high school player confident in his skills would look to a message board to determine what school he wants to go to.

It is propaganda intended at keeping positive comments about our current coach and people should not buy into it.

That statement is absurd.  No one said a player uses comments to determine what school he should go to.  But those comments ARE a source of information from some knowledgeable fans.  They are a source of tone of the program.  You disagree, that's fine.  But do you deny that message boards nationwide are places for information and rumors; that administrators and other interested parties look at message boards and blogs for more information than they would get from the mainstream media or official releases?

Propaganda?  What propaganda?  There are negative comments all over the message boards.  There are hardly any positive comments about our coach.  And if the "propaganda" was aimed at keeping only positive comments about the coaching up, then wouldn't the moderators erase messages like yours?  There are easier ways to "propagandize," and no one has much interest in doing that, Kid.

Quote from: peter on December 31, 2008, 11:04:06 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on December 31, 2008, 10:52:32 AM

it is absurd to think a high school player confident in his skills would look to a message board to determine what school he wants to go to.

It is propaganda intended at keeping positive comments about our current coach and people should not buy into it.

That statement is absurd.  No one said a player uses comments to determine what school he should go to.  But those comments ARE a source of information from some knowledgeable fans.  They are a source of tone of the program.  You disagree, that's fine.  But do you deny that message boards nationwide are places for information and rumors; that administrators and other interested parties look at message boards and blogs for more information than they would get from the mainstream media or official releases?

Propaganda?  What propaganda?  There are negative comments all over the message boards.  There are hardly any positive comments about our coach.  And if the "propaganda" was aimed at keeping only positive comments about the coaching up, then wouldn't the moderators erase messages like yours?  There are easier ways to "propagandize," and no one has much interest in doing that, Kid.

No you are right - I never accused this board of being the GEstapo like Redmen used to be or anything like that.  But why suggest that our negative comments affect recruits unless you think people should be more positive despite their sentiments?

If there is a thread with your name on it, youre going to want to read it-whether its good or bad. For example, there was a thread on Doron Lamb and there wasnt 1 post saying this kid would be a great get or we would love to have this kid play for SJU. Instead, we get these so called fans saying Lamb would be nuts to play for an awful coach blah blah blah.If Im Lamb and Im reading that, no way I come to St Johns, the fans are miserable and babies.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 31, 2008, 01:54:11 PM

If there is a thread with your name on it, youre going to want to read it-whether its good or bad. For example, there was a thread on Doron Lamb and there wasnt 1 post saying this kid would be a great get or we would love to have this kid play for SJU. Instead, we get these so called fans saying Lamb would be nuts to play for an awful coach blah blah blah.If Im Lamb and Im reading that, no way I come to St Johns, the fans are miserable and babies.

Spoken like a true Iona fan

Quote from: mjmaherjr on December 31, 2008, 04:10:46 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 31, 2008, 01:54:11 PM

If there is a thread with your name on it, youre going to want to read it-whether its good or bad. For example, there was a thread on Doron Lamb and there wasnt 1 post saying this kid would be a great get or we would love to have this kid play for SJU. Instead, we get these so called fans saying Lamb would be nuts to play for an awful coach blah blah blah.If Im Lamb and Im reading that, no way I come to St Johns, the fans are miserable and babies.

Spoken like a true Iona fan

Thanks for sharing. Why dont you go write another useless letter to Monasch. That worked out well