Norms Most Disgraceful Recruiting Job To Date

Quote from: TRabinowitz on November 20, 2009, 01:18:43 PM

What about taking Rob Thomas, who was illiterate until his junior year of high school?  That's an academic risk.

Rob Thomas has dyslexia and learning disabilities. You might as well call a blind kid illiterate.

I have a learning disability as well, doesn't mean I'm illiterate.  One really has very little to do with the other.  Even dyslexia. 

I'm not faulting Norm for taking Rob, what I'm saying is that you can't make the claim that Norm doesn't take risks himself.

Rob plays a smart brand of ball.
I don't need a test score to see that he's bright.

Rob plays a smart brand of ball.
I don't need a test score to see that he's bright.

I'm not arguing that he's not bright.  I am arguing that he was an academic risk to take.  Recruiting Lance Stephenson was a behavioral/amateurism risk.

As was Rico Pickett for Rohrssen.

Quote from: Foad on November 20, 2009, 01:36:30 PM

Quote from: TRabinowitz on November 20, 2009, 01:18:43 PM

What about taking Rob Thomas, who was illiterate until his junior year of high school?  That's an academic risk.

Rob Thomas has dyslexia and learning disabilities. You might as well call a blind kid illiterate.

I have a learning disability as well, doesn't mean I'm illiterate.  One really has very little to do with the other.  Even dyslexia. 

I'm not faulting Norm for taking Rob, what I'm saying is that you can't make the claim that Norm doesn't take risks himself.

I assume you didn't grow up homeless and have to overcome the other obstacles RT did.

You should read the university's mission statement: "We strive to provide excellent education for all people, especially those lacking economic, physical, or social advantages." Admitting RT was absolutely in line with that, in a way that admitting Born Ready might not have been.

You can bash Norm all you want, but not for Thomas.

I'm not bashing Norm for taking Rob Thomas, but I'm also not bashing Rohrssen for taking Pickett.  Whose to say that Pickett didn't grow up with hardships in his life?  I also don't blame Norm for going after Lance.

But those that bash Rohrssen for going after Pickett but DON'T bash Norm for going after Lance or Rob Thomas are a bit hypocritical.

I'm not bashing Norm for taking Rob Thomas, but I'm also not bashing Rohrssen for taking Pickett.  Whose to say that Pickett didn't grow up with hardships in his life?  I also don't blame Norm for going after Lance.

But those that bash Rohrssen for going after Pickett but DON'T bash Norm for going after Lance or Rob Thomas are a bit hypocritical.

Norm was bashed here for not getting after Pickett.

Theo,

Please don't compare Rob to lance or rico. That's unfair and ridiculous.

Marco,

Are you dense? What is so hard to understand about theo's post?

It makes sense to think norm should have went after BOTH lance and pickett.

It makes sense to think Norm should have gone after NEITHER lance nor pickett.

But if you praise norm for not going after pickett, how can you have supported him trying to get lance?  Makes no sense.

In plainer terms, you can't bash rohrssen for trying to sign a character risk when you didn't bash norm for going after a character risk.

In plainer terms, you can't bash rohrssen for trying to sign a character risk when you didn't bash norm for going after a character risk.

I thought Character played for the Home Wrecker Pitino last season?
You know, the guy who made Porcini's famous for "Best Table Service" in Louisville!

I'm not bashing Norm for taking Rob Thomas, but I'm also not bashing Rohrssen for taking Pickett.  Whose to say that Pickett didn't grow up with hardships in his life?  I also don't blame Norm for going after Lance.

But those that bash Rohrssen for going after Pickett but DON'T bash Norm for going after Lance or Rob Thomas

This is completely disingenuous. There is not one single negative comment in this thread about Rohrssen's recruitment of Pickett. Baldi defended Norm from your "epic recruiting fail" by pointing to Pickett's alleged character issues - citing them as a reason that Norm might not have gone after him. He didn't say Manhattan -- which recruits amputees for god sake -- shouldn't have recruited him. Which defense of Norm you took as license to bash poor disabled homeless Rob Thomas, which bashing continues in this post, as you continue to refer to him as a questionable recruit, despite your bleating to the contrary.

are a bit hypocritical.

