Would St. John's made Lance/Landesberg 1st round picks?

what could have been?

if lavin and his great staff were here when they signed on...i'd say yes.

norm and company really didn't improve anyone enough to warrant an nba look.  in fact, cedric jackson benefitted by going elsewhere.

if you mean would nyc exposure have made a difference...no way.

Landesberg might have done well had he been close to home, Lance not so much

Def not with Norm

 Not a chance.  Who would be their coach, Norm?  This is laughable.

Well I don't think Landesberg would have failed out of St. John's with our excellent academic support team and also Norm did do a great job of keeping his players in line. Lets give some credit where its due.

As for Lance he probably would have been more of a focal point in our offense and I think our team was better than Cincy's especially in terms of distribution.

This is just a ridiculous thread. One could also argue that lance would have been horrible and the team would have mutinied aaginst him bc he would have been terribly selfish and unbearable in his hometown. And sylven may have stayed in school but done much worse than he did at uva.

I have a feeling that uva provides pretty damn good academic services to its athletes.  Call me crazy.

This is just a ridiculous thread. One could also argue that lance would have been horrible and the team would have mutinied aaginst him bc he would have been terribly selfish and unbearable in his hometown. And sylven may have stayed in school but done much worse than he did at uva.

I have a feeling that uva provides pretty damn good academic services to its athletes.  Call me crazy.

Maybe he had a lil too much freedom when he left home. Happens to the best of us.

True baldi, and maybe if he was at home he wouldn't have had enough and acted out differently.

All I know is both guys made very poor decisions and I see no reason to believe that they 1) would not have made these poor decisions here, and 2) norm would have elevated them to first round status on top of that.

True baldi, and maybe if he was at home he wouldn't have had enough and acted out differently.

All I know is both guys made very poor decisions and I see no reason to believe that they 1) would not have made these poor decisions here, and 2) norm would have elevated them to first round status on top of that.

But maybe had Landesberg stayed home, he would be around for 2 more years

That goes back to the academics.  If you are gonna slack off at uva, what makes u think he'll try enough at st johns?

Even elite institutions like uva don't make it terribly difficult for their athletes to pass. Sounds like to me it was something to do with sylven than uva's hard classes.

This is just a ridiculous thread. One could also argue that lance would have been horrible and the team would have mutinied aaginst him bc he would have been terribly selfish and unbearable in his hometown. And sylven may have stayed in school but done much worse than he did at uva.

I have a feeling that uva provides pretty damn good academic services to its athletes.  Call me crazy.

So argue that then! I posed a question you can certainly voice your opinion either way regarding it. Obviously you think they wouldn't have done as well or any better. Don't make it out to seem the "thread is ridiculous" just post your opinion which may differ from others. We're losing sight of that lately here and I don't like it.

I have argued it.  Already.  Where's your rebuttal?  You really holding your hat on our adademic assistance over the university of virginia's?  What about the coaching aspect?

This is a tough argument. It's not like Norm Roberts had a prospect ranked as high as Lance Stephenson.
In his 6 years here, only Justin Burrell was a top 100 recruit. Others were on the brink, but with only one legit
player to compare, how can we say that Stephenson or Landesberg wouldn't have done better here?

As far as I'm concerned, SJU was about as good as Cinci last year, and easily better than UVA.

Add another guy who can play, and everyone improves.

It's very hard to find NBA talent on a bad team. If Landesberg and Stephenson were really THAT good, their teams would have made a dance. End of story.

Probably not.  Maybe Syl gets a little more press clippings/attention if he's the guy that stays home and does well.  Probably wouldn't help a lot but maybe a little.  As mentioned before maybe he keeps his head in the books a little more if his family is close. 

Lance I would say no.  I can't imagine his play being much different than what it was on Cincinnati.  The talent level on both teams was similar and both coaches seem to lack offensive ingenuity.  Just due to Lance's public perceptions I think the press clippings/attention could've been a negative.

