Is a lateral change...

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 09:10:38 AM

Lateral change?  I didn't realize we were looking at guys with no D1 head coaching experience who failed miserably in their only experince coaching college as a head coach?

Anyone will be an upgrade.  Anyone with even the slightest measure of success as a head coach will have this team in the ncaa next year and be a step up from norm.

Jim baron is the only name I have heard repeatedly that I think would be a pointless change.

I want greenberg, or mccaffrey, or capel.

But don't be fooled - hewitt, amaker, pecora, willard, mckillop are all HUUUUGE steps up from norm.  There is no doubt in my mind.

Anyone who thinks norm could do the same as pecora at hofstra or the same as willard at iona hasn't got a freakin clue.

No thanks on Hewitt,Pecora and Mckillop. Mckillop is great but might be a lil too old,Pecora has done nothing in a mid major conference with probably the best player in the conference. Hewitt is a great recruiter with a couple of All Americans and pros on the team and is middle of the pack in a weaker ACC, hows that going to get better in the Big East?

Hewitt's made 5 NCAAs.  Baldi you are  F.O.S.  you sit here and act like you've never said Norm is good, you've never said Norm will not be fire,d bla bla bla.

RIGHT Now - Who is a BETTER coach Norm Roberts or Paul Hewitt?

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 09:59:47 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 09:10:38 AM

Lateral change?  I didn't realize we were looking at guys with no D1 head coaching experience who failed miserably in their only experince coaching college as a head coach?

Anyone will be an upgrade.  Anyone with even the slightest measure of success as a head coach will have this team in the ncaa next year and be a step up from norm.

Jim baron is the only name I have heard repeatedly that I think would be a pointless change.

I want greenberg, or mccaffrey, or capel.

But don't be fooled - hewitt, amaker, pecora, willard, mckillop are all HUUUUGE steps up from norm.  There is no doubt in my mind.

Anyone who thinks norm could do the same as pecora at hofstra or the same as willard at iona hasn't got a freakin clue.

No thanks on Hewitt,Pecora and Mckillop. Mckillop is great but might be a lil too old,Pecora has done nothing in a mid major conference with probably the best player in the conference. Hewitt is a great recruiter with a couple of All Americans and pros on the team and is middle of the pack in a weaker ACC, hows that going to get better in the Big East?

Hewitt's made 5 NCAAs.  Baldi you are  F.O.S.  you sit here and act like you've never said Norm is good, you've never said Norm will not be fire,d bla bla bla.

RIGHT Now - Who is a BETTER coach Norm Roberts or Paul Hewitt?

Hewitt.

How does Hewitt do in a league with Boeheim,Calhoun,Pitino,Jay Wright,Huggins etc.

You guys are settling

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:12:22 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 09:59:47 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 09:10:38 AM

Lateral change?  I didn't realize we were looking at guys with no D1 head coaching experience who failed miserably in their only experince coaching college as a head coach?

Anyone will be an upgrade.  Anyone with even the slightest measure of success as a head coach will have this team in the ncaa next year and be a step up from norm.

Jim baron is the only name I have heard repeatedly that I think would be a pointless change.

I want greenberg, or mccaffrey, or capel.

But don't be fooled - hewitt, amaker, pecora, willard, mckillop are all HUUUUGE steps up from norm.  There is no doubt in my mind.

Anyone who thinks norm could do the same as pecora at hofstra or the same as willard at iona hasn't got a freakin clue.

No thanks on Hewitt,Pecora and Mckillop. Mckillop is great but might be a lil too old,Pecora has done nothing in a mid major conference with probably the best player in the conference. Hewitt is a great recruiter with a couple of All Americans and pros on the team and is middle of the pack in a weaker ACC, hows that going to get better in the Big East?

Hewitt's made 5 NCAAs.  Baldi you are  F.O.S.  you sit here and act like you've never said Norm is good, you've never said Norm will not be fire,d bla bla bla.

RIGHT Now - Who is a BETTER coach Norm Roberts or Paul Hewitt?

Hewitt.

How does Hewitt do in a league with Boeheim,Calhoun,Pitino,Jay Wright,Huggins etc.

You guys are settling

I'm sorry, does Hewitt coach in the MAAC still or does he coach in a league with Coach K, Roy Williams, Gary Williams, previously Herb Sendek, Al Skinner, etc.