No. If such bashing had occurred, which it didn't, it would have been  inconsistent, not hypocritical. A hypocrite is one who professes to have virtues he lacks, or whose personal behavior differs from his his public demeanor. If Norm had bashed Manhattan for recruiting Pickett while he was recruiting Stephenson, that would have been hypocritical. Unless you think Baldi is Norm? Seems unlikely to me. Al Lobalbo maybe, but not Norm.

 

Quote from: TRabinowitz on November 20, 2009, 04:57:26 PM

I'm not bashing Norm for taking Rob Thomas, but I'm also not bashing Rohrssen for taking Pickett.  Whose to say that Pickett didn't grow up with hardships in his life?  I also don't blame Norm for going after Lance.

But those that bash Rohrssen for going after Pickett but DON'T bash Norm for going after Lance or Rob Thomas

This is completely disingenuous. There is not one single negative comment in this thread about Rohrssen's recruitment of Pickett. Baldi defended Norm from your "epic recruiting fail" by pointing to Pickett's alleged character issues - citing them as a reason that Norm might not have gone after him. He didn't say Manhattan -- which recruits amputees for god sake -- shouldn't have recruited him.

But he pointed to character issues as to why ST. JOHN'S shouldn't have recruited him.  However, he didn't use that same argument when it came to recruiting Lance.  Or Devin Ebanks, who got kicked out of Loughlin.  Norm also recruited Ashton Pankey, who got kicked out of Molloy. So I don't think that character issues had much to do with the reason, and even if it did, then Norm would be "inconsistent."

The fact of the matter is that this was a high-major player with GOOD high-major offers who was wooed by NYC at the hands of Barry Rohrssen.  Norm has gone after characters with history of behavioral and academic issues in the past and continues going after them. 

But he pointed to character issues as to why ST. JOHN'S shouldn't have recruited him.  However, he didn't use that same argument when it came to recruiting Lance.  Or Devin Ebanks, who got kicked out of Loughlin.  Norm also recruited Ashton Pankey, who got kicked out of Molloy. So I don't think that character issues had much to do with the reason, and even if it did, then Norm would be "inconsistent."

The fact of the matter is that this was a high-major player with GOOD high-major offers who was wooed by NYC at the hands of Barry Rohrssen.  Norm has gone after characters with history of behavioral and academic issues in the past and continues going after them.

To me...there is a big difference between character issues and academic issues.

Also with regards to character issues...there are varying degrees....like being in a car during a drive by versus a teenager getting in a fistfight over a girl.

To paraphrase Baldi's point (if I may) maybe Norm made the right call on this one.  And maybe Norm didn't think Lance was as much of a character risk as Pickett.

Also you have no idea what you're talking about with regards to dyslexia.  You keep proving that more and more with each post.

Lance touched a girl's butt.  Who among us...uh, never mind.

But he pointed to character issues as to why ST. JOHN'S shouldn't have recruited him. 

No. He pointed to character issues as to why SJ might not have recruited him: "I dont think Norm,staff or the school want to make a mistake." He made no value judgment of his own (should), he conjectured about the motives of others (might). And then he gloated when it looked like Norm and staff were right: at least one journalist has now called for Rohrssen's firing in the wake of Pickett's suspension.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/294626-rico-pickett-suspendedanotherreason-manhattan-shouldfire-barry-rohrssen

He's actually a journalist slash high school student. I trust that doesn't disqualify his opinion.

However, he didn't use that same argument when it came to recruiting Lance.  Or Devin Ebanks, who got kicked out of Loughlin.  Norm also recruited Ashton Pankey, who got kicked out of Molloy.

Sloppy. Pickett was not recruited. The others were recruited. So he wouldn't use the same argument, because the situations are different. And in fact the situations are very different, because Norm has to be involved with every high profile recruit in the city, because part of what he was hired to do was undo the damage locally done by Jarhead. Whereas he doesn't have to be involved with every questionable kid in Miami.

AFAICT Norm's recruiting coup is being a finalist for Stephenson. If nothing else he needs the good publicity that comes from high profile failure.

So I don't think that character issues had much to do with the reason, and even if it did, then Norm would be "inconsistent."

So what do you think was the reason? They're lazy? Their subscription to Rivals expired and they never heard of the kid? They think they're set at PG? What?

