WORST OFFENSE EVER?

Now we might win a couple more games than we are used to under Norm. 17 maybe? We def are more competitive! I don't see any Maryland a$$ rams coming this year. We even have more talent than in the past. HOWEVER we have the worst offense possibly in BE history!
The first year of a shot clock in college was the 85/86 season. In that season there was still no three point line however. In that season under Louie who was never going to be confused with Jerry Tarkenian, Rick Pitino or Paul Westhead we averaged 77 ppg in the BE. Again no three point line, and a 45 second shot clock with a half court defensive minded coach.
Through 6 BE games we are averaging 61 ppg??
How is this even physically possible? W are still running the Geno offense 6 years later with supposed better personal? See the thing I have complained about the last 4 years isn't wins and losses or even recruiting. Watching my favorite basketball team is really hard and not enjoyable! I do it out of loyalty and habit. I would rather us lose every game but at least be more enjoyable! The Knicks might not make the playoffs but at least I can sit through their games.

Forget about wins and losses and Norm's always questionable job status, I bet recruits aren't coming here because no one wants to play 1951 Hickory High offense!
The real test of how bad we are is try watching the game with a college hoops fan that is not a SJU fan. See how long it takes for that person to ask you to see if there is any other game on.

The first year of a shot clock in college was the 85/86 season. In that season there was still no three point line however. In that season under Louie who was never going to be confused with Jerry Tarkenian, Rick Pitino or Paul Westhead we averaged 77 ppg in the BE. Again no three point line, and a 45 second shot clock with a half court defensive minded coach.Through 6 BE games we are averaging 61 ppg??

Not to defend Norm because Lord knows, but in 85 we had Mark Jackson and Walter Berry, not to be confused with Malik Boothe and Sean Evans. If Norm had those two he wouldn't average 60 points a game either. Or he might anyway, who knows. Clearly you're not going to win too many BE games scoring 60 points. But yesterday we took 67 shots - 16 more shots than Uconn took, w/6 less makes. 2 for 17 from 3 and 34 percent from the floor vs Uconn's 60 percent is why we lost, not because of the pace of the offense.

Quote from: we are sju on January 21, 2010, 09:03:42 AM

The first year of a shot clock in college was the 85/86 season. In that season there was still no three point line however. In that season under Louie who was never going to be confused with Jerry Tarkenian, Rick Pitino or Paul Westhead we averaged 77 ppg in the BE. Again no three point line, and a 45 second shot clock with a half court defensive minded coach.Through 6 BE games we are averaging 61 ppg??

Not to defend Norm because Lord knows, but in 85 we had Mark Jackson and Walter Berry, not to be confused with Malik Boothe and Sean Evans. If Norm had those two he wouldn't average 60 points a game either. Or he might anyway, who knows. Clearly you're not going to win too many BE games scoring 60 points. But yesterday we took 67 shots - 16 more shots than Uconn took, w/6 less makes. 2 for 17 from 3 and 34 percent from the floor vs Uconn's 60 percent is why we lost, not because of the pace of the offense.

Not too mention Rowan, Glass and Jones. We clearly had better talent, but you of all people would admit Louie wasn't exactly an offensive genius. In fact wasn't that the knock on him that he would have kept even more talent home if he played a faster style?
I don't even want this thread to become a Norm bash. Really all I am saying is if Norm is going to be here forever he has to do something about this offense. It is brutal!

Now we might win a couple more games than we are used to under Norm. 17 maybe? We def are more competitive! I don't see any Maryland a$$ rams coming this year.

Stick around on Saturday....  That could very, well end up being similiar to the Maryland's a$$ ram....  They better hope 'Nova use Vaseline unlike Maryland.

The offense is atrocious, and unfortunately the defense isn't so amazing to make up for it.  While we try hard, I wouldn't consider us a grind it out Pitt team who makes the other team work for everything and feel like they were beat up after.

Plain and simple - Norm doesn't have a f'ing clue.

Not too mention Rowan, Glass and Jones. We clearly had better talent, but you of all people would admit Louie wasn't exactly an offensive genius. In fact wasn't that the knock on him that he would have kept even more talent home if he played a faster style?
I don't even want this thread to become a Norm bash. Really all I am saying is if Norm is going to be here forever he has to do something about this offense. It is brutal!