Read my freakin post again Baldi.  I don't want Hewitt, but he's a huge step up from Norm.  You just agreed.  Stop trolling.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 10:15:06 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:12:22 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 09:59:47 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 09:10:38 AM

Lateral change?  I didn't realize we were looking at guys with no D1 head coaching experience who failed miserably in their only experince coaching college as a head coach?

Anyone will be an upgrade.  Anyone with even the slightest measure of success as a head coach will have this team in the ncaa next year and be a step up from norm.

Jim baron is the only name I have heard repeatedly that I think would be a pointless change.

I want greenberg, or mccaffrey, or capel.

But don't be fooled - hewitt, amaker, pecora, willard, mckillop are all HUUUUGE steps up from norm.  There is no doubt in my mind.

Anyone who thinks norm could do the same as pecora at hofstra or the same as willard at iona hasn't got a freakin clue.

No thanks on Hewitt,Pecora and Mckillop. Mckillop is great but might be a lil too old,Pecora has done nothing in a mid major conference with probably the best player in the conference. Hewitt is a great recruiter with a couple of All Americans and pros on the team and is middle of the pack in a weaker ACC, hows that going to get better in the Big East?

Hewitt's made 5 NCAAs.  Baldi you are  F.O.S.  you sit here and act like you've never said Norm is good, you've never said Norm will not be fire,d bla bla bla.

RIGHT Now - Who is a BETTER coach Norm Roberts or Paul Hewitt?

Hewitt.

How does Hewitt do in a league with Boeheim,Calhoun,Pitino,Jay Wright,Huggins etc.

You guys are settling

I'm sorry, does Hewitt coach in the MAAC still or does he coach in a league with Coach K, Roy Williams, Gary Williams, previously Herb Sendek, Al Skinner, etc.

Read my freakin post again Baldi.  I don't want Hewitt, but he's a huge step up from Norm.  You just agreed.  Stop trolling.

Right, and hes mid pack

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:17:02 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 10:15:06 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 10:12:22 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on March 11, 2010, 09:59:47 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on March 11, 2010, 09:10:38 AM

Lateral change?  I didn't realize we were looking at guys with no D1 head coaching experience who failed miserably in their only experince coaching college as a head coach?

Anyone will be an upgrade.  Anyone with even the slightest measure of success as a head coach will have this team in the ncaa next year and be a step up from norm.

Jim baron is the only name I have heard repeatedly that I think would be a pointless change.

I want greenberg, or mccaffrey, or capel.

But don't be fooled - hewitt, amaker, pecora, willard, mckillop are all HUUUUGE steps up from norm.  There is no doubt in my mind.

Anyone who thinks norm could do the same as pecora at hofstra or the same as willard at iona hasn't got a freakin clue.

No thanks on Hewitt,Pecora and Mckillop. Mckillop is great but might be a lil too old,Pecora has done nothing in a mid major conference with probably the best player in the conference. Hewitt is a great recruiter with a couple of All Americans and pros on the team and is middle of the pack in a weaker ACC, hows that going to get better in the Big East?

Hewitt's made 5 NCAAs.  Baldi you are  F.O.S.  you sit here and act like you've never said Norm is good, you've never said Norm will not be fire,d bla bla bla.

RIGHT Now - Who is a BETTER coach Norm Roberts or Paul Hewitt?

Hewitt.

How does Hewitt do in a league with Boeheim,Calhoun,Pitino,Jay Wright,Huggins etc.

You guys are settling

I'm sorry, does Hewitt coach in the MAAC still or does he coach in a league with Coach K, Roy Williams, Gary Williams, previously Herb Sendek, Al Skinner, etc.

Read my freakin post again Baldi.  I don't want Hewitt, but he's a huge step up from Norm.  You just agreed.  Stop trolling.

Right, and hes mid pack

Right - something Norm has NEVER achieved at St. John's.  Are you trolling just to get your last few Norm annoyances in before he's gone?

Dave asked if a LATERAL change is worth it.  Both you and I have agreed that Hewitt is better, but he's not great.  He's not a lateral change though, a lateral change would be to bring in Fred Hill.

Next.

Are you done girls? haha.