The fact of the matter is that this was a high-major player with GOOD high-major offers who was wooed by NYC at the hands of Barry Rohrssen.   

Those are not exactly the facts of the matter, at least not as reported in the article you linked. It didn't say the kid had offers, it said he had a "wish list." I have a wish list too, that doesn't mean Barbara Stanwyck will be offering. I'm sorry, did I say Barbara Stanwyck? I mean Scarlett Johanasson.
 

Norm has gone after characters with history of behavioral and academic issues in the past and continues going after them. 

And another gratuitous slap at poor Rob Thomas. Thomas had every reason to have grown into the sort of hoodlum ubiquitous in college basketball. Instead he's nothing but a good citizen. And you trash him. It's really uncalled for.

I have NOT trashed Rob Thomas in this thread.  I have said numerous times that I commend Norm Roberts for offering him.  I was just being honest as to say that it was an academic RISK (on the part of the university) to take him.  You have to take risks in order to succeed in the world of big-time college basketball, and that is what Norm did (insert Norm failure jokes here).

If Rob Thomas graduates and continues to be successful in life, it is one of the few things during the Norm Roberts era that this administration can take pride in.   

Oh, and by the way, the tone of that article you posted is that Rohrssen should be fired because he's losing, NOT because of Pickett's troubles.  If Rohrssen were winning in the way that Gonzo was at Manhattan, do you really think that article would have been written?

P.S. It's a good article and I agree with much of it.

I have NOT trashed Rob Thomas in this thread.

You're lying. You repeatedly disparaged Thomas by calling him "illiterate," a word meaning "ignorant" and "uneducated."  If you're going to do, to least have the balls to own it.

Oh, and by the way, the tone of that article you posted is that Rohrssen should be fired because he's losing, NOT because of Pickett's troubles.  If Rohrssen were winning in the way that Gonzo was at Manhattan, do you really think that article would have been written?

Oh by the way, you're lying again. The article is called "Rico Pickett Suspended: Another Reason Manhattan Should Fire Barry Rohrssen." It has 15 paragraphs, 9 of which are about Pickett's suspension, including how Rohrssen's desperation led him to sign Pickett and how that has now all blown up in his face.

The article has a list of reasons why Rohrssen should be fired. There are four, including the suspension:  "the suspension joins . . . poor recruiting, limited player development, and ineffective coaching" as "reasons for Manhattan to fire its coach." Losing is not mentioned; the words lost, losing, loser do not appear. The worst thing said about his record is that he "has not carried Manhattan back to the top of the MAAC."

I'm not interested in discussing a hypothetical about Booby Gonzalez. It's irrelevant. You were the one who called EPIC FAIL on staff for not signing an obviously troubled kid. It turns out staff (and Baldi) were right and you were wrong. Own it. If you're not willing to do that, at least be smart enough to shut up about it.

You never answered my question: would this article have been written if Manhattan was winning under Barry Rohrssen? 

I am a writer, and I have made many connections within the NYC basketball community, and while I may not be a "Maven"    I am somewhat in touch with things going on in this community.  The real reason this article was written is because he isn't winning.   

And I still call an epic fail on this staff, because THEY need to start being "desperate" as well and land some good recruits.

You never answered my question: would this article have been written if Manhattan was winning under Barry Rohrssen? 

I didn't answer the question because it's irrelevant. The issue is whether Norm should have recruited the kid, not BR. BR's situation is only germane in that he's in hot water for taking the same action you urged on Norm - also a losing coach, in case you haven't noticed. And anyway, plenty of articles are written calling for the dismissal of winning coaches. People in Syracuse call for Boeheim's head every year. Sampson winning didn't stop him from getting fired. Etc, etc.

I am a writer, and I have made many connections within the NYC basketball community, and while I may not be a "Maven"    I am somewhat in touch with things going on in this community.  The real reason this article was written is because he isn't winning.   

And I still call an epic fail on this staff, because THEY need to start being "desperate" as well and land some good recruits.

Norm has his job for one reason: he runs a clean program, which is all his superiors seemingly care about. It'd be stupid of him to throw away even that for some dicey kid whose career lasted three games before dragging his coach's name through the mud.