If it wasn't for Lance we wouldn't have beaten Cinci last year. Maybe the real question to ask is what would the Bearcats have looked like if they never got him?

Probably not.  Maybe Syl gets a little more press clippings/attention if he's the guy that stays home and does well.  Probably wouldn't help a lot but maybe a little.  As mentioned before maybe he keeps his head in the books a little more if his family is close. 

Lance I would say no.  I can't imagine his play being much different than what it was on Cincinnati.  The talent level on both teams was similar and both coaches seem to lack offensive ingenuity.  Just due to Lance's public perceptions I think the press clippings/attention could've been a negative.

I think that's a fair assessment.  I also think Lance would have tried to press "being the man" too much if he stayed in NYC.  Landesberg I guess it all comes down to the academics, and that's a crapshoot whether it would have bene different without knowing specifically what went wrong.  Though, I wonder if he wouldn't have played as well.  who knows.  Now had they came and then NOT left early, and then Lavs came in...well...then maybe theyd have a shot...i have total faith in lavin.

You can make the argument that either player would be better off with St. John's.  Yeah, they could be worse off, but consider the following:

As I understand it, Landesberg got in trouble because he flunked A class.  Not all of his classes, an art class.  It seems he had his mind set on going pro in this year.  So I'll say his academic acumen/ homework help isn't axctually that much of an issue.  You have to try to flunk classes like that.

OR he didn't like playing in Tony Bennett's structured style, which I believe was rumored.  So who knows if Syl would have left after his second year?  Maybe he would have stayed for a third; it also depends on what his role was.  If Syl were in NYC, this team would be different, as well.  Would Norm have brought in Dwight Hardy?  Who knows.  How would Syl - a player who used a lot of possessions - play with DJ Kennedy, who uses fewer but does dominate the action? 

For all we know, Syl could have put up better numbers (he played fewer minutes per game in his second year - 32 vs 34) with St. John's.  With Boothe's injuries and lack of scoring punch, Landesberg might just have had a chance to prove he is a big point guard.  In this draft, that might get him a second round pick, though his shooting inside the arc is mediocre.

As for Lance, I am STRONGLY of the opinion that Cincinnati was one of the worst choices he could make.  But he still got drafted in the 2nd round (I don't think he had the athleticism or the shot to be a 1st round pick. If 1 of those aspects was better, maybe. But the dude shot 22% from the outside, and his free throw rate was unimpressive).  And I think he has a chance to stick. 

But if he was at St. John's, who knows?  He could have flamed out in an ego-driven entourage explosion; he could have poisoned the team chemistry.  You know, he could have been Omar Cook, also drafted in the early 2nd round and had no outside shot to speak of.  He'd have to live up to great expectations.  But you know what?  Lance is a volume scorer.  And he went to a team with a mediocre volume scorer in Deonta Vaughn, and a forward who takes a lot of shots in Yancy Gates. 

For a guy like Lance, that is a bad, bad, idea.  You have three guys who aren't sure what to do if they're not scoring.  So someone's going to get pissy taking a back seat.  It doesn't often work.  If Lance was on St. John's, he'd take all the shots he wanted to; one thing about the Red Storm team we've seen for the last 3 years is that they don't really have a go-to guy.  DJ Kennedy does it because he's "big play", and D-Buckets is the closest thing the team has to a scoring star.  But there is no bonafide star, just complementary players. 

On the court, at least, I think Lance would have had a chance to put up big numbers.  St. John's could have been good for him.  I don't think he would have been good for St. John's in terms of wins, turnovers, ball movement, chemistry, distraction...

Great thread.  Interesting arguments made for both sides.  While, obviously, there are no definitive answers, the debate is what these boards are all about.

I think Landesberg would have had a better career here.  He also would have helped make us a better team the past two years.  Lance probably did well by not staying in NY.  However, Cinci was a bat choice (maybe he had no better choice in the end).  He got less coaching from Mick Cronin than he would have gotten from Norm.