Seriously though back to topic. I do believe Norm has risen this program from the depths however he's incapable of bringing it to the "next" level. How many of these coaching candidates are capable of bringing the program even further?

The Big East isn't the MAC, MAAC, CAA, A-10 or any other conference in America. It's brutal to recruit here. Seriously my theory has always been you have Calhoun, Pitino, Boheim, and Norm Roberts in your living room rank those 1-4 of the chances that guy gets the recruit. Do any of the candidates mentioned change that order?

Are you done girls? haha.

Seriously though back to topic. I do believe Norm has risen this program from the depths however he's incapable of bringing it to the "next" level. How many of these coaching candidates are capable of bringing the program even further?

The Big East isn't the MAC, MAAC, CAA, A-10 or any other conference in America. It's brutal to recruit here. Seriously my theory has always been you have Calhoun, Pitino, Boheim, and Norm Roberts in your living room rank those 1-4 of the chances that guy gets the recruit. Do any of the candidates mentioned change that order?

I agree with you Dave no one on the list has the name or recognition as Pitino or Boheim.  BUT, the coaches on that list have proven they can coach and win games, something Norm has never proven.  I would much rather watch a well coached team who runs an offense that looks like an offense than Norm Roberts sad excuse for what he calls basketball.  Enough is enough the guy is a loser and has done nothing but lose here.  Thanks for keeping a clean program Norm but you can't coach. 

The coaches on that list can sell nyc, msg, restoring st johns to greatness, and playing time - all things norm tried - but the difference is the new coach can say "and we'll win...just like I did at (fill in school here)"

Are you done girls? haha.

Seriously though back to topic. I do believe Norm has risen this program from the depths however he's incapable of bringing it to the "next" level. How many of these coaching candidates are capable of bringing the program even further?

The Big East isn't the MAC, MAAC, CAA, A-10 or any other conference in America. It's brutal to recruit here. Seriously my theory has always been you have Calhoun, Pitino, Boheim, and Norm Roberts in your living room rank those 1-4 of the chances that guy gets the recruit. Do any of the candidates mentioned change that order?

So assuming you can't get the players - and if you're right we can't, because nobody's coming here that has the cachet of a Calhoun and Pitino - how do you win? You have to run a system that doesn't require A list talent. (Like eg Beilein or Buzz Williams.) Which was Norm's problem - his system required B list players like Boothe, Kennedy and Horne to make A-list plays every night. So the best thing SJ can do is an X and O guy who's an above average recruiter which will result in a mid pack finish every year with a run every once in a while. It's too bad Louie's so old, he'd be perfect.

Quote from: Dave on March 11, 2010, 12:29:33 PM

Are you done girls? haha.

Seriously though back to topic. I do believe Norm has risen this program from the depths however he's incapable of bringing it to the "next" level. How many of these coaching candidates are capable of bringing the program even further?

The Big East isn't the MAC, MAAC, CAA, A-10 or any other conference in America. It's brutal to recruit here. Seriously my theory has always been you have Calhoun, Pitino, Boheim, and Norm Roberts in your living room rank those 1-4 of the chances that guy gets the recruit. Do any of the candidates mentioned change that order?

So assuming you can't get the players - and if you're right we can't, because nobody's coming here that has the cachet of a Calhoun and Pitino - how do you win? You have to run a system that doesn't require A list talent. (Like eg Beilein or Buzz Williams.) Which was Norm's problem - his system required B list players like Boothe, Kennedy and Horne to make A-list plays every night. So the best thing SJ can do is an X and O guy who's an above average recruiter which will result in a mid pack finish every year with a run every once in a while. It's too bad Louie's so old, he'd be perfect.

You're right. Ideally the candidates that I'd like are unlikely to ever come here. I don't see Pecora, Greenberg, or Baron being that X/O guy. Mccaffrey could be though.

Its too bad we didn't jump on a guy like Sean Miller last year. He's a real up and comer guy who had real success and made himself into a name.

Quote from: Dave on March 11, 2010, 12:29:33 PM

Are you done girls? haha.

Seriously though back to topic. I do believe Norm has risen this program from the depths however he's incapable of bringing it to the "next" level. How many of these coaching candidates are capable of bringing the program even further?