No question it's brutal. But is the problem with the offense the tempo or is it that the offense doesn't get the ball to guys who can score in a position where they can score? Look at it this way. To beat Uconn yesterday we would have needed to score 76 points. 76 points is 38 baskets. To score 38 baskets when you shoot 33 percent means you have to take what, 108 shots? 40 minutes in a game, 60 seconds in a minute, divided by 108, that's a shot every 22 seconds. That's crazy up tempo. But if the offense were more efficient - say if we eliminated Malik Boothe running the top of the key weave and Sean Evans running the faux pick and roll and instead ran a play that had some vague chance of success, you don't have to merely play faster and hope for the best.

Quote from: we are sju on January 21, 2010, 09:32:49 AM

Not too mention Rowan, Glass and Jones. We clearly had better talent, but you of all people would admit Louie wasn't exactly an offensive genius. In fact wasn't that the knock on him that he would have kept even more talent home if he played a faster style?
I don't even want this thread to become a Norm bash. Really all I am saying is if Norm is going to be here forever he has to do something about this offense. It is brutal!

No question it's brutal. But is the problem with the offense the tempo or is it that the offense doesn't get the ball to guys who can score in a position where they can score? Look at it this way. To beat Uconn yesterday we would have needed to score 76 points. 76 points is 38 baskets. To score 38 baskets when you shoot 33 percent means you have to take what, 108 shots? 40 minutes in a game, 60 seconds in a minute, divided by 108, that's a shot every 22 seconds. That's crazy up tempo. But if the offense were more efficient - say if we eliminated Malik Boothe running the top of the key weave and Sean Evans running the faux pick and roll and instead ran a play that had some vague chance of success, you don't have to merely play faster and hope for the best.

Just for a purely aesthetic value we have to play a little faster. But I am not even talking about fast breaks. We start our offense waaaaaaay to late in the shot clock. Not only does this make for truly awful to watch offense, but it also works against us later in the game.
First of all under 10 on the shot clock and the defense is always going to be tougher than earlier. This than makes a bad scoring team have to work that much harder to get a good look.
Secondly our opponenets pretty much get to rest on D for all but the final 10 seconds on the shot clock. That is why even playing 11 guys for no reason does not have the wear down the other team effect that Norm is evidently going for.
BTW, excellent point about utilizing the skill players we have. Either Hardy, Horne, Brownlee and Burrell are just not that good or Norm has to figure out a way to get some more points from them! Hardy needs to play more and maybe have a screen run for him from time to time.

Having chatted with several local high school and college coaches over Norm's tenure, the one common response is that far and away SJU is the easiest team to defend and prepare for. Makes sense to me.

Having chatted with several local high school and college coaches over Norm's tenure, the one common response is that far and away SJU is the easiest team to defend and prepare for. Makes sense to me.

That was said when Lou was the coach, too.

Quote from: paultzman on January 21, 2010, 10:38:41 AM

Having chatted with several local high school and college coaches over Norm's tenure, the one common response is that far and away SJU is the easiest team to defend and prepare for. Makes sense to me.

That was said when Lou was the coach, too.

Maybe that's why Lou liked Norm.

Quote from: gonzalo on January 21, 2010, 12:15:41 PM

Quote from: paultzman on January 21, 2010, 10:38:41 AM

Having chatted with several local high school and college coaches over Norm's tenure, the one common response is that far and away SJU is the easiest team to defend and prepare for. Makes sense to me.

That was said when Lou was the coach, too.

Maybe that's why Lou liked Norm.

Lou also recruited much better players as DR FOAD noted. Even if you are running a rudimentary offense, it looks better with Mark Jackson & Boo Harvey then with Geno and Gary Coleman.
BTW in fairness to Lou, there was a lot of ball and player movement and not that side to side $hit we run now.

Quote from: paultzman on January 21, 2010, 10:38:41 AM

Having chatted with several local high school and college coaches over Norm's tenure, the one common response is that far and away SJU is the easiest team to defend and prepare for. Makes sense to me.

That was said when Lou was the coach, too.

Well back when Lou was coach their "easy" preparation still usually led to a loss.

Not so with Norm.

Don't compare the two.

I remember a quote from Sleep Floyd, that GTown always knew what SJU was going to do on offense, but couldn't stop them because they executed it so well.

Think anyone has said that in the last 6 yrs?

Good point.

Off topic, but I'll say that it's funny to read Norm upset about his team's defensive effort... he's had most of these guys for 3 years.  Some of the mistakes have been corrected, but not enough to make this team a winner.  It's ok to score 60 ppg if the other team scores 58.  (like Georgetown - slow pace, low scores).  That's not what we've got.  I hope that, if a change is made, the thought process won't be the simplistic "we need to score more points." 

We need to score more points than the other guy.