The Big East isn't the MAC, MAAC, CAA, A-10 or any other conference in America. It's brutal to recruit here. Seriously my theory has always been you have Calhoun, Pitino, Boheim, and Norm Roberts in your living room rank those 1-4 of the chances that guy gets the recruit. Do any of the candidates mentioned change that order?

So assuming you can't get the players - and if you're right we can't, because nobody's coming here that has the cachet of a Calhoun and Pitino - how do you win? You have to run a system that doesn't require A list talent. (Like eg Beilein or Buzz Williams.) Which was Norm's problem - his system required B list players like Boothe, Kennedy and Horne to make A-list plays every night. So the best thing SJ can do is an X and O guy who's an above average recruiter which will result in a mid pack finish every year with a run every once in a while. It's too bad Louie's so old, he'd be perfect.

This has been my thought for years. Mckillop is to old now but if he was hired when Norm got the job we would be in much better shape right now.

You're right. Ideally the candidates that I'd like are unlikely to ever come here. I don't see Pecora, Greenberg, or Baron being that X/O guy. Mccaffrey could be though.

Its too bad we didn't jump on a guy like Sean Miller last year. He's a real up and comer guy who had real success and made himself into a name.

I think you undersell Greenberg's x/o ability.  I think it's the one thing he has; he doesn't recruit top-line players for his league, but he runs a forward-friendly system.

Additionally, I hope that anyone who is hot on the Pecora idea in the media or in the group of decision-makers takes a look at his team's shooting percentages... that's a lateral move.

Agree with Peter on Greenberg, very crafty coach and capable of handling media. His brother Brad is a highly respected former NBA exec, who has mentored younger brother. I think Greenberg is a competitive guy who promotes a nice style of play appealing to kids. That said, he will need a Kimani type NY guy to help with recruiting. I feel getting Greenberg is an upgrade.

Quote from: Dave on March 11, 2010, 12:49:59 PM

You're right. Ideally the candidates that I'd like are unlikely to ever come here. I don't see Pecora, Greenberg, or Baron being that X/O guy. Mccaffrey could be though.

Its too bad we didn't jump on a guy like Sean Miller last year. He's a real up and comer guy who had real success and made himself into a name.

I think you undersell Greenberg's x/o ability.  I think it's the one thing he has; he doesn't recruit top-line players for his league, but he runs a forward-friendly system.

Additionally, I hope that anyone who is hot on the Pecora idea in the media or in the group of decision-makers takes a look at his team's shooting percentages... that's a lateral move.

Do you agree/disagree with my assessment of his forward friendly offense being just as ugly as Norm's guard friendly offense?

Quote from: peter on March 11, 2010, 02:12:55 PM

I think you undersell Greenberg's x/o ability.  I think it's the one thing he has; he doesn't recruit top-line players for his league, but he runs a forward-friendly system.

Additionally, I hope that anyone who is hot on the Pecora idea in the media or in the group of decision-makers takes a look at his team's shooting percentages... that's a lateral move.

Do you agree/disagree with my assessment of his forward friendly offense being just as ugly as Norm's guard friendly offense?

Disagree, I think.  Greenberg's teams never have that look of "oh shhhht what do I do with this Orange Roundy in my hands?!"  They pass decently, shoot decently.  It looks like hard physical combat and sometimes they miss their shots, but it doesn't have the look of desperation heaves the team saw with Geno at the end of the shot clock. 

In my opinion.

I haven't watched a whole lot of Tech because I do find them kind of boring.  If I'm watching ACC ball, I'll tend to watch Maryland or Wake (teams I've liked for a number of years now) or Clemson or Duke.

Quote from: Dave on March 11, 2010, 03:28:51 PM

Quote from: peter on March 11, 2010, 02:12:55 PM

I think you undersell Greenberg's x/o ability.  I think it's the one thing he has; he doesn't recruit top-line players for his league, but he runs a forward-friendly system.

Additionally, I hope that anyone who is hot on the Pecora idea in the media or in the group of decision-makers takes a look at his team's shooting percentages... that's a lateral move.

Do you agree/disagree with my assessment of his forward friendly offense being just as ugly as Norm's guard friendly offense?

Disagree, I think.  Greenberg's teams never have that look of "oh shhhht what do I do with this Orange Roundy in my hands?!"  They pass decently, shoot decently.  It looks like hard physical combat and sometimes they miss their shots, but it doesn't have the look of desperation heaves the team saw with Geno at the end of the shot clock. 

In my opinion.

I haven't watched a whole lot of Tech because I do find them kind of boring.  If I'm watching ACC ball, I'll tend to watch Maryland or Wake (teams I've liked for a number of years now) or Clemson or Duke.

Fair enough. I can see your point between the differences. Do you think our current roster could fit his style of play?

Quote from: Dave on March 11, 2010, 03:28:51 PM

Quote from: peter on March 11, 2010, 02:12:55 PM

I think you undersell Greenberg's x/o ability.  I think it's the one thing he has; he doesn't recruit top-line players for his league, but he runs a forward-friendly system.

Additionally, I hope that anyone who is hot on the Pecora idea in the media or in the group of decision-makers takes a look at his team's shooting percentages... that's a lateral move.

Do you agree/disagree with my assessment of his forward friendly offense being just as ugly as Norm's guard friendly offense?

Disagree, I think.  Greenberg's teams never have that look of "oh shhhht what do I do with this Orange Roundy in my hands?!"  They pass decently, shoot decently.  It looks like hard physical combat and sometimes they miss their shots, but it doesn't have the look of desperation heaves the team saw with Geno at the end of the shot clock. 

In my opinion.

I haven't watched a whole lot of Tech because I do find them kind of boring.  If I'm watching ACC ball, I'll tend to watch Maryland or Wake (teams I've liked for a number of years now) or Clemson or Duke.

I think this might be the first time I have agreed totally with one of your posts. BTW you seem a lot smarter whilst agreeing with me

I think this might be the first time I have agreed totally with one of your posts. BTW you seem a lot smarter whilst agreeing with me

Let me change what I wrote then!

Fair enough. I can see your point between the differences. Do you think our current roster could fit his style of play?

You know... I think so, but I haven't watched them closely enough.  I know his forwards seem to shoot and drive, so Evans (if he shores up that dribble), Burrell (if he shores up that dribble), and Brownlee (if he stops taking his first shot like a dude who just got into a playground game) should fit.  but Malcolm Delaney gets the ball a LOT as point guard. And before him AD Vassallo - a bigger version of DJ Kennedy - got the rock a lot.  So, sure, our guys could fit.  I also think there have been adjustments for Greenberg's alpha dog players - Deron Washington, then Vasallo, then Delaney.

Quote from: we are sju on March 11, 2010, 04:14:55 PM

I think this might be the first time I have agreed totally with one of your posts. BTW you seem a lot smarter whilst agreeing with me

Let me change what I wrote then!

Quote from: Dave on March 11, 2010, 04:05:47 PM

Fair enough. I can see your point between the differences. Do you think our current roster could fit his style of play?

You know... I think so, but I haven't watched them closely enough.  I know his forwards seem to shoot and drive, so Evans (if he shores up that dribble), Burrell (if he shores up that dribble), and Brownlee (if he stops taking his first shot like a dude who just got into a playground game) should fit.  but Malcolm Delaney gets the ball a LOT as point guard. And before him AD Vassallo - a bigger version of DJ Kennedy - got the rock a lot.  So, sure, our guys could fit.  I also think there have been adjustments for Greenberg's alpha dog players - Deron Washington, then Vasallo, then Delaney.

Greenberg win with those players?

Quote from: we are sju on March 11, 2010, 04:14:55 PM

I think this might be the first time I have agreed totally with one of your posts. BTW you seem a lot smarter whilst agreeing with me

Let me change what I wrote then!

Quote from: Dave on March 11, 2010, 04:05:47 PM

Fair enough. I can see your point between the differences. Do you think our current roster could fit his style of play?

You know... I think so, but I haven't watched them closely enough.  I know his forwards seem to shoot and drive, so Evans (if he shores up that dribble), Burrell (if he shores up that dribble), and Brownlee (if he stops taking his first shot like a dude who just got into a playground game) should fit.  but Malcolm Delaney gets the ball a LOT as point guard. And before him AD Vassallo - a bigger version of DJ Kennedy - got the rock a lot.  So, sure, our guys could fit.  I also think there have been adjustments for Greenberg's alpha dog players - Deron Washington, then Vasallo, then Delaney.

Evans will never be able to dribble.  Simple